Minimum Wage hike, you for it?

Bobzilla wrote: We've got a friend on the local board that has his GED and 7 years of work experience. Came from a broken home, with no help and worked his way into a nice salaried $80k a year position. A position which was eliminated (along with 799 of his fellow employees). Is he crying? Nope. He's busting his ass to get another job, fully expecting to start out at the ground floor and work his way back up. Too many spoiled rotten E36 M3s think they should be given a good job for nothing. berkeley that. Get your ass out there and find a way to make it work. The world, this country and the people in it owe you NOTHING.

To be honest, it's a waste of productivity for someone like him to start again at the bottom. Everyone involved, from him to the company he's working for to the country as a whole would be better off putting him in the higher position he's obviously qualified for.

This has nothing to do with the minimum wage, of course...

dculberson wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: We've got a friend on the local board that has his GED and 7 years of work experience. Came from a broken home, with no help and worked his way into a nice salaried $80k a year position. A position which was eliminated (along with 799 of his fellow employees). Is he crying? Nope. He's busting his ass to get another job, fully expecting to start out at the ground floor and work his way back up. Too many spoiled rotten E36 M3s think they should be given a good job for nothing. berkeley that. Get your ass out there and find a way to make it work. The world, this country and the people in it owe you NOTHING.

To be honest, it's a waste of productivity for someone like him to start again at the bottom. Everyone involved, from him to the company he's working for to the country as a whole would be better off putting him in the higher position he's obviously qualified for. This has nothing to do with the minimum wage, of course...

We all agree, BUT.... everywhere he has applied (currently has over 100 applications in) wants those magical slips of paper from a degree.

Cone_Junkie wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

fritzsch wrote: But what happens when there are three times as many job seekers as there are job openings?

Then the company will be able to get top talent for the wage they offer. The wage people make is based on the value they bring to the table. If you bring value, you get rewarded

Those are some rose colored glasses you have on there. I have worked MW jobs in my past. Most of those types of jobs don't have a lot of room for promotion. My first job payed MW, after a couple of months I found a software flaw that led to a lot of customer complaints. Up until I found this flaw, the mistakes were blamed on me. What was my reward? I got a 25 cent raise! Yes I was no longer MW anymore, but was that a significant upgrade for going above and beyond? It makes more sense for a company to bring in another drone at MW than to promote everybody that does a great job. So all those who want to keep the MW as is- Do we keep it at the current level forever?

1) The MW has its place as a start in life. I've already stated my support for that.

2) The MW at this point is NOT intended to be a living wage. Maybe that was its alleged intent back then but not now.

3) The MW bears checking and possibly raising every so often, but doubling it (which is the whole point of the strikes) is financially insane.

4) If someone is not willing to put forth the effort to better their lot in life by acquiring saleable skills and training which will make them more appealing to employers then I don't want to hear them bitch about being stuck at or near MW.

Bobzilla wrote:

dculberson wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: We've got a friend on the local board that has his GED and 7 years of work experience. Came from a broken home, with no help and worked his way into a nice salaried $80k a year position. A position which was eliminated (along with 799 of his fellow employees). Is he crying? Nope. He's busting his ass to get another job, fully expecting to start out at the ground floor and work his way back up. Too many spoiled rotten E36 M3s think they should be given a good job for nothing. berkeley that. Get your ass out there and find a way to make it work. The world, this country and the people in it owe you NOTHING.

To be honest, it's a waste of productivity for someone like him to start again at the bottom. Everyone involved, from him to the company he's working for to the country as a whole would be better off putting him in the higher position he's obviously qualified for. This has nothing to do with the minimum wage, of course...

We all agree, BUT.... everywhere he has applied (currently has over 100 applications in) wants those magical slips of paper from a degree.

On this side tangent: I have yet to understand why a company will insist on a degree of ANY type, not necessarily one related to the position to be filled.

fritzsch wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

fritzsch wrote: But what happens when there are three times as many job seekers as there are job openings?

Then the company will be able to get top talent for the wage they offer. The wage people make is based on the value they bring to the table. If you bring value, you get rewarded

One of the oft suggested solutions for people who don't want a minimum wage job is to find a new job. It is relevant to note that that won't always be possible. This is also relevant for people who claim ending unemployment benefits will make people go find a job, not that I have seen that in this thread. Hard to find a new job when there are no jobs

Then you put in the effort wherever you work and find a way to move up. I have yet to be in any employer that does not promote within. I've worked for retail (Wal-Mart, AutoZone), I've worked warehouses and manufacturing. In EVERY case, showing up, busting ass gets you moving up the chain.

Don't like your minimum wage job? Find a new one. Can't find a new one, find a way to move up in what you have. Make lemonade from lemons.

Datsun1500 wrote:

fritzsch wrote: But what happens when there are three times as many job seekers as there are job openings?

Then the company will be able to get top talent for the wage they offer. The wage people make is based on the value they bring to the table. If you bring value, you get rewarded

This. Fritzch, are you implying that we should have guaranteed minimum employment as well as guaranteed minimum wage?

Curmudgeon wrote: 2) The MW at this point is NOT intended to be a living wage. Maybe that was its alleged intent back then but not now.

Who has made this decision? Why wouldn't the law stay to it's original intent? Because you don't like it?

Curmudgeon wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

dculberson wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: We've got a friend on the local board that has his GED and 7 years of work experience. Came from a broken home, with no help and worked his way into a nice salaried $80k a year position. A position which was eliminated (along with 799 of his fellow employees). Is he crying? Nope. He's busting his ass to get another job, fully expecting to start out at the ground floor and work his way back up. Too many spoiled rotten E36 M3s think they should be given a good job for nothing. berkeley that. Get your ass out there and find a way to make it work. The world, this country and the people in it owe you NOTHING.

To be honest, it's a waste of productivity for someone like him to start again at the bottom. Everyone involved, from him to the company he's working for to the country as a whole would be better off putting him in the higher position he's obviously qualified for. This has nothing to do with the minimum wage, of course...

We all agree, BUT.... everywhere he has applied (currently has over 100 applications in) wants those magical slips of paper from a degree.

On this side tangent: I have yet to understand why a company will insist on a degree of ANY type, not necessarily one related to the position to be filled.

I agree. Some of the biggest berkeleyups I;ve seen in the working world have had degrees and liked to point it out at every opportunity. Sadly, they had no working knowledge of the business they were trying to run (or ruin as was the case many times).

NVM.

Bobzilla wrote: I agree. Some of the biggest berkeleyups I;ve seen in the working world have had degrees and liked to point it out at every opportunity. Sadly, they had no working knowledge of the business they were trying to run (or ruin as was the case many times).

And they deserve that job because they've worked harder (at school) than all the other guys without a degree.

Wouldn't you agree?

Duke wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

fritzsch wrote: But what happens when there are three times as many job seekers as there are job openings?

Then the company will be able to get top talent for the wage they offer. The wage people make is based on the value they bring to the table. If you bring value, you get rewarded

This. Fritzch, are you implying that we should have guaranteed minimum employment as well as guaranteed minimum wage?

No, I wasn't directly implying that. Just adding more information for people to think about. But it is better to have people work than not be able to find a job.

Datsun1500 wrote:

Cone_Junkie wrote: Those are some rose colored glasses you have on there. I have worked MW jobs in my past. Most of those types of jobs don't have a lot of room for promotion.

Are you still making minimum wage? Why or why not?

No I am not. That is because I got a job in a field I love and always wanted. I was lucky enough to have a dad who got me into motorcycles at a young age and a place to use them. We didn't have much money, so I had to learn how to fix them. That just added to my previous love of repairing and modifying bicycles. The biggest factor in me becoming a successful auto tech was that my High School had an auto shop program. Spent all three years in it and competed at a state level in diagnostic challenges.

So does everyone have a dad that gets them into motorcycles? Does everybody even have a legal place to ride them? Does everybody have a High School with an auto shop program? Does everybody have parents that can support them while they go to college to hone their skills?

Nope, nope, nope,and nope.

So do I E36 M3 on everyone that didn't have my same opportunities and blame them for their place in life?

Nope.

Stop living in your little bubble and assume opportunities are different for everybody. Zip code, parents wealth, and race are all factors in where we are (or aren't) today.

I hardly see how that was an excuse?

Bobzilla wrote: The fact is, the current Minimum Wage is a livable wage.

When McDonalds put together their laughable suggested budget for their workers, it involved two jobs and didn't pay for heat.

Maybe put together a budget yourself and share it here. Assume a 40 hour work week and $7.25 an hour wages and show us how far that money goes to doing the things you think it does.

PHeller wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: I agree. Some of the biggest berkeleyups I;ve seen in the working world have had degrees and liked to point it out at every opportunity. Sadly, they had no working knowledge of the business they were trying to run (or ruin as was the case many times).

And they deserve that job because they've worked harder (at school) than all the other guys without a degree. Wouldn't you agree?

Really? It's that simple? Only people who work hard get college degrees?

G.W. Bush bragged in a commencement speech about how a C average student (himself) made it to the Whitehouse. Hmmm. Did he work hard then? Why didn't the Valedictorian with a 5.0 grade average make it to the Whitehouse? Did W work harder than that student? I would bet not. Did his parent's money and Bush legacy not only get him into college, but arguably get him his degree? I think so.

Finding a job when there are none? Try expanding your search. My wife lost an upper level management position last year and is now a supervisor in a call center making 1/3 of what she did previously. Its not ideal but it helps keep a roof over our head and food in our mouths. It has also taught us that we can do without a lot of stuff and still be happy.

In reply to Datsun1500:

How is my pointing out that you sounded like Clint Eastwood's character in "Gran Torino" an excuse?

pres589 wrote: When McDonalds put together their laughable suggested budget for their workers, it involved two jobs and didn't pay for heat. Maybe put together a budget yourself and share it here. Assume a 40 hour work week and $7.25 an hour wages and show us how far that money goes to doing the things you think it does.

Well, for starters... that is good for ordering half the value menu every hour you work so there is no way you will starve.

One could argue that "doing something" by protesting, unionizing and playing the political game as a way of getting a raise is pretty hard work.

We pay political professionals a pretty good salary to represent our interests, I see nothing wrong with a few McDonalds or WalMart workers paying themselves for playing the political game.

PHeller wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: I agree. Some of the biggest berkeleyups I;ve seen in the working world have had degrees and liked to point it out at every opportunity. Sadly, they had no working knowledge of the business they were trying to run (or ruin as was the case many times).

And they deserve that job because they've worked harder (at school) than all the other guys without a degree. Wouldn't you agree?

They deserved that job because they met the criteria of the person(s) who made the hiring decision. Whether those criteria seems sane or intelligent to those of us on the outside is irrelevant.

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Cone_Junkie: Please show me where I look down on everyone? I asked that a few days ago and have no answer yet. Better yet, read a few pages ago on my upbringing, to see why I say anyone can do it. You got away from a minimum wage job because you learned a skill. That skill pays you better than minimum wage. I will never understand how people don't get that minimum wage is for minimum skill/effort/whatever. If you want more, do/learn/work more.

This whole thread is the haves degrading the have nots. Not you specifically.

Since you have all the answers, where does one get the training for a useable skill? I told you my specific one, which very few others had/have.

Minimum Wage is not for minimum skill. It was designed for keeping companies starving out employees because there was no other work options for them. If it were up to employers they would only pay $1 an hour if everybody else paid the same wages. Why do you think they ship all these manufacturing jobs overseas? Because there is no MW in 3rd world countries and 0 opportunities for those workers to do otherwise.

pres589 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: The fact is, the current Minimum Wage is a livable wage.

When McDonalds put together their laughable suggested budget for their workers, it involved two jobs and didn't pay for heat. Maybe put together a budget yourself and share it here. Assume a 40 hour work week and $7.25 an hour wages and show us how far that money goes to doing the things you think it does.

http://www.suburbancomputer.com/tips_calculator.php Actual take home, with Marion county taxes $236/week. That's $944/ 4 week month for 13 months, or figure $1022/month for 12. No overtime, which in a McD's that would be easy to pick up (covering for another worker) but we'll stick with your plan.

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Indiana/Indianapolis/cheap-apartments-for-rent-4la/?&sort=sortpricelow-asc&page=1 Aprtments showing rent from the $320/month range with utilities paid. No roomate, figure $320 (with utilities).

Single person, eating cheaply can be done at $40/week. Yes, you will be eating at home etc.$160

Basic pay-as-you-go cellphone for work/emergencies $24/month.

IndyGo bus pass, full month, unlimited rides $60/month.

So let's add it up.

Food: $160/month

Rent: $320/month

Phone: $24/month

Transportation: $60/month

Total:$564/month. That leaves another $458 for other necessities as need, toiletries, personal hygene etc. Soap and shampoo you can get $1 bottles that last a month. Big bag of cheapo TP for $6/month. Laundry is $1.50/load, can make one load last a week if you need.

So please tell me how that's not a livable wage. If you had a roommate, you could cut the rent down (large apartment cost $500/month, but splits 2 ways for $250/month). Working extra shifts to make extra. Putting in the effort.

McD's has a huge list of openings in their stores and they prefer to promote within. http://www.mcstate.com/careers/jobs?stateid=13&type=all&locales%5B%5D=13%3AIndianapolis&Search=

There's plenty of opportunity to move up if you desire.

Exactly Baron. Any one faction that is allowed to run amuck, will destroy the rest. whether this is industry, legislature, Military, or the people themselves, no one part of our system can be allowed total control or to police themselves.

Right now we are reaping the "benefits" of thirty years of Trickle down economics and the promise that industry does not need to be regulated to do good.

Basically, show me -any- area that was deregulated that did not tank

Nothing? I gave you a budget on MW with an extra $400/month.

Bobzilla wrote: http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Indiana/Indianapolis/cheap-apartments-for-rent-4la/?&sort=sortpricelow-asc&page=1 Aprtments showing rent from the $320/month range with utilities paid. No roomate, figure $320 (with utilities).

Where did you find the utilities paid part?

I tried. Reason I ask is I know some places will pay for heat, but most will not pay for electric. If those places pay for both, that sounds like a decent deal.

Remember though, your scenario would only work until someone injures themselves and has to be a doctors or hospital bill. Things will get very tight at that point.