May I vent, question, cry & rant a bit?

Questions about society.

Sorry, this is O.T.

I just came from the wake of a 17 year old kid, Dad's a good friend.

GREAT student, basketball, football, track, lived on a farm, horses, did volunteer work, competed with horses, easy on the eyes and well mannered..

It sounds like today kids are not equipped for failure, you get a trophy for showing up. A coworker coaches high school football; player gets an MVP (or equivalent) and some Dad calls the coach out, HIS kid deserves it. Rather than make a fuss, the second kid gets something.

With that in mind I have to tell you that my friend's son took his own life.

My friend found him behind the barn.

It was over some damn girl.

They dated a long time, but still.....

My son and I built up a car when he was in high school. Geo something, white, TSW wheels, pretty quick. He worked two Jobs while still keeping AP courses together and bought a Jetta. Sold the white car to a friend. That kid was pretty fast; hit a big roller and folded it in half around a tree 5 ft. up. My friend Paul found him. Ian (my son) had trouble with this. Wasn't going to take the AP exams.

BS.

My old man would cuff me in the back of the head and say "E36 M3 happens".

So why would a young man with his whole life out there with scholorships galore and interests and a circle of friends etc. do this? We take Suicide Prevention training every 6 months, but it's aimed at returning soldiers.

Are we not equipping our children to cope with failure?

BTW, don't care if you take your frikkin white facing backward hat off in a diner, please take it off in fine dining or in my house! But take it off at a goddamn wake you idiot.

Again, apologize for the rant; but are we not equipping our children?

Am I showing my age, lack of patience or my lack of tolerance? I'm not getting it.

Dan

My sister did this at 21. She had a 15 month old baby. Sometimes it might be about equipping people for failure. Sometimes they're just broken.
Sorry you're going through this. There really aren't any words to make it better.

I see no issues in your rant, and feel for the family and all those associated.

The real question is where do we start preventing and reversing this trend, as we may have an idea how do we help others see and understand these issues so they can pass it down?

914, Bear with me a moment because I'm going to say something that I don't mean to be superficial but many will take it that way.

I am a LONG, LONG way from devout, but I would suspect that if you plotted the declining involvement in faith with the suicide rate of kids you'd see a correlation. If you teach a kid that there's a Divine Presence and that they're put on earth to fulfill His plan, that they are truly unique among all the people who have lived or who will ever live, then you might lay a foundation for an appreciation of the value of their own lives.

Since my wife left last August I've been in some pretty damned dark places emotionally. I didn't just perk up and say, "Hey, The Big Guy has plans for me. I don't need that .45..." and I don't mean to compare the perspective of a 50-something with a teenager, but if there are enough guys like me out there, that one kid is more likely to bump into somebody like me at some point.

The fact that most kids today seemed to spend more time twiddling the buttons on their iPhone than talking to people (especially mentors) doesn't help matters.

I'm very sorry to hear about that. One of my friends OD'd on pills last year and that was my first personal experience with suicide. I don't understand it, either, but that doesn't help the hurt much. I'll keep you, your friend and his family in my prayers, fwiw.

I'm so sorry, Dan. I really mean that.

When some E36 M3 like this happens, we as thoughtful human beings try to find meaning in it, and we beat ourselves (and others) up about it. We wonder what we could've done to prevent it. We wonder what the berkeley happened to cause it. I don't have any of those answers, and in my lifetime, I can honestly say it's been a goddamned waste of time trying to find them. I can't imagine losing my child, and my heart genuinely hurts for your friend.

And yeah, you should've politely told backwards hat kid that in our culture, if you're not going to wear a suit, you, at the very least, leave the goddamned hat in the berkeleying car.

I'm not going to tell you not to try to make sense of it. I will tell you it's futile. And know that there are plenty of folks with babies who are raising them to accept defeat as a natural and constant inevitability in life.

All I can add (and please bear in mind that the six friends of mine who have done it were adults, rather than children) is that from what I've seen, it's never the folks suggesting that they might harm themselves that actually follow through. Someone who really wants to die never dares to have their berkeleying "plan" exposed. Please tell that to the kid's parents..they will really be beating themselves up right now with the "why didn't we see it?" E36 M3 right now.

I'd like to offer some sort of neat clean solution like "we don't teach our kids about failure" but I lost a good friend some 20 years ago who had had too much of that, and he just could not ever seem to see that he was doing ok anyway. I don't really have any answers either, just condolences.

I am very sorry for your loss.

I'm very sorry. I really have nothing else. There's no version of it that isn't awful, and there's no way of avoiding these things that fits everybody, no simple answer. And I'm sorry that nothing any of us can say will help the folks who are dealing with it.

The only answer is with the person no longer with us.....the ones who show the signs(at least most in the teen bracket) hardly ever seem to want to take their own lives. There are some that will never show anything, and this is what it sounds like. My condolences to yourself, your friend, and everyone else involved.

Tell him not to beat himself up over it trying to figure out what he missed. He will never know. It is always best to look bad an enjoy the good memories.

I think it's pretty clear from some of the responses here, that some of you don't have experiences with mental health issues. They are often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed in teens. Even with proper diagnosis and treatment, I sometimes want out. It might happen one day. I don't know what will cause it, I have no plans to do such a thing, but in my case, it's a mental health issue. Anything can trigger it. Missing the Challenge this year was really hard for me (and still is, I put my April issue straight onto the shelf).

My dad did the tough love thing. I got really good at kicking HIS ass when he tried to punish me. Most of the times it happened, I don't even remember.

So next time you think you know, trust me, you don't.

A soul needs many buttresses to keep it sane and whole.

Teach selflessness, and selfishness. Too much of one or the other is a bad thing.

Teach success and failure. They are two sides of the same coin.

Teach honor for everything and everyone.

Teach love, both given and received.

Teach responsibility.

Teach ethics and morality. They go hand in hand.

Teach self control.

Teach wonder. Wonder is an amazing thing. Wonder in everything from the child just born to the old geezer that knows everything. From the snow flake to the hurricane. From the sunshine to the stars at night. From the brilliance of the human mind, to the amazing feats of the human body.

Teach prayer.

"Teach" can and should be substituted with "share" often.

For what it's worth, that's my theory on raising kids. I pray, fairly often, that it works.

I would be absolutely devastated, standing in your friends shoes. I'm deeply sorry. Prayers for him and his family.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend's son. I don't understand suicide, but I had three good friends make serious (i.e. not a cry for attention) attempts in high school or shortly thereafter. I can't imagine feeling that things are so bad that taking your life is your best option, but I believe that it's a very real feeling for those individuals. Thankfully, my friends survived their attempts, worked through their issues, and are fully functioning adults with jobs, families, etc.

It's tough, I was close with them all, they had great support groups (friends and family), but I never saw it coming. I spent a lot of time with one of my friends helping him work through the aftermath, and it can be a tough recovery.

My thoughts and prayers are with your friend, his family, and you.

Dan, words fail me. I am so sorry for yours and your friend's loss.

I lost a very good friend the same way many years ago, his older brother and I are good friends to this day. Once in a while we talk about it, and 30 years later we still don't have any answers.

I think it can be very very hard to really accept "This, too, shall pass" as a mantra.

And its almost impossible to make a young person understand it.

Sorry.

I truly feel for you. Really a sad situation that causes a lot of second guessing and wonder.

One year and 5 days ago one friend took his own life.

2 years and 2 days ago another friend took his own life.

Both were under the influence of drugs. Really hoping nothing happens this year.

papers have been written about this. over and over and over. It is the parents that are not equipping their kids for failure. They call it "helicopter parenting" as in the parents constantly hover over the kids, making sure everything goes according to plan and their kid comes out on top.

It is very bad parenting... Failure is one of those things that makes us what we are. Most people will pick themselves up, dust off the dirt, and try harder.. provided they have been allowed to have little failures all their lives and have a clue how to react when things go wrong. By "hovering" over their kids, these parents are protecting them in the worst possible way imaginable... let your kid fall down and skin their knees, bloody their lip, or fail a test. It might hurt for a little bit, but eventually the kids heal and grow for it.

It's call character

914.. I am sorry this had to happen to you and your friend's family. Parents should never bury their kids..

Once again, this is not a parenting issue in that manner, it's a mental health issue. I was a straight A student and great in school until middle school. I was never forced to do anything, but my parents worked at the school. All that meant for me was that I got to hang around the other teachers' kids until time for teachers to leave. No over-involvement, just good parenting. That didn't change that mental health issues are issues on both sides of my family.

Trust me, this doesn't come from parenting. As someone that's comfortable with the notion of suicide right now, I can say it's not from parenting.

The parents are at fault? Wow. You need to really look at the cause of most suicides in situations like this. Over 90% of those who commit suicide suffer from some form of mental illness at the time of their death. Google the statistics. That kind of comment just amazes me.

Blame the parents. Blame society. Blame guns....Blame everything but where the REAL blame is.....mental illness that we don't recognize as being just as serious as diabetes, heart disease or asthma. When will we wake up?!!

Um. None of us with the exception of Dan knew this kid. Again, it's an exhausting and useless process to try to find "the answer," even for the people who knew this kid and his parents. Again, I'm truly sorry, Dan. You know how to reach me, and I'm happy to listen.

It is called Depression, and it is a terrible illness. Sometimes there was an event or series of events that caused it. Most of the time, there is no rhyme or reason to it.

Im very sorry to hear this. My cousin died from suicide, its devastating, he was heavily addicted to heroin and couldnt stop no matter how hard he tried, eventually he went on a binge and sold everything in his grandmothers house for money and after it was over he felt so guilty he commited suicide. I wish he would of understood that things can always improve.

When i was a kid i suffered greatly from anxiety, and depression and i told my dad if i had to keep living like this i dont want to live anymore, after many doctor visits and failed medications i found something that worked, it was oxycodone.. It was a 500-600 dollar a week habit.. I didnt want to live like that anymore so i stopped with the support of my family and a doctor who genuinly cared for me. Im still in treatment for my addiction but i have been clean for a year. With no depression or anxiety.

Anyways what im trying to get at is you can overcome any obsticle in life especially with the support of loved ones, in my experiance that was the most important. I dont think i could of done it without my parents. Many people feel alone and suffer so greatly everyday that they just dont want to feel that way anymore and take the quick way out.

Trust me ive been down to the bottom before and i know how it feels to lose your will to live.

Again, im very sorry for your loss and i feel for you 100 percent.

In reply to 914Driver: My sincere condolences to your friend and his family.

I had something that I thought was profoundly insightful that I tried to write, but it was coming out too wordy and bit incoherent, so I'll try to distill it.

When I was a teenager I took life way to seriously, and allowed things that seem quite trivial to me now to get me all twisted up for weeks, or even months at a time. Especially girls. I think that on the bell curve of teenage neurosis I was probably in the middle, meaning that there were lots and lots of teenagers further from grasping (the adult version of) reality than me.

The two most valuable things that I learned were:

1) the 5 year test. In 5 years who will know or care about the traumatic situation that your experiencing now? Many teenage / young adult problems can't even pass a 1 year test.

2) Failure is an opportunity. Failure gives you chances to learn, grow, develop strength, experience and character, that success can't .

Since we're all motor heads here, I'll use an illustration about life that we can all relate to; life is an endurance race, not a sprint. In fact its not just any endurance race, its the Paris to Dakar. You should expect to have all manner of break downs along the way. How you deal with those break downs is what will determine your success or failure. Getting to the finish line at all is a great accomplishment.

.

Now if I could only figure out how to translate that illustration into one that kids could understand.

BTW, not intending to blame parents, or discount the possibility genuine mental illness.

In reply to HappyAndy:

very well put

I agree, that is very well put. Kids need to be taught how to deal with things better. Instead all if them tend to get far too many free passes. With any luck, it would help catch the ones that do need some extra help. It would have caught my issues about 2 years sooner.