marriage?

xd wrote: You know a ring suppose to cost 3 months salary right? What I find really weird is people who are not financially able to support a wife getting married. I would not get married if I were you until first, you can spend 3 months salary on a ring and Second you can afford a wedding and a 20% down payment on a house. . If this means you have to work 2 or 3 jobs at a time then that is what it means. Its called working for what you want. Also working 2 or 3 jobs gives you time decide if this is what you really want. So sell all your crap and pay off your debt. If you can't bring yourself to do that you are not even close to being ready to get married. Maybe I'm old school. Don't buy a CZ. You can tell the difference. So can all the people your wife comes into contact with. That would be embarrassing for not only her but you also. The ring, the marriage it's all about security. If you can't provide security for your future wife don't get married. Baring like a knocked up girlfriend and a shot gun wielding father.

I don't think that buying an expensive ring and a lavish wedding reception "prove" that you are financially savvy enough to be able to support a marriage. My soon-to-be wife wants neither, just simple ones. She reasons that rather than blowing all that money on one day, we will have much more left over for a house and avoiding debt, which will be a much more sound long-term plan. Buying a ring and an expensive wedding do absolutely nothing for your financial security. Saving that money to put down a bigger down payment on things like a house and getting rid of your current debt does.

I made some random comment on some other thread somewhere, but it boiled down to this:

The engagement ring is a physical, tangible expression of your commitment to marrying her. The wedding ring is a physical, tangible expression of your commitment to be united with her for life. It shows that you are willing to sacrifice for her and put her above the ordinary things in life. In GRMers' cases, that means putting her before any automotive projects, for instance. If you marry her, you are pledging to lay your life down for her, and vow to be faithful to her. In turn, she pledges to be faithful to you and honor you. You both pledge to hold this relationship above any other familial ties.

Marriage is a bond. It is a formal declaration in front of friends and family (and God) that you are uniting yourself to her for life. If she's worth it, why not proclaim it to the world? It's level of commitment is there not just for your sake and for her sake, but for any children that will come too.

By not actually getting married, you are leaving this seed of doubt in her mind that you're not totally committed to her and the relationship.

xd wrote: You know a ring suppose to cost 3 months salary right? What I find really weird is people who are not financially able to support a wife getting married. I would not get married if I were you until first, you can spend 3 months salary on a ring and Second you can afford a wedding and a 20% down payment on a house. . If this means you have to work 2 or 3 jobs at a time then that is what it means. Its called working for what you want. Also working 2 or 3 jobs gives you time decide if this is what you really want. So sell all your crap and pay off your debt. If you can't bring yourself to do that you are not even close to being ready to get married. Maybe I'm old school. Don't buy a CZ. You can tell the difference. So can all the people your wife comes into contact with. That would be embarrassing for not only her but you also. The ring, the marriage it's all about security. If you can't provide security for your future wife don't get married. Baring like a knocked up girlfriend and a shot gun wielding father.

The 60's called. They want their societal norms back..

My wife works. We are in a Partnership. I did not purchase a plaything by proving that I had security and the ability to support her. She knows that I will support her through anything (layoff, disability, zombie attack), and I know she would do the same for me. We got married 5 years ago, if we had waited until I had what you are describing we would be married in roughly another 5 years. Financially we are probably better off than 99% of America, and we on combined income couldn't do what you are describing. Debeers wants you to spend 3 months, but only fools do it. We spent ~$1200 on her ring and mine combined. Her friends that have 4-5K rings now wish they spent that money on a house, car, other debt, anything that really mattered.

I am absolutely NOT the best person to answer this question at the moment, so I'll STFU.

I think of it this way.... figure 3 months salary ~6k for the average person. I can have a pretty wicked NA Miata for the wife and I to share for auto-X for that price.

Once again, Miata is the answer.

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

Platinum90 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: You're asking how to cook after you've already burned dinner. Living together, and especially moving across the country with someone, who you're not married to is just doing E36 M3 backwards. That said, you are where you are. If you intend to stay together, then yes - pull the trigger.

That is the weird thing...I never really ASKED her to move in with me. I think it was just something that was implied. I already consider us married, without the paperwork.

Marriage is not a "state" you just kind of fall into; it's an active project you both work on, all the time. Sometimes it's damned hard work, too, and unless you are absolutely and fully committed to this person and KNOW that your life would not be complete without them, you won't be able to hang with the workload. And frankly, although you've cited plenty of "obvious" reasons why you're not ready for a ring, you missed the big one: You absolutely don't sound like a guy in love. Margie

I guess it is my rational side coming out on the internet. I am Tom Cruise Jumping On a Couch in love with this woman. She is my reason for existing. She is the only reason I am not a deadbeat, living in my parents basement, no education, no job. I am just trying to be fiscally responsible, but I guess if that is what she needs to understand that I feel this way, maybe I should find a bullet to bite.

xd wrote: You know a ring suppose to cost 3 months salary right?

That's an absolute crock perpetuated by the diamond marketing people. You will likely make no other purchase in your life where what you buy is worth so much less the minute you walk out of the store with it. Try to sell a "used" diamond for close to what you paid. Go ahead.

Anybody that goes into hock for a wedding ring is making a bad investment unless she has a really good job.

j/k!

My only new comment is that i'm not spending $10k on a ring as mandated by these financially irresponsible "guidelines."

That's a 10% downpayment on a BALLER house around here.
That's an E36 M3.
That's finishing ALL of the projects that we have between the two of us.
That's an RX8.
That's at least 5 vacations.
That's a dozen roses a day for a year and a half.
That's 5.5 years of fast food meals.

All of which would have more use and significance.

mndsm wrote: I think of it this way.... figure 3 months salary ~6k for the average person. I can have a pretty wicked NA Miata for the wife and I to share for auto-X for that price. Once again, Miata is the answer.

I like this theory! LOL!

(she does like solo, but being that we are not financially stable, we have given up our SCCA memberships)

Platinum90 wrote:

mndsm wrote: (she does like solo, but being that we are not financially stable, we have given up our SCCA memberships)

Reiterates my point: Can't swing ~$100/year but wants bling?

In reply to Platinum90:

If its not your idea based on what you want/need, don't do it.

No, I didn't read the entire thread, just the op.

914driver said: Reiterates my point: Can't swing ~$100/year but wants bling?

its a bit more than 100 a year. Membership is 75 a year, each event is 35ish per person.

2 memberships = 150
8 events a year at 70 each = 560
totals = 710...yeah, slightly more than I want to spend right now.

In reply to Platinum90:

If you love her this much you wouldn't be "biting a bullet". I'm all for financial responsibility believe me, but what if you did get all your debt taken care of and then a disaster happened and put you right back in the hole? What, another few years to pay that off? We never know what life will send to us. Most our parents and grandparents never had much and they made it. We can't trust in money expecting that will cure everything. I'm not telling you to marry her or not to, non of my business. I hate to see you lose someone you love because after this long, she may make a decision soon. Just depends on whether you can let her go and still be happy or you can't imagine life without her. The following is both beautiful and serious:

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. Matthew 19:4-6

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

Platinum90 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: You're asking how to cook after you've already burned dinner. Living together, and especially moving across the country with someone, who you're not married to is just doing E36 M3 backwards. That said, you are where you are. If you intend to stay together, then yes - pull the trigger.

That is the weird thing...I never really ASKED her to move in with me. I think it was just something that was implied. I already consider us married, without the paperwork.

Marriage is not a "state" you just kind of fall into; it's an active project you both work on, all the time. Sometimes it's damned hard work, too, and unless you are absolutely and fully committed to this person and KNOW that your life would not be complete without them, you won't be able to hang with the workload. And frankly, although you've cited plenty of "obvious" reasons why you're not ready for a ring, you missed the big one: You absolutely don't sound like a guy in love. Margie

Mamma (GRM) knows best.

if she doesn't completely take your breath away at least once a week, just being her, like just her expression when she's taking a nap, then you guys are just there because it's comfortable for both of you. for some people, that works, but they aren't ever really happy about it either. just gotta be honest with yourself if that is true of both of you.

The three month salary thing is ridiculous, more lies perpetuated by women and deBeer's. The original ad campaign was 2 months, and even thats ridiculous, if I am making what I want to be making when I decide to be married, the ring could be almost a down payment for a house.

Also, diamonds themselves are just worthless gems hoarded by the monopoly that is deBeer's. (Sorry if I sound overly bitter, but a few of my friends' girlfriends are greedy whores when it comes to stuff like this.) They created the idea, and too many dumb women believed it, of an engagement ring. Before the baby boomers, I don't think it was very customary for engagement rings to be used, people just got married.

Also, don't throw an elaborate wedding, but drop a bit of money on a nice open bar for the reception and enjoy...Do what someone said above, rent out your favorite bar, make it an open bar, and some buffet style food and have some fun.

Also, I apologize if any of this sounded overly mean towards women, its not meant to be, but at school I have just dealt with too many self righteous princesses to feel differently about this subject.

JoeyM wrote: Get your finances in order. If she wants to get engaged, a simple gold band or a pawn shop ring work. Later on, when your finances are in order, worry about a different ring. Better yet, get creative, then. You could take a trip together, try to find a rock, and use THAT for the wedding band. Even if the rock was really small, a ring containing it would have a lot more memories behind it than one you bought at a jewelers. Since you don't care about fancy jewelry, your matrimonial ring needs can be taken care of very cheaply with something like http://boonerings.com (titanium, peened finish with hotrod flames, etc.)

All great ideas! Also, that Boone link is amazing! I finally found some rings I like so I emailed them to my fiance. Thanks!

xd wrote: You know a ring suppose to cost 3 months salary right?

A "tradition" invented by DeBeers after World War II. It's very impressive that they've managed to get it to take hold so well. I spent a little under three weeks' pay myself; got a unique diamond cut at Solomon Brothers (I figured I'd mention them as you're in Atlanta). I'm in the "old fashioned" camp myself, but I have no respect for that particular tradition. My wife did want a real diamond and one that looked decent, but you don't need that much money for decent.

I agree with Margie; marriage doesn't happen, it's a decision and a commitment. And it sounds like the time has come to decide you're going to tie the knot or bail out. If you want to be married, go ahead and have the wedding you can afford. The "experts" saying it takes $20,000 to have a wedding these days are the same "experts" saying it takes $20,000 to have reliable transportation.

When I got engaged (After 2 months of true "dating" and 4 months of knowing her) I couldn't afford much. SO I bought her the best I could....and even though it was less than a 1/2 ct, it was the style she wanted. It wasn't perfect, t wasn't a 1/3 of the ring her friends have but she was just as proud and showed anyone who would look.

Her parents were disgusted. Her friends thought she was nuts for marrying a guy that couldn't provide for her the way they expected. Didn't matter to her. She was the "right one" for me, and I for her and we both knew it almost instantly. That was over 9 years ago, and we're still as happy as ever.

If she's right for you, it won't matter what it is that you put on her finger. To herit's the fact that you want to put SOMETHING on her finger to let the world know that she belongs to you and vice versa.

I asked in the last thread and didn't get an answer.

Is that 3 month salary crock net or gross? So at 28 I was supposed to spend $8000-13000 on a ring? I spent precisely ONE paycheck on her ring, paid cash, and she loves it.

The big wedding thing is stupid as well. I've got a good buddy that he and his wife spent ALOT of money on a wedding $10k+, in a house they can't sell because they overbought with no downpayment, and he told me if they can sell it, they are upping the budget for their next house by as much as $50k.

He and his wife combined don't make much more than I make by myself (and my fiancee does better than I do), yet they want to spend 65% more on a house and they have a small child?

Why do people have such a desire to LOOK like the have money?

Platinum90 wrote: I guess it is my rational side coming out on the internet. I am Tom Cruise Jumping On a Couch in love with this woman. She is my reason for existing. She is the only reason I am not a deadbeat, living in my parents basement, no education, no job. I am just trying to be fiscally responsible, but I guess if that is what she needs to understand that I feel this way, maybe I should find a bullet to bite.

Then, dangit, just get her a(n inexpensive) ring and get married within your means. You don't have to spend $10k, $20k, etc. on a marriage.

What's important is the actual marriage part, not so much all the hoopla surrounding it. It is appropriate to have celebration, but you can have just as much celebration with a $5k (or less) wedding as with a $25k wedding.

My wife and I had 100 people more than we expected (had 250, expected 150) and got by with $7.5k. We were originally shooting for $5k. I'd say that we could have saved ~$1k if we had cheaped out a bit on the food.

My wife had gone to a $60k wedding, and the opulence actually detracted from the whole thing.

z31maniac wrote: Why do people have such a desire to LOOK like the have money?

Because everything in our society tells them they should be ashamed if they are not wearing fancy clothes, driving a bentley, and living in a McMansion.

Seriously, in a society where most people are one or two paychecks from homeless, buying a fancy ring is a bad idea. Put three month's salary into an emergency fund if you want to show that you have the fiscal responsibility to care for her......

I did the following to get a wedding ring.

Sold my '77 MGB for an '84 Jetta Diesel and cash. Sold the Jetta Diesel. Sold my '64 Chrysler Newport to a junkyard for scrap value. Sold my '88 Impulse Turbo Special Edition. Sold my '74 260Z.

These weren't projects either. They were all nice drivers, with the exception of the Newport.

I ended up with no cars but a happy wife that seems intent upon loving me forever for some unknown reason. And it probably wasn't the ring, but giving up all my favorite stuff to get her ring probably meant a lot to her.

MadScientistMatt wrote: I spent a little under three weeks' pay myself; got a unique diamond cut at Solomon Brothers (I figured I'd mention them as you're in Atlanta).

+1 for Solomon Brothers. And only walk into D. Geller & Son if you want to see where the guys end up who are too slimy for used car sales.

Then, dangit, just get her a(n inexpensive) ring and get married within your means. You don't have to spend $10k, $20k, etc. on a marriage. What's important is the actual marriage part, not so much all the hoopla surrounding it. It is appropriate to have celebration, but you can have just as much celebration with a $5k (or less) wedding as with a $25k wedding. My wife and I had 100 people more than we expected (had 250, expected 150) and got by with $7.5k. We were originally shooting for $5k. I'd say that we could have saved ~$1k if we had cheaped out a bit on the food. My wife had gone to a $60k wedding, and the opulence actually detracted from the whole thing.

This. My inlaws stepped in and made ours morethan what we wanted but I left the decisions to her. We had planned to do it ourselves, spend $5k total. They ended up getting it catered and having a bar and champagne fountain (she doesn't drink, and I don;'t drink champagne) and spent over $10k. Not what we had in mind but it was a pretty wedding.

Her brother on the other hand had an almost 6 figure wedding. It was too much.

Our wedding was $3000-4000 and she did alot herself and there were only 80 people. Amazing how quickly everything adds up. She picked out a $50 band and a $200 dress and she was the most beautiful thing ever walking down the isle. Did I mention she got me a subscription to GRM for my birthday?