Lost My Job - Feeling E36 M3ty and Worthless

Quasi Mofo wrote: As an aside, what about looking int being a rep for the brewing component industry? Use your skill set to sell the wares the common man or microbrewery would need to make a good chug. Even set up yourself as a distributor and start small making it bigger when you can. Focus on quality information and premium products but keep an eye towards the DIY guy, making them feel better. A quality web site and a good Google/Facebook/Twitter/Colbert Bump would get you heading the right way ;)

That is absolutely on the table. Equipment, materials, things like that.

I know absolutely nothing about starting a small business distributing these sorts of things though.

I'm sorry to hear that. If you want to give technical writing a try, there's two good books you might want to get a copy of - The Well Fed Writer and Make a Real Living as a Freelance Writer. The first is more for corporate contract work, the second for magazine articles and the like. So they'll each give you a good picture of two very different sections of the business.

Whatever you chose to pursue next, good luck.

Having worked as 'head mash-tun scraper' at a small local brewery for several months, I can see how the details you miss could be a really big deal in a production environment. What I'd suggest though is looking a little lower in the brewery food-chain and figuring out how to fix your detail issue.

The brewery I worked at was just scraping by, barely managing to pay bills, retreating on its territory. But having an energetic kid come in who swept out the nasty corners of the brewery, watched the kettle like a hawk (because there was absolutely nothing else to do), fretted over every little detail (because there was plenty of time due to low volume), that really kicked the owner's keister. I had to leave and get a 'real' job, but the next intern they hired, right out of brewing school, did more of the same and turned that place into a local powerhouse.

Pause, take a moment to reflect on the 'why' and how you might address it (including by getting your potential ADHD checked out), then jump back in again. Your skill set is incredibly valuable - sometimes I wish I had it. You've worked at some awesome, name-recognized places. But those are (IIRC) real, 24x7 operations with different pressures from your local, brew 15bbl 2x a week type operations. You might need to work really cheap, or maybe buy into the operation, but don't give up on your dream yet...

Beer Baron wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: I'd be good at technical writing, but have no idea how to break into that field.

You have an English degree, correct? That along with your hands-on car experience will get you an interview. Write a few sample procedures, like how to change the brake pads on a Spec 944. I'd be glad to provide any assistance in that dept that I can. However, if you aren't detail oriented, you won't make it as a Technical Writer either. I've been doing it for 7 years. I'm in a slightly different position from most Tech Writers (most tech writers do Online Help, web stuff......software). I write for products that go on heavy equipment, so there is a large liability factor to what I do as well.

I don't know how to explain it about being "detail oriented" or not. I understand and can break down and explain fine details. I can order my thoughts and explain procedures step-by-step. What I'm not good at doing is noticing that I missed cleaning that spot in the hard-to-see part of the kettle, or remembering that I left that CO2 valve open. I'm not good at keeping dates and times organized. I can identify all the little details, I just can't keep track of them all. Now, you know the job better than me. There is usually a lot more involved in a profession than the obvious thing (when I was a teacher, I was good at planning lessons, engaging students, and teaching classes... but I wasn't good at the administration or patience of being a gradeschool teacher).

Sounds like it's an organization issue. That can be overcome.

Tech Writing is a great career to get into and it's growing. More companies are starting to realize the value in good documentation, and in some cases are being required to do it for legal reasons (IT/Business practices for public companies for example).

If you're good at it, you can make a quiet comfortable living for yourself.

In reply to peter:

Yes. I understand very well why the details I miss can be a big deal. I totally understand what their issues were. I'm not giving up no the brewing industry yet, more soul searching to decide if I can train myself to focus better and amend some of my ways, or if I am better off aiming my attention towards the more interpersonal aspects of the industry.

I have connections to several other smaller, newer breweries that are still figuring stuff out. One wants me to come in and brew some pilot test batches, the other I talked to a while back stated flat out that he wished I'd contacted him when I was job hunting in the area.

Make sure there isn't market saturation. Talk to the locals in, say a three hour radius (Making a realistic sales territory is key) If they are all serviced by "Johnny CheapVat" ask them how he does as a rep? how is he priced? what components is he selling? how much are they buying from alternate distributors? is it easier to buy on line? etc... Do it FACE TO FACE. Be in a respectful Polo and Chinos, be professional and know your script. Explain that you are NOT selling them something, but you are very interested in helping improve customer service if you have the opportunity. Talk to the Owners, Managers, the Brewers and the Bartenders and get a feel for that side of the bar. Do what YOU do and talk beer.

Some people have a hard time learning new things, and it might take them twice the amount of time to understand a process, but once they do, they can turn their mind off and churn through large quantities of really mundane tasks. They can do this hour after hour, day after day, year after year.

Until a change comes along. Then they are thrown off.

Eventually, something big happens, this "routine oriented" person is asked to move into a management position, or worse, asked to use a computer. Technology changes, and they can't keep up.

Then there are others, those who never can get down a routine, but are quick learners. I'm one of them. I'm good in an environment that's always changing. I like to master stuff before I move onto the next thing, but change along the way doesn't bother me, in fact, I'd say I thrive in it.

One thing I've noticed is that I never get bored with driving. Actually, I get mentally worn out. I'm so involved that after driving for a few hours I need to watch tv or just stare into space because I've spent the last 5 hours watching for cops, preparing for turns, looking ahead at traffic patterns, and enjoying the new and different scenery. I think this is why I love the internet, it's always changing and I'm in control.

I don't get bored with my partner, I don't get bored with my house. I don't get bored with my friends or life in general but in a confined work environment I start to grow careless as routine sets in.

Beer is production, but you sound like more of a marketing or "tester" type. An environment where you can try new things, experiment, meet new people, be challenged in the variety, not in the routine.

I understand what you're going through and it sucks. There are times where I can hyper-focus and kick out major amount of really quality, detailed work. Other times I can't remember if I fed the cats. Its irritating. Definitely time to step back a little and find a role that you'd like to do that fits your personality and mental make-up. Perhaps focusing more on the the creative side of the brewing world would be better for your focus? I like the idea of selling supplies, etc. to the brewers or the kegerators, etc. Honestly, even being a delivery driver can be a perfectly satisfying job as long as you can still pursue things you enjoy in your downtime.

Keep you head up and keep us in the loop and we'll use the collective to help you help yourself. That's what we're here for :) That and post-whoring.

• Interpersonal
• You like and have knowledge about beer

Sounds like you need to work as a bartender of some sort. Maybe hit up a bar that has a ton of craft and microbrews. Put that education to work.

That or you could be the guy working the beer garden at a craft or local brewery. That guy has to talk, be nice, and deal with the drinkers on a regular basis.

This isn't an end...it's a beginning. You got his man!

Beer Baron wrote: I can identify all the little details, I just can't keep track of them all.

I have the same problems. Several time I left the front door to our business unlocked, all night. Fortunately nothing ever happened, but now I always check the doors - every single time I leave - even if I * know* I just locked them.

Lists, reminders, routines, and always place things in the same location. That would help you a bunch, regardless of whether you have ADHD or not.

It's been covered already but another voice in the mix. I am very much like you, I can get into the little stuff and details but I can't remember to eat lunch. It is an organizational issue. I won't say I've overcome it but we live in a wonderful age of technology where we can have pocket gadgets to help us stay organized. Get a good smart phone or tablet and note EVERYTHING. Create reminders religiously and admit to yourself no matter how smart you are and how easy something seems to remember you just won't and you need to take notes.

I work with a few good people who early on realized this trait in me before I admitted my shortcomings to myself and got an electronic crutch. The one person would look at me in a meeting and call me out (in a friendly way) "Jim, you didn't note that down, you won't remember it after the meeting" She finally got to the point where she would take notes for me during the meeting just to ensure I did the things she needed. Her extra effort really woke me up to admit I can't and won't remember things. So now everything goes on my calender with a reminder. Example, in a meeting yesterday, I was asked to follow up with someone about a minor item after the meeting. I knew I'd see him right after the meeting. As it turns out I didn't see him after the meeting but I had already put a note on my calender to follow up with him this morning. Of course I didn't remember to but a reminder popped up at 9am and I was able to contact him.

This disorganization is often a sign of a very creative person, with your skills and creativity I have to imagine there is an excellent fit for you in brewing in being that mad scientist who comes up with the next best thing. Small batches to develop new brews, let someone else do the production.

Maybe being in production is too small for you. You've created your own brews that got you into programs in Germany. Maybe you should have your own pub - bring in the brews you like and/or sell your own. So your time goes to finding investors. You've gotten interviews and jobs - so people are willing to invest in you... One of my nurses is a part-owner/investor in a brew-pub in Austin, TX. It can be done.

Best wishes for ya!

oldtin wrote: Maybe being in production is too small for you. You've created your own brews that got you into programs in Germany. Maybe you should have your own pub - bring in the brews you like and/or sell your own. So your time goes to finding investors. You've gotten interviews and jobs - so people are willing to invest in you... One of my nurses is a part-owner/investor in a brew-pub in Austin, TX. It can be done.

I am not opposed to this idea. I've heard numerous comments that there really aren't any good beer bars around here. The idea of putting together a business plan and gathering investors is totally new to me though. I wouldn't know where the heck to start.

Beer Baron wrote:

oldtin wrote: Maybe being in production is too small for you. You've created your own brews that got you into programs in Germany. Maybe you should have your own pub - bring in the brews you like and/or sell your own. So your time goes to finding investors. You've gotten interviews and jobs - so people are willing to invest in you... One of my nurses is a part-owner/investor in a brew-pub in Austin, TX. It can be done.

I am not opposed to this idea. I've heard numerous comments that there really aren't any good beer bars around here. The idea of putting together a business plan and gathering investors is totally new to me though. I wouldn't know where the heck to start.

Pssh, time to look into some of the online resources available for small businesses and look into your local small business groups and chambers to get some networking going.

You'll need to get a business plan together after doing some research on the requirements to start a bar there and it would help to look around at what is available already for bars, etc.

Once the business plan is together and you have some contacts to help you get along, you can go to the bank and look at getting a small business loan. Heck you might even find a local venture capitalist at one of the local business groups who might help you as well.

turboswede wrote:

Beer Baron wrote:

oldtin wrote: Maybe being in production is too small for you. You've created your own brews that got you into programs in Germany. Maybe you should have your own pub - bring in the brews you like and/or sell your own. So your time goes to finding investors. You've gotten interviews and jobs - so people are willing to invest in you... One of my nurses is a part-owner/investor in a brew-pub in Austin, TX. It can be done.

I am not opposed to this idea. I've heard numerous comments that there really aren't any good beer bars around here. The idea of putting together a business plan and gathering investors is totally new to me though. I wouldn't know where the heck to start.

Pssh, time to look into some of the online resources available for small businesses and look into your local small business groups and chambers to get some networking going. You'll need to get a business plan together after doing some research on the requirements to start a bar there and it would help to look around at what is available already for bars, etc. Once the business plan is together and you have some contacts to help you get along, you can go to the bank and look at getting a small business loan. Heck you might even find a local venture capitalist at one of the local business groups who might help you as well.

In Charleston, SC I went into a beer shop. All they specialized in was suds from around the world. Even had tastings of stuff brewed for them.

Don't know how that would fly where you are but that is an idea.

Sucks about your situation, sorry.

Beer Baron wrote: After pouring a lot of time money and energy into becoming a brewer, I was fired yesterday.

well, crap. That sucks. I won't go into the platitudes of "it gets better" I'll just empathize with your suckitude. Its a real word.

I wish I could offer some networking prospects for you, but as you probably remember, I'm a 40-year-old unemployed divorcee who lives with his parents. All I can offer is the knowledge that I'm sending good energy your way.

Sorry to hear about this. Like ECM says, someone realizing they have made a mistake is often the spur they need to make a change. It doesn't mean you have to give up on the idea of doing what you obviously love, it means giving yourself the tools you need to get things rolling in the proper direction. As an example, I know techs who will carry a small 'paint pen' or a roll of tape that they use to mark where they stopped. That way they don't miss something important, and learning to do that kind of thing usually comes from making a mistake!

Saw this on FB.

Sorry to hear about it. :(

Many have chimed in with their experiences and advice about managing your personality strengths and weaknesses and it's a lot of good advice. I'll add my own experience as someone with a creative mind, detail oriented personality, and ADHD issues. First, the advice about developing coping methods with or without medication is spot on. Second, my job requires creative problem solving, but is primarily a production position creating industry specific construction/bid drawings. The production end can be a grind when trying to just churn out a set, but I came to accept that there was no magic bullet like a work method or medication to make it easier. It just takes discipline to make yourself grind out the painfully boring tasks. The more you can push yourself to, the more it'll become somewhat habit, so that helps.

I think it's great that you're prepared to take a long look at where you've been and what your options are for where you want to go from here. I wonder if getting in with the smaller brew orgs might be the best option to keep you in the industry and a paycheck coming in for now. Even part time, it'll feel good to have schedule work and a paycheck coming in, whatever it is. It may be that part of your long term goals involves the effort of making yourself churn through more time spent in a production environment so as to draw on the experience later. I don't remember what you mentioned in the thread before moving, but what sort of habits or methods have you tried for improving your mindfulness while production brewing? I would imagine things like notes in a phone won't work in that environment, but have you tried your own small, personal checklist you can keep in a pocket? I'm thinking like an index card laminated over the list w/ clear packing tape to keep it from disintegrating.

Whatever you decide to pursue, we'll be here to cheer you on :)

oldtin wrote: Maybe being in production is too small for you. You've created your own brews that got you into programs in Germany. Maybe you should have your own pub - bring in the brews you like and/or sell your own. So your time goes to finding investors. You've gotten interviews and jobs - so people are willing to invest in you... One of my nurses is a part-owner/investor in a brew-pub in Austin, TX. It can be done.

It seems (to me) like going from being let go for not being thorough/ detail oriented enough at two different companies to starting your own business from the ground up would be a bad idea. I'm all for starting over and trying new things, but there are a lot of boring detail oriented tasks involved in running a small business too. I don't want to rain on the parade here, but this just seems like a recipe for disaster. Now going to work for someone else in a different role involving beer is something I can get behind.

I'm kinda with Cotton on that, I can go from hyper focused to incredibly scatter brained within a half second and (as the former owner of a couple of businesses) I can tell you that's going to take a hell of a lot of work to overcome. In my case, I also can get massively stressed out when I overlook or misplace things because of the scatterbrainedness.

My coping mechanism is similar to JThw8's, I write down the important stuff (or check lists if I need them) and leave myself notes in places where I have to deal with them. In my case, that either means on a smartphone with a reminder, or on a notepad on my keyboard.

For certain types of work, maybe write yourself the equivalent of a pre-flight checklist and check off every item.

Either way, I think in your situation I'd talk to the brewery that wants to have you brew some test batches. I think at this point it's worth focusing on a single type of work, I doubt you're making things better if you go jump into different jobs.

I feel for you. One thing I do to overcome "detail forgetfulness" is take a LOT of notes, about everything. I carry a notebook everywhere as my job always has a million things to do at once. If I didn't stay organized in this way, I'd never make it. It helps to have notes to refer to as well.

Of course myself and 93EXCivic (we work for the same company) are both being phased out in the next couple of months, so I'm also going to be in the job market soon enough. I understand a little about where you are coming from, but did have some advanced notice.

Hopefully everything works out for the better, but it does suck.

You say you've just vacated a job in the beer industry, and I'm trying to break into it.......... I sense opportunity!

Ok now that I'm done being an ass- have you thought about trying to get in with a brewpub or someplace similar? As you well know, craft beer has exploded. Guys who are as knowledgable about beer and its process are a hot commodity..... sort of a beer sommalier (sp?) if you will. You've mentioned you've got the sales skills- that can be doubly powerful for you. Side A- you're selling good beer to prospective clients at said pub. IE- what goes best with mac n cheez and cut up hotdogs, Schlitz or PBR (it's actually High Life).... and conversely, you're able to use those skills to lure hot beer commodities into said pub (Around here, before Surly could produce, bars were fighting to get it). Sounds like it might be fun to me. And you'd be able to use that technical skill writing to write the beer menu... it's win-win!

mndsm wrote: ...PBR (it's actually High Life)....

Wait what?