Low-grip tires?

Had a Saab Sonnet with Gislaved tires. Absolutely zero grip. My kids plastic big wheel tires had more stick. It was fun to drive that way, but once my wife spun it on an off ramp, they had to go.... and so did the car.

T.J. wrote: This thread makes me feel like I fell into a rabbit hole. Let me get this straight, the thread is about how to reduce grip, make a car handle poorly, and at the same time save money? Strange.

No this thread is about how to have the feeling of the car moving around under you at reasonable speeds on the road. The cars handling characteristics are the same as with better tires they just have lower limits.

I guess if after watching those videos and you still don't see the appeal you never will. Some just don't get it.

T.J. wrote: This thread makes me feel like I fell into a rabbit hole. Let me get this straight, the thread is about how to reduce grip, make a car handle poorly, and at the same time save money? Strange.

Whats the fun of a car that you cant even come close to really driving outside of a few times a year at the track?

A lot of the vintage sports cars we restore at work are ruined by modern sticky rubber. When you have something like a 70hp Alfa and you load it up with tire to the point that it cannot break loose they just feel dead and slow. Every bit of drama that made them fun in their day is gone.

A customer had us put 205/50-15 BFG's on his 1600 Fiat 124 spider last summer and it went from a nice little sportscar to dull and boring. I am sure it would have been faster on a timed track situation but attacking on ramps with zeal left everyone cold.

The biggest disappointment was in an early 60's Volvo 544. The guy who bought it from us took off the 155-15's and installed something in the 195 range and it went from a car that I never expected to be so fun, and was constantly raving about to just blah. It needed another 40hp to be as fun as it used to be. I swear the scandinavian flick was invented in a 544 with skinny all seasons.

In reply to nicksta43:

Really, I'm pretty pleased that the overwhelming majority here "gets it".

BTW, the James May video I linked was wrong , the segment I was thinking of is from Season 21, Ep. 4 and it doesn't seem to be available anywhere legal. The gist is that Caterham has made an 80 hp, skinny-tired version of the Super 7 and it looks awesome!

One of the most fun drives I took in my Miata was when it had 13" wheels and tires from a Tercel bolted on. They may only fit over the early 1.6L brakes but the 155 or 165 13s were a blast to hoon around on.

Whatever is on the FRS?

I did a slalom with them, and they were not THAT bad. Certainly not Spin at every roundabout" slippy as Mr clarkson imtimates.

I would imagine that just about any tire that Canadian tire sells would have less grip in any condition than the FRS stock tires.

In reply to Nitroracer:

Yeah, my understanding is that 13" wheels are a "maybe, but probably not" on the NB due to caliper clearance. Bummer.

NOHOME wrote: Whatever is on the FRS?

I didn't find the FR-S tires in a convenient size for the Miata, also they are Michelins and therefore probably fairly pricey. And yeah, Mr. Clarkson is somewhat prone to hyperbole.

In reply to ShadowSix:

I was having this exact conversation with a buddy the other day. He just couldn't wrap his head around it. I showed him the Chris Harris video of the Merc and his test of the gt86 as well as the top gear clip from the gt86 test. He still contends that any car will be better with star specs no matter what. We went round and round for hours over it. He just can't understand the concept. So yes, the majority do get it but some don't.

ShadowSix wrote: The gist is that Caterham has made an 80 hp, skinny-tired version of the Super 7 and it looks awesome!

Well, seeing as the 7 started out as a 40hp car with super skinny tires, that would make sense.

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to Nitroracer: Yeah, my understanding is that 13" wheels are a "maybe, but probably not" on the NB due to caliper clearance. Bummer.

320iS BBS/Mahle wheels had enough caliper clearance on my '95 R-package with a 5mm spacer.

In reply to Ditchdigger:

One of my college buddies had a restored P1800 with period-correct Pirellis (cinturato ca67?) and it was ridiculous how much fun and how tossable yet controllable that car was!

The FR-S comes with Michelin Primacy HP (for High Performance!) but sizes are limited and as ShadowSix said, they are pricey compared to some others.

I don't get this. Does fun not come until you are near the limit of grip? Can you not have fun on tires that aren't awful?

IF I were to purchase tires to goof off with on the street at all, I'd want to be as far from the grip limit as possible so that I had some extra safety factor in case I needed to suddenly avoid something or slam on the brakes. Also, I'd want to have traction in the rain.

Hooning on a closed course is a different story.

It's about slip angle. Good tires typically have a very small slip angle while a tire with less rubber on the road will have a larger slip angle. Which in my experience typically means a much more progressive approach to the limit of adhesion along with being very audible. I would take that any day on the road over a tire that grips and grips and grips then lets go suddenly and only after your going way to fast for the open road.

Obviously a junk compound is not good for anything and I'm certainly not advocating that.

When it is wet, the traction control stays on. The FRS IS as slippy as Mr Clarkson says it if there is any moisture present.

My next set of tires will be rivals or whatever the flavour du jour is when the time comes.

In reply to NOHOME:

Two questions

Is this your daily driver?

What size wheels do they come with?

Anything by Triangle (a geometric shape that doesn't even roll) or Negotiator. 80k tread life warranty.

Knock yourself out.

nicksta43 wrote: In reply to NOHOME: Two questions Is this your daily driver?

Yep. This is the 4 season toaster that gets me to work and does everything else from grocery getting to hauling metal from the metal-supermarket to my shop so I can make scrap metal! It makes a fair pick-up truck in that you can get more "stuff" in the back than you can people.

nicksta43 wrote: What size wheels do they come with?

They are 17" by 215 wide if memory serves.

Here's another question. The car is going to be a second car, mostly for fun use not commuting. Am I better of getting really skinny tires from a decent name brand, or OEM-ish width tires from an unknown brand but with an 80k mile tread life warranty?

My gut feeling is to go narrow and name-brand because narrow seems like it'd be better in the rain and I don't really trust no-names when it comes to car parts.

I had a generic tire (goodride something or other IIRC) on the E21 previous to the Kumhos. The car would hydroplane in any kind of wet road at about 35mph even when new. They also wouldn't hold air and wore out very quickly. The Kumhos were just a huge improvement in every category especially in the wet. I'd stick to something that has decent reviews.

Narrow and name brand with an absurd TW would be my bet. Quality tires tend to have better rubber and tread pattern even when they lack absolute grip.