Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I moved to Seattle and now I kind of miss snow. Am I weird?
Just head out to stevens pass when you need snow (5 feet deep!) Thats were I take the kids when they crave it (or wenatchee state park), after about a hour they are ready to go home :) I really like have the snow available on my terms.
GameboyRMH wrote: Climate scientists have actually been very accurate on overall temperature figures - it's interesting that you mention economists, because everything bad that's ever been said about climate scientists is actually true about economists, but nobody cares.
Big plus 1. I don't think most people in this thread actually understand how science works:
Define the research hypothesis for the study, Explain how you are going to operationalize (that is, measure or operationally define) what you are studying and set out the variables to be studied, Set out the null and alternative hypothesis (or more than one hypothesis; in other words, a number of hypotheses), Set the significance level, Make a one- or two-tailed prediction, Determine whether the distribution that you are studying is normal (this has implications for the types of statistical tests that you can run on your data), Select an appropriate statistical test based on the variables you have defined and whether the distribution is normal or not, Run the statistical tests on your data and interpret the output, Reject or fail to reject the null hypothesis.
Yes, they are updating the hypotheses and retesting. But their results are shockingly close to their expectations, and they aren't manipulating the data either. Climate change is real, and we need to remember to look at it on the global scale. Sure, we regularly have very mild winters in the midwest. And we regularly have winters with a lot of snow. But these are merely anecdotes on the large scale. Look at the actual data on a global scale, and everyone should be concerned. Especially those that live in the coastal regions, or expect to live in coastal regions in the next 50-100 years.
In reply to mtn:
The climate has been changing since the beginning of the climate. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it from changing.
Actually we could, theoretically, outright stop it from changing with geoengineering. But that's not the goal, it's just to keep it in the right ballpark for our civilization (specifically in terms of heat, in this case).
Nick_Comstock wrote: In reply to mtn: The climate has been changing since the beginning of the climate. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it from changing.
I don't want it to stop changing. I want humans to stop influencing the change the amount that we are because of our factories, agriculture practices, etc. Because if we keep going the direction we are, there is good chance that humans won't survive. I know the earth will survive whatever we throw at it, but we might not.
It never got above 18 degrees here today. Thankfully no real snowfall yet.
Ahhhh, I used to know a girl who could go either way....especially when alcohol was involved, I miss her so!
mtn wrote: Especially those that live in the coastal regions, or expect to live in coastal regions in the next 50-100 years.
And a lot of those places have either not existed or have been under water in the past, I wish people wouldn't be so arrogant in humanity's alleged role. Our species is merely a blip in the evolution of the planet.
As far as gameboy's "geoengineering" talk, I hope I am long dead by the time they do that, as you should be scared more E36 M3less by that than nuclear weapons, terrorism, climate change, GMO crops, etc. One berkeley up, and it could single handedly destroy civilization.
For those that debate that the climate is changing.. explain to me why I can now (with a lot more experience) sail a 27 foot boat through the North West Passage from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific? Rumors of the fabled North West Passage have killed hundreds of men over the centuries as ships have gotten stuck in the ice and sunk and the men froze trying hike to civilization...
Now a small 27 foot sailboat can do it
mad_machine wrote: .. explain to me why I can now (with a lot more experience) sail a 27 foot boat through the North West Passage from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific?
Clearly, it is because a significant portion of the polar ice has melted.
Oh boy, not this thread again. 
Please do your research. It's awkward when people post stuff about cars that makes no sense and shows fear and ignorance. Why should posting about science be any different?
Tom Suddard wrote: Please do your research. It's awkward when people post stuff about cars that makes no sense and shows fear and ignorance. Why should posting about science be any different?
Well said.
In reply to Tom Suddard:
Tom Suddard wrote: Oh boy, not this thread again.
Thank you for that. I couldn't agree more.
As people who know how excess heat can screw things up.. it seems that it would be fairly easy to explain how global Warming can lead to "climate change".
As you add more energy into a system (heat) you get action. The Summers get warmer in place, and cooler in others, and the winters get colder in some places and warmer in others... the thing to remember, that just because it is cooler here, does not mean it is not a lot warmer someplace else.
Last winter while the East Coast was dealing with one of the worst winters in years.. they did not have enough snow in Alaska to run the Iditarod properly
In reply to mad_machine:
I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement on that. I'm not even sure if we're all reading the same thread. I think a lot of you are doing a whole lot of reading between the lines.
Kendall_Jones wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I moved to Seattle and now I kind of miss snow. Am I weird?Just head out to stevens pass when you need snow (5 feet deep!) Thats were I take the kids when they crave it (or wenatchee state park), after about a hour they are ready to go home :) I really like have the snow available on my terms.
that isn't a bad idea
In reply to mad_machine: For the northwest passage thing.... How about the fact that we have been coming out of an ice age for hundreds of years? Who is to say this climate we have been living in and enjoying is anything close to "normal" for the earth.
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yamaha wrote: In reply to mad_machine: For the northwest passage thing.... How about the fact that we have been coming out of an ice age for hundreds of years? Who is to say this climate we have been living in and enjoying is anything close to "normal" for the earth.
it's not the amount of warming.. it is the speed of it. We are warming now faster than earth has ever warmed before. Where before this kind of warming would take a few hundred to a few thousand years, animals and plants would adapt, and life would go on. Now with the more rapid pace, they do not have time to evolve to either fit their new range of temps or to change their range to stay in their accepted temps, so you can expect quite a few extinctions in the near future
In reply to mad_machine:
Well berkeley it then, let mass extinction occur, hopefully they don't put a warning label on it so the stupid people all die first. 
mad_machine wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to mad_machine: For the northwest passage thing.... How about the fact that we have been coming out of an ice age for hundreds of years? Who is to say this climate we have been living in and enjoying is anything close to "normal" for the earth.it's not the amount of warming.. it is the speed of it. We are warming now faster than earth has ever warmed before. Where before this kind of warming would take a few hundred to a few thousand years, animals and plants would adapt, and life would go on. Now with the more rapid pace, they do not have time to evolve to either fit their new range of temps or to change their range to stay in their accepted temps, so you can expect quite a few extinctions in the near future
How is this known? We are talking a warming trend of 50 to 100 years that is being blamed on humans. In geological time, that is a blink of an eye. In the billions of years the earth has been around, do we really know with any accuracy temp changes of a few degrees within a few decades?
My problem is that if anyone questions something like this, they are ridiculed as a flat earther. That and the fact that even though they say it has been happening for decades, that their models are always inaccurate or filled with flawed assumptions, we have to act now. This year. Can't wait until we come up with a real plan that can make a real difference. We have to blindly spend huge amounts of other peoples money to solve the problem. The proposed solutions don't even involve any real R&D for new technologies.
It just stinks of a money grab.
It may all be 100% accurate! but the climate scientist and experts are doing a huge disservice in the way that they are marketing on pure scare tactics.
The people that are not on the global warming bandwagon are not going to be scared of any data or report finding and are not going to be convinced by a debate that doesn't ever allow for models or assumptions to be questioned.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't for a moment NOT believe that global warming (aka climate change) is going on … just because we have a cold winter occasionally doesn't change the fact that it's getting warmer …
I DO believe that this is nothing new …it's been going on (and the reverse… global freezing) for millions/billions of yrs ….
I'm also VERY open to the idea that we humans are probably causing a quickening of this upward trend
what I don't know is what (if anything realistic) can be done about it … do we ban all internal combustion engines ? do we ban all coal fired (gas fired also) power plants ? how do we shut down the growth of 2nd and 3rd world countries ?
lots more do we's ???? out there .. those were just the first 2 or 3 that came to mind
sure I'm part of the "problem", but I'll be long gone before the "problem" becomes catastrophic
1988RedT2 wrote:NGTD wrote: BTW, its no longer called global warming - its global climate change. It can go either way - the extremes get more extreme.Call me a cynic, but to me that sounds a lot like backpedalling on the part of the fearmongers
Plus, the Midatlantic region, at least, has been experiencing the mildest weather in decades this year.
This is why it's called GLOBAL warming and GLOBAL climate change. This crazy ass weather system was the result of a typhoon cell hitting Canada and moving all that polar air south. The eye of this cold system landed just south of the great lakes, but the Canucks are unseasonably warm.
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