Market Research - Reply if you want to help shape the future of the auto industry

Hey everyone, I'm an automotive engineering student who hopes to start a new car company (I know it's a long shot, but it's worth a try). 

I was wondering what types of vehicles people are looking for in today's market. I've been asking around, and forums are a nice place to do it (I understand that people may be a bit skewed on here since it's about racing and such). Do you wish there were more practical sports cars? Wagons? Cheaper trucks? More interesting crossovers? Any input you have, I would like to hear!

My only requirement is that you suggest something that you would actually like to buy. I'm just a student trying to get a gauge of public interest, and given my situation, this is the best way to do it. 

Looking forward to your ideas. Don't be shy.

It's hard to imagine myself buying a new car, but the closest might be a cheap electric compact, something dirt cheap to get from A to B around town, not too much cargo capacity needed, almost an Aptera but maybe with a 4th wheel...could be the size of a Honda Fit. 40 miles of range would be plenty. Maybe I'm describing a Chevy Spark EV? Ok, so an even cheaper Chevy Spark EV with half the range Maybe a full-solar upper surface and an aero tail shape to make it a little more Aptera-like? (Edit: Was looking at some of my common routes and could probably use more like 50-60 miles range, so maybe the Spark EV isn't that excessive...)

I'd be very tempted to buy a Caterham Project V when it hits the market. Definitely won't be able to afford one new though.

The 5 cars I've purchased new in the last 15 years?

2010 MazdaSpeed3
2011 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X with the leather/Rockford Fosgate package
2013 base Mustang GT w/Track Pack
2015 Subaru BRZ Limited
2023 Subaru BRZ Limited (my current vehicle)

All but the truck were manuals. I wanted a Mustang GT Dark Horse with the handling pack when I ordered the '23 BRZ, but I can't afford a $70k vehicle.

I will say, I like our CX-5 so much I really like the idea of lowering it, putting some wider wheels, and the supercharger kit on it. The fiance has told me I'm not allowed to do any of those things.  

I also like the styling of the upcoming Rivian R3 Performance model. 

Very ambitious, I like it. Things I wish were more available on the market, that probably wouldn't ever sell-

full size trucks with manual transmission.

RWD, manual transmission, sedans and wagons

Build and sell the truck that we want, that is already made by Toyota, but they won't let us have.

I don't buy new cars because I can't afford one. Affordable may be the hardest niche to break into due to the massive volume, but it's a neglected area recently.

"Affordable" is the realm of used cars. 
 

As soon as the product catches on your stockholders will make sure the price goes up. 
 

Unless you are an altruistic billionaire who just wants to give his money away.

ddavidv said:

Build and sell the truck that we want, that is already made by Toyota, but they won't let us have.

This. I want a diesel hilux capable of towing 5k. I don't think it is too much to ask.

3/4 ton regular cab 8 foot bed 6 speed manual with a pre-emissions diesel - but with the 12" screen and nice interior that my new F150 has.

400 mile range off-roady EV (Wrangler, G Wagen, Discovery)

Depends on how many you intend to sell.  If you want to sell millions of cars a year, you need to have some SUV's mixed in (don't bother with trucks, that market is taken already).

If you want to sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles- specialize in something that unique, but realize that it will be really hard to break into the taxi or mail delivery market.  Cop cars are out, as they are just derivatives of cars US OEMs already make.

If you want to sell tens of thousands of cars, then you can make some green status symbol that can be super expensive to make- as big factories need to make ~200k a year to make money.

If you just want to sell thousands of cars, then you can almost hand make it, but at this volume, I would go EV, as the cost to certify crash is going to be enough to not add in emissions cert.

One hint, don't pretend to think you know more about making cars than current makers do.  The auto industry is probably the most competitive market on the planet, given the number of companies that make vehicles.  Not to say it's impossible, but almost all of the smart people who know how to make cars are already out there, and they know more than you do.  Engineer are constrained by financial people- which is why you see various compromises made in vehicles (design or quality or timing compromises).

In reply to alfadriver :

...and financial people are constrained by consumers. 😉

SV reX said:

In reply to alfadriver :

...and financial people are constrained by shareholders. 😉

This is why C-Suite directives are so frequently short sighted.

I thought the GRM answer to the original question is a RWD, manual, wagon that weighs less than 3k, can tow more than 5k, averages more than 30mpg, and costs less than $30k.

One more serious answer for me is basically just a BRZ or RX8 with a more economical and  reliable engine, and a sportier auto option.

Driven5 said:

SV reX said:

In reply to alfadriver :

...and financial people are constrained by shareholders. 😉

This is why C-Suite directives are so frequently short sighted.

 

I thought the GRM answer to the original question is a RWD, manual, wagon that weighs less than 3k, can tow more than 5k, averages more than 30mpg, and costs less than $30k.

One more serious answer for me is basically just a BRZ or RX8 with a more economical and  reliable engine, and a better auto option.

Exactly.  If it were all customers, then then plans would reflect that, as well as a majority of the compromises.  Like plans would be actionable for much longer than 5 years, since that's really how short it takes to clean paper design and develop a vehicle.  And that reliability concerns would be held in higher regard than a short term cheaper part.  Companies would actually stop spending billions to save millions.  They would spend millions to save billions.

It's a real problem in the auto industry, with how long it actually takes to make and develop entire cars.  And the latter is commonly seen by "newbies" as a core fault with companies- when everyone around the world shares the same constraints.

Less electronics. MUCH less. And we're too far along in the automotive industry for vehicles to rust at 4 years old.

I like wagons and lament how few there are.

 In cars and a number of other things, I keep hoping someone will differentiate themselves in product and marketing by selling the awesome luxury of something that works well and is made to keep working and to be repaired when it breaks.

 I'm coming off an experience with a modern luxury vehicle which was a nice place to sit, whose "features" were intrusive and degraded the driving experience, and whose reliability was terrible (and I can't help thinking that some of this was down to complexity of the features I didn't want, even if that was indirect; like cutting corners to help pay for them)

A good car at a reasonable price with solid basics and well considered options would be fantastic.

Jesse Ransom said:

A good car at a reasonable price with solid basics and well considered options would be fantastic.

The amount of resources it would take to build that car from scratch is rather staggering. From a business standpoint, it would never succeed from a brand new company. 
 

Then the return on that investment would be so very, very small. 

In reply to ddavidv :

There's a lot of trucks not seen here, crew car VW truck, El Camino & Rancheros etc.  

CCGuy, You've read about Preston Tucker, right?

Less electronics.  No information screen.  No lane departure warning.  No back up camera.  Manual trans a plus.  200 hp.  Cloth upholstery.   Power windows.  Manual seats.  (How often do you move your seat?) A clear, easy to read cluster.

Are you interested in designing / building the body and chassis ?

Or  could you buy a rolling "Skate" and just do the body/interior ?

Best wishes  and Good luck 

In reply to alfadriver :

I'm holding out hope that "it actually works all the time because we didn't add a ton of gadgetry and then build it to a price point below getting that right"  will become aspirational.

I agree it would be hard to sell the idea to investors, but I saw it literally come up as a serious headline in another area of tech...

Next-gen Wi-Fi to trade ludicrous speed for the boring art of actually working

https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/02/wifi_8_feature/

I often retell the story of Keith's wife's Tesla and his inability to prank her by setting the nav to Olive Garden because it seemed obvious to her that that's just the normal amount of broken.

Fewer features but correct function should be the new hotness. I don't care whether a startup or existing manufacturer moves first.

We are enthusiasts.

They don't listen to enthusiasts.

Never have.

How to make money as a startup auto company? Do what Malcolm Bricklin does/did. Well, except for that time he built his own car.

Import products already existing but with no presence.

Import. Sell. Go bankrupt. Vanish with the money. Repeat. 

He did it with Subaru 360s, his own car, Fiat sports cars 1983-1987, and the Yugo. Now, if you actually did it right, you may actually be successful over the long term. The Yugo was actually a good idea; he just chose the wrong product. Mahindra? Proton? Dacia? Suzuki? (Hey, you can't do a worse job than they did).

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

The funny thing about about electronics reliability is that cars are light years more than any personal device is.  Let alone they are massively robust- your car's electronics will work down to -20 and +150 when your personal device will shut down way within those limits.  

Car electronics are annoying, but as long as the vehicle gets you from A to B comfortably, customers are generally happy.  

As for the investment nature, the biggest pair of issue for the auto industry as an new investment- in profitable countries, the market is already saturated and there is a lot of competition.  Meaning it will be hard to actually be new enough with a product everyone wants with enough demand potential to justify the investment.  On top of all of that, the massive amount of money it takes to develop a vehicle for consumers.  Tesla had a huge amount of money that could be burned through to start, and they created a false perception of their product that made investors think they could make money.  Not many other companies can pull that off, even when their product is actually unique.

It's kind of funny that people are so bothered by the electronic features- most of which have been around a really long time- radio/entertainment, HVAC, and driver info.  And the newer features are not really new, too- hands free calling and nav systems have been around almost 20 years.  What people seem to miss are knobs, even if it's a digital knob that works through a computer to do it's job.

And then there are the drivers aids- we have a many threads about driverless cars and how they will transform society for the better due to safety, but implementation of features of that are just unneeded electronics.  (and I'll point out that some of the "new" drivers aids are also pretty old, like cruise control, ABS, and traction control- the real new one is the lane control)

In reply to ddavidv :

Pretty much cars that are not already imported to the US all suck for this market.  At least for brands.  The companies running them are easily big enough to make them fit for the market, so being the "importer" of them is a great way to spend the company's money out of your own pocket.