Medium duty trucks. Am I stupid?

We have a 1979 20' dump International with a DT466 on the farm we use for moving dirt and such. It's pretty handy to have around the place but not something you would want to drive on a regular basis. Ours has been strictly off-road and farm use for 10 years.

The last time my father drove it, it ended up upside down off a dike and in the marsh. 

Many oil booms, absorption pads, a tractor, a backhoe, and an excavator later, it was right side up and back on dry land. About an hour after that it was hauling dirt again. 

Dad is shopping for a dump trailer now, but even used they are damn near as expensive as a used dump truck. 

Parts for mediums can be both expensive and hard to come by.  In the fleet I work with, we're actively moving away from them and going either heavy or 5500 pickups.  

some ride better... air ride suspension, air ride cab mounts, and air ride seats. All options from freightliner. The Western Hauler bed loads easy, as well. With the 6 speed Allison 3060, it rides and drives better than the 96 F350 Centurion it replaced. 

I wouldn’t sell it for 3000, but is (sorta) available.  

In reply to 03Panther :

Bonertown

In reply to 03Panther :

More pics duh!

Would you do a combo meal for this and your trailer? Lol

This thread inspired me to post my F250 up FS finally. Looking for dumber trucks on CL now. Thanks all.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

Ours has been strictly off-road use for 10 years.

Story checks out.  

yupididit said:

In reply to 03Panther :

More pics duh!

Would you do a combo meal for this and your trailer? Lol

Absolutely. I could make ya one heck of a combo price. We have to get acordian’s approval, but it’s prolly not really what he needs. I won’t kick him to the curb, though. We can talk, though. 

I guess it’s time to start a for sale thread for the two of them!

To the OP, I think Curtis prolly nailed you needs right with the step van suggestion. Almost everything that you could load in the bed af a pick up will load easier into a step van They even made a few step van flatbeds, and I've seen a couple home made ones as well.

re: step vans.

They aren't made for distance travel. No insulation. Bake ovens in the summer, ice boxes in the winter. Aerodynamics of a cow barn. Also usually geared lower for in-town use so will be screaming at highway speeds.

But wait, there's more!

If it has a Grumman body you'll have the joy of dealing with that company if you ever need body parts. Grumman doesn't give a rat's you-know-what about their vans after the sale. They'll sell you parts...eventually. At prices that show they know you can't go anywhere else.

03Panther said:

To the OP, I think Curtis prolly nailed you needs right with the step van suggestion. Almost everything that you could load in the bed af a pick up will load easier into a step van They even made a few step van flatbeds, and I've seen a couple home made ones as well.

A step van would not be the answer for me. I need to be able to haul things like mulch and gravel. Plus I want to be able to load and unload  heavy stuff with my loader tractor, so I need an open top and some sort of bed side. 

gearheadmb said:

03Panther said:

To the OP, I think Curtis prolly nailed you needs right with the step van suggestion. Almost everything that you could load in the bed af a pick up will load easier into a step van They even made a few step van flatbeds, and I've seen a couple home made ones as well.

A step van would not be the answer for me. I need to be able to haul things like mulch and gravel. Plus I want to be able to load and unload  heavy stuff with my loader tractor, so I need an open top and some sort of bed side. 

A step van and a Sawz-all?

The right pick up chassis with a dump bed sounds ideal to me. If a crew cab isn't required, your options open up a lot. They'll haul/tow whatever you want and probably still fit into your garage. I bet there are some on government liquidation sites, etc

This may have an unsavoury aroma, but the price leaves room for renos https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/cto/d/gibsons-grumman-garbage-truck/7281692365.html

03Panther said:

some ride better... air ride suspension, air ride cab mounts, and air ride seats. All options from freightliner. The Western Hauler bed loads easy, as well. With the 6 speed Allison 3060, it rides and drives better than the 96 F350 Centurion it replaced. 

I wouldn’t sell it for 3000, but is (sorta) available.  

Do those require CDL?

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

There are three reasons it does not need a cdl.

1) If there is a way to prove that a vehicle is not ever to be used as a commercial vehicle, such as an RV, nothing needs a CDL. You can drive a 80,000 lb rated Class 8 Semi w/air brakes without a CDL, if its proven to be an RV. But the burden of proof is on the owner, at the tag/license office. And after that, very few police officers actually know what the laws are. (thats another long story, but can run ya into problems)

2) Rated under 26,500 lbs. Mine, since it is titled as a FL50, is rated under that. Would safely hual twice that, but is only rated under that.

3) No air brakes. Many of the MD trucks now have hyd. disc brakes; no air on board at all. Mine only has air on board for the suspension.

Jesse Ransom (FFS) said:

 

I rented an NPR when I put the garage stuff in storage, and it was *terrifying* the way it porpoised. Just crazy. And this one only had a few thousand miles on it. You'd go over some wavy pavement and by the third oscillation you were clearing the seat. Bummer, 'cause I think they're awfully cool. I wonder if Ohlins makes anything...

 

I never drove the NPR trucks, the ones we had at our ship were the big FTRs.  Those rode like trucks and handled surprisingly well.  I had gotten them up on three (four?) wheels more than once while drivingly them spiritedly.  The only problem with them was they topped out at 75 mph unless you could find a semi to draft, then you get to 80.  11 mpg all day, 25mph or 75 mph  zero weight or fully loaded.

03Panther said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

There are three reasons it does not need a cdl.

1) If there is a way to prove that a vehicle is not ever to be used as a commercial vehicle, such as an RV, nothing needs a CDL. You can drive a 80,000 lb rated Class 8 Semi w/air brakes without a CDL, if its proven to be an RV. But the burden of proof is on the owner, at the tag/license office. And after that, very few police officers actually know what the laws are. (thats another long story, but can run ya into problems)

2) Rated under 26,500 lbs. Mine, since it is titled as a FL50, is rated under that. Would safely hual twice that, but is only rated under that.

3) No air brakes. Many of the MD trucks now have hyd. disc brakes; no air on board at all. Mine only has air on board for the suspension.

True, but this depends on the state.

Having been a pro driver and licensed in PA, CA, IN, TX, and LA, it gets a bit hairy.  Most of them are pretty permissive and dance around the gray areas.  CA for instance still requires the license and testing, but not the CDL part.  If you were to buy a T2000 and a 53' dry van for your self, you can title it and drive it without a CDL, but you still need the testing and the class A part.

PA and TX are a bit more pragmatic.  If you want to drive a school bus, you need the CDL class B, a passenger endorsement, and school endorsement.  If you buy a school bus for your personal use, you can drive it with a learner's permit.  The big difference in that case is that TX will make you insure it as a commercial vehicle.  PA lets you insure it as an RV.

In CA, I tried to insure a step van for private use.  The big qualifier there was that it had to have rear windows and rear seats.  No windows or seats, it's commercial.

Gearhead....

Take a look at what you really need.  In my (not dreadfully extensive) experience, I think you'll find that [edit] a medium duty version that is an over-done light truck (F450-550) is a much more pleasant thing than a medium duty which is a softened version of something heavier (F650, FL70, etc).  [end edit]

If you can get the beef you need with an overdone pickup, it might be a more enjoyable experience than trying to live with the spartan nature of a Mack.

Having said that, I straight up used my step vans as daily drivers when I lived in L.A.  Every block has a parking section just for "commercial loading only."  Free parking in L.A.?  Yup.  I took it to my favorite bar on Sunset Blvd a few times a week.  Roll up in an 18' Grumman, get rockstar parking right in front, and step out in my freshest duds.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Having been a pro driver and licensed in PA, CA, IN, TX, and LA,

I did not get my commercial license until mid/late 90's, right after they made CDL's universal instead of state specific.

So my license now reads AL, instead of VA, but it is the same CDL.

You are correct that some states do handle private vehicles, different, but I think TX calls it a "non- commercial, commercial license" or some such silliness.

No clue what komiefornia requires, but I'll never have to worry about that, so its OK.

I did forget about the states that require a non- commercial, commercial license, but I believe its extremely easy to get. And really, anything larger than a light duty truck (Class 3 and below are considered passenger cars) should have something requiring a driver to show he's a bit more aware than the standard mind numb driver. Unfortunately, that usualy is only used as a revenue stream!

The short answer is, under 26.5, hyd brakes, RV, and I have a CDL thats not that hard to get, since cops dont really get it all the time, and don't like to be corrected.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Gearhead....

Take a look at what you really need.  In my (not dreadfully extensive) experience, I think you'll find that [edit] a medium duty version that is an over-done light truck (F450-550) is a much more pleasant thing than a medium duty which is a softened version of something heavier (F650, FL70, etc).  [end edit]

If you can get the beef you need with an overdone pickup, it might be a more enjoyable experience than trying to live with the spartan nature of a Mack.

Very true!

gearheadmb said:

This one has caught my attention. My brain is starting to say this is probably a bad idea overall, my heart wants real life tonka trucks.

The auction closed on this one at $3950 if anyone was wondering. I still haven't decided if I want one or not, but you gotta admit that's a lot of truck for the money.

In reply to gearheadmb :

Why not go full size?   If you avoid Peterbuilt and Kenworth you can often find heavy duty trucks for less than $5000 that still have many tens of thousands of miles left in them. Maybe even 100,000+ miles.   
     Your fuel mileage is going to be about the same. Your operating  costs will be  lower,  insurance about the same. 
     Many racers will buy a cheap tractor and a semi decent older race car trailer. NASCAR NHRA  WOW SPRINT CAR ETC.  peal off the advertising and go racing 

In reply to frenchyd :

The same thought has gone around in my head a few time along the way!

After getting the FL50 conversion truck, for towing our camper, I found it has most of the same negatives as a Class 8 truck (or motorhome) but less power and MD trucks tend to be more expensive used. Around the same MPG and maint.as well.

The one I have does ride a bit better than a Class 8 as short as it would, and is a bit easier to find a parking space, but what he is looking for would be longer anyway. Both will take a bit of effort on the private insurance, as well.

yupididit said:

I want one of these and will have one, someday lol

They have completely disappeared. My father and uncle had them when I was a kid and if I stumble across one now I'd love to make a pickup truck.