Modern car controls are idiotic and I hate them.

GameboyRMH wrote: Thought about posting this to the minor rant thread but this is a major rant. Drove my mom's BMW 116i a bit yesterday. It really drove home how much I hate the driver interface of new cars and where it all went wrong. (mega-snip)

A lot of the "old ways" are recent inventions. I remember C&D reader mail from the early 90s with people bitching about new cars' multifunction stalks. What ever happened to a pull knob on the dash for the headlights, with a button on the floor for high beams? Why is the wipers on the turn signal stalk when it should be on the dashboard?

Turn the KEY to start the engine? I thought you were supposed to push the clutch pedal all the way down, which mechanically engaged the starter solenoid.

(An aside - why is applying the brake while starting the engine NOT first nature?)

RealMiniParker wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Guess how much it costs to replace a mechanical tumbler switch when it fails? About $25, that a GRMer can do in his shop. Guess how much it costs when your girlfriend's Nissan decides it wants a new "steering lock module" - the part that the fob communicates with - when it's -6°, late at night, and AAA is busy as hell? $1167.92, that's how much! In reply to Jay: How many cars can you drive at one time? Leave all the extra keys at home, man!

I got to replace that module on a 2001 Mercedes C Class...cost about $1,800 and had to be ordered from the factory in Germany..

Why did they move the high beam switch from the floor?

Knurled wrote: (An aside - why is applying the brake while starting the engine NOT first nature?)

It was started in 1992 as a ploy by garage door manufacturers to drive more demand in the market.

oldtin wrote:

RX Reven' wrote:

Funny - perhaps one of the worst control layouts for the 80s - i.e. wipers on a stalk - unless you want delayed wipe, that's a tiny rocker switch under the dash. Interior lights are a little potentiometer wheel under the dash, nowhere near the other light controls, ignition key on the left, floor hinged pedals, part of the hvac system are levers by the seat, other parts are on the dash and some controls are in the console... Don't get me wrong - would sell body parts for another one, and other than switchgear, is very intuitive - just a funny example to throw out as an example of decent design compared to new stuff. I don't get the hate for bmw's i-drive. It's really easy to use. I am surprised how much I like being able to walk up to my car, touch the door handle and it unlocks, hop in, hit the button and it's running. The turn signals and wipers are infuriating.

The 944 had the trip reset button disguised as a vent control in the dash.

I have had my 2011 Jetta for over a year, and still cannot figure out how to reset the clock... or why there are 2 of them showing different times.

NickD wrote:

EvanR wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: Also, buttons don't wear out and fall off of brass keys, and then cost hundreds to replace...my 5 year old GMC fob: Adult male fingers weren't meant to contort into the shapes necessary to reach those little buttons in there to unlock the car or pop the trunk...

I'm curious... what GMC has a trunk?

That's a Terrain key fob.

Ok, I feel better now that I know it's not really a trunk.

And if the rubber buttons are all that failed on the fob, they can be had for cheap on the Bay of E.

Knurled wrote: (An aside - why is applying the brake while starting the engine NOT first nature?)

I have the car in neutral (or Park if it's an automatic) when starting and the handbrake is still engaged, so why would I press the brakes?

Edit: And while the others were fairly common controls, only some '40s Studebakers had clutch-activated starters as far as I can tell.

Controls moving from the dash to (nearby) stalks was a minor change and a functional improvement.

EvanR wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: 2014 Cruze - cannot open the trunk when the car is on...

I have a Sonic and it's a hatch, but they're pretty similar. Check your owner's manual. I *think* if you use the hand brake, you can open the trunk.

Nope - mine is a 6 speed, so handbrake would definitely be applied in an attempt to get out of the running car to open the trunk...no dice.

Ive seen on Cruze Talk that there are guys talking about hardwiring a solenoid to a switch in the console to pop the trunk latch. Parts of that conversation have stated that such a mod might make the key-fob/smartphone app/Onstar Services remote operation of the trunk inopperable, but I dont think a conclusion has been found. Its my understanding that future models of Cruze/Sonic will not suffer from such an oversight, but Im not certain.

trucke wrote: Why did they move the high beam switch from the floor?

It was in the way of where we'd now put a dead pedal, for one thing. And all the other light controls had always been up at dash level (at first on the dash itself, and then migrating to the stalk), so it made logical and packaging sense to put this light control up there with all the others. I'm more inclined to ask why the switch was ever put on the floor in the first place.

oldtin wrote:

RX Reven' wrote:

Funny - perhaps one of the worst control layouts for the 80s - i.e. wipers on a stalk - unless you want delayed wipe, that's a tiny rocker switch under the dash. Interior lights are a little potentiometer wheel under the dash, nowhere near the other light controls, ignition key on the left, floor hinged pedals, part of the hvac system are levers by the seat, other parts are on the dash and some controls are in the console... Don't get me wrong - would sell body parts for another one, and other than switchgear, is very intuitive - just a funny example to throw out as an example of decent design compared to new stuff...

The ignition, pedals and heater controls are all legacy designs from back to the 356. I have a 58 Ghia with all those features (also has a reserve tank like a motorcycle and seats made with hose hair!)

Count me as someone who loves steering wheel controls, too. Maybe I got used to them at an early age since my very first car had them:

trucke wrote: Why did they move the high beam switch from the floor?

Because winter.

keethrax wrote:

trucke wrote: Why did they move the high beam switch from the floor?

Because winter.

I have a different belief. Floor-mounted beam switches hearken back to the days before relays were a common thing (at least in cars). You needed a beefy switch with beefy contacts to handle the switching load of 15+ amps from high to low beam. A switch that beefy would be kind of silly in any dashboard.

Once relays became common, designers had the freedom to use any sort of switch.

I agree that one of the reasons they sucked was because winter, but they HAD to be on the floor until a better solution was found.

oldtin wrote:

RX Reven' wrote:

Funny - perhaps one of the worst control layouts for the 80s - i.e. wipers on a stalk - unless you want delayed wipe, that's a tiny rocker switch under the dash. Interior lights are a little potentiometer wheel under the dash, nowhere near the other light controls, ignition key on the left, floor hinged pedals, part of the hvac system are levers by the seat, other parts are on the dash and some controls are in the console... Don't get me wrong - would sell body parts for another one, and other than switchgear, is very intuitive - just a funny example to throw out as an example of decent design compared to new stuff. I don't get the hate for bmw's i-drive. It's really easy to use. I am surprised how much I like being able to walk up to my car, touch the door handle and it unlocks, hop in, hit the button and it's running. The turn signals and wipers are infuriating.

my Fiat spider is worse...

from left to right..

Toggle switch on left for lights.

Stalk on column for wipers and hightbeams. Wiper stalk only turns on wipers and does delay.

High beam stalk can be pulled back towards driver to flash the high, but must be pulled downwards to turn on the highbeams.

Centre of Dash is the odemeter reset.

In centre of dash are three switches. One controls high and low speed wipers, (which can also be used to control the speed of the delay simply through voltage) Another is the gage dimmer, and a separate switch is for dimming the centre console.

Down on the console we have a two position switch for fan speed and three stalks for heating.

Later cars with power mirrors and windows added to the mess

GameboyRMH wrote:

Knurled wrote: (An aside - why is applying the brake while starting the engine NOT first nature?)

I have the car in neutral (or Park if it's an automatic) when starting and the handbrake is still engaged, so why would I press the brakes? Edit: And while the others were fairly common controls, only some '40s Studebakers had clutch-activated starters as far as I can tell. Controls moving from the dash to (nearby) stalks was a minor change and a functional improvement.

I don't remember what the car was, maybe a late 40's or early 50's Ford, but my cousin had a car that was started by turning the ignition key, then pressing the accelerator pedal to engage the starter.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Knurled wrote: (An aside - why is applying the brake while starting the engine NOT first nature?)

I have the car in neutral (or Park if it's an automatic) when starting and the handbrake is still engaged, so why would I press the brakes?

You mean you THINK you have it in neutral or Park. The number of times I have experienced a car lurching when cranking or after starting is nonzero...

Now, on the other hand, you could turn the key to Run, wiggle the shifter into and out of gear to ensure it is in Neutral (1-2-1-N works well enough), waggle the steering left and right a couple times to make sure the column unlocked, apply the brake (keep from rolling), tap the accelerator (set the choke), and then start the car.

As a bonus, you have now just applied the Konami Code to driving.

4cylndrfury wrote:

EvanR wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: 2014 Cruze - cannot open the trunk when the car is on...

I have a Sonic and it's a hatch, but they're pretty similar. Check your owner's manual. I *think* if you use the hand brake, you can open the trunk.

Nope - mine is a 6 speed, so handbrake would definitely be applied in an attempt to get out of the running car to open the trunk...no dice. Ive seen on Cruze Talk that there are guys talking about hardwiring a solenoid to a switch in the console to pop the trunk latch. Parts of that conversation have stated that such a mod might make the key-fob/smartphone app/Onstar Services remote operation of the trunk inopperable, but I dont think a conclusion has been found. Its my understanding that future models of Cruze/Sonic will not suffer from such an oversight, but Im not certain.

Meanwhile, there are some Fords where you cannot use the trunk button unless the ignition is on.

Infuriating is the remote entry with my Volvo. The key fob does not work with the engine running. So I cannot start the car with the key, then get out and relock it with the fob. Worse, if I get locked out with the engine running, I cannot unlock it.

(Northerner like typing detected)

Kinda an extreme example:

From the Jalopnik review of the 1951 Hoffman. The shift pattern is detent free, and one dimensional. You only know you're in gear (and which gear that is) based on the results.

More modern:

I had a Taurus SHO with a manual transmission, and I constantly found myself popping the hood when I wanted to drive away because the parking brake release is close enough to the hood release for them to be confused. In fact, the hood release is closer to the parking brake pedal than the parking brake release.

Look at the shift pattern on a Hydra-Matic. I believe it is something like PNDLR.

Or the shift pattern on an early 60's Mopar. Pushbuttons for everything and an HVAC-like slider to put it into Park.

Around that timeframe, GM decided to not put a Park pawl in the Corvair's automatic. Neutral and parking brake...