In reply to infinitenexus :
No doubt. Skoolie will always check the "cool" box. That's why I want to build one.
I disagree that you will ever have a skoolie motorhome that is super cheap. You will ALWAYS have to add the renovation costs, plus a year of your life. Occasionally there ARE cheap RVs that are ready, functional, and reliable.
I looked at both options and ended up going the truck and trailer route. One item that I didn't see raised: the buy in cost is significantly lower for a truck and trailer compared to a comparable motor coach and dinghy vehicle.
I was looking at early 2000s 30 foot or so class A and C coaches that were running $25000 to $28000 for ones in good shape last year. Add in a dinghy and you are looking at an easy $30,000. I am into my 2013 Suburban and 2013 28 foot travel trailer together $20,000 and I sold my Land Cruiser for about $10k and use the Suburban as my daily, so I am really into the camper setup for $10,000. That's a big difference.
We're heading to a big RV dealership here in a few minutes to go look at some in person. Not to buy, but just to see how they feel, and maybe imagine renovating one.
Ultimately, if we decide to do this, we're looking at getting a half-ton truck and a large trailer. We're kind of minimalists and live in a small apartment anyway, so the size will be fine for us.
So here's a question on tow pigs. Ford 3.5 ecoboost, Ford 5.0 Coyote, or some version of Chevy with an LS? Or does it even matter? I imagine all of them will tow sufficiently well if we keep a trailer in the 7-8K lb range, and it'll just be a matter of personal preference.
Before you dive into a skoolie, make sure you fit. I'm 6'1" and I remember in high school I had to duck on the bus. Not much headroom. The skoolie I helped build was all good for the petite lady that was using it, except the shower. Even at 5'4" we had no real means of getting the shower above her head if we were going to use a gravity feed, so she had to pony up for a low tank with a pump. I've seen other skoolies with a sit-down shower.
I do love me some 5ers. My current permanent RV at the lake is a 5er and I love it. For longer tows or vacations, I prefer a TT simply because I have more useable bed space for bikes, motorcycle, kayak, etc. Right now, my only tow vehicle is also a van, which kind of limits me to a TT... or outfitting the van for camping... which is in the plans
In reply to infinitenexus :
For me, that would have to do with how many hours per day on the road in the vehicle (including time not towing).
If I was gonna tow an 8ooo lb trailer 8 hours per day, day after day after day, I'd choose the LS. Its a workhorse, and maintenance is easier. If I was gonna tow for a couple days then stay parked for a month and be driving the truck around daily, I'd choose the 3.5 EB. Its a better ride, and a better daily place to be.
In reply to infinitenexus :
My personal preference would be LS, but they will all pull fine. Look for something that has tow capacity at least 1/3 in excess of the fully loaded weight of your trailer. You don't want to be towing maxed out for extended periods.
Half ton plus big TT is a no-no. Half ton plus a big-ish 5er can be done.
Never (ever) use a TT's GVWR to compare to your vehicle's tow capacity. Flatbed with a Miata? Great. TT? Nope. Manufacturers are absolutely bent on making the biggest TT with the lightest weight. Then you think "great, my F150 can tow a 32' trailer" and you end up hating life or dead in a ditch.
A travel trailer is a billboard that attaches to your truck by a 4' lever. All the side forces of sway, trucks passing, or a gentle side wind get translated into big leverage on the truck's hitch. At least a 5er puts the fulcrum directly above the axle which gives it zero mechanical advantage. Think of it this way. Imagine grabbing the bed of a truck directly above the back wheel and pulling as hard as you can. How much will you flex the sidewalls, the spring bushings, and the springs? Now imagine doing the same thing pulling on the hitch ball with 4' of leverage between you and the axle. Now imagine how much force is being applied to the side of a 32' TT compared to a 26' when you get a side wind.
Other factors to consider: A lot of the things that make a vehicle good at towing make them not as good at DDing; wheelbase, higher rated tires, stiffer springs/shocks. Newer trucks make this almost a non-issue. An F250 these days rides and feels nicer than an Explorer from 10 years ago. They are also far more capable of towing well than their older siblings. Just be aware that buying a new F150 that can tow 10,000 lbs does not translate to "oh look, there's a 36' TT with a GVWR of 10,000." Please don't die.
If you need lots of space and want to maximize the DD-ness of the tow rig, please stick with a 5er. Night and day difference in towing.
bgkast said:In reply to infinitenexus :
My personal preference would be LS, but they will all pull fine. Look for something that has tow capacity at least 1/3 in excess of the fully loaded weight of your trailer. You don't want to be towing maxed out for extended periods.
Given the output per cubic inch of most modern trucks, I don't think that power/torque will be an issue with any of them. 30 years ago you could get the biggest displacement V8 gas engine and still only have 215 hp/350 tq.
Displacement means a lower torque peak RPM in general on an NA engine, so I would choose one of the larger options just to not require as much shifting and high revs, but they'll all be pretty capable.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Agreed. The chassis is where it's at and you nailed it in your post above.
A cpl years of wv campervan ownership, 19 years owning a p30 class a, knowing a few pals with trailers and 5th wheels, and then having this '89 Foretravel 36' 3208 Cat since 2013 has given me some strong opinions on the subject. Travel trailers suck and so do p30's and all equivalents. If you're going to live in it, it should be a nice place to live in. It shouldn't kick your butt to drive. It should have enough carrying capacity to haul all your stuff. It should have enough tankage to get you between hookups comfortably. This prettymuch narrows you down to diesel pushers. Most p30 chassis are at near max gross weight before you fill the tank. Pile your stuff in and then go for a drive and wonder why you avg 1 or 2 blowouts a year? No thanks. Done widdat.
Of all of the diesel pusher outfits, Foretravel is the only one with *parts support*. I hate to be such a dern fanboi but that right there? It's important. When one of the basement bay door latches broke, I called the factory and they sent one on up. They made their own chassis along with using Gillig and such but you want the ones on their chassis. Is about the only big rig out there where the front end was designed to not have bump steer. I cannot emphasize enough how nice that is. This old 22,000 lb coach drives like a big car. No steering corrections needed. It rides on air, stops on air, has Rockwell commercial truck hubs, and just *works*. Yeah, tires were 2600 bucks a set. Meh. Is not too bad, spreading that out over 7-10 years. Insurance is cheap. A good one from early 90's can be had for less than a tow pig needed for any big trailer. We avg about 11 mpg not towing. We pull into a spot, spend 15 seconds leveling, push a button to set the awning out, and we're ready for beer and bbq, and watch the trailer people spend the next 45 minutes setting up.
Towing, I'd either flatpull a lightweight, or put whatever I wanted to on a flatbed. Best o' luck with whatever you settle on, I'm jealous of your upcoming lifestyle. My wife and I are thinkin this bus here is gonna be our retirement cabin, maybe Yellowstone needs us as park rangers for awhile...
PS
Curtis73 speaketh the truth. 5thwheel> trailer in prettymuch every way but that dictates very much what you're gonna tow it with.
We just went to a pretty decent size RV dealership and checked out a bunch of trailers. It's us plus our 5 month old, although if this even happens it'll be a minimum of 18 months from now. With that being said, we felt some of the 32-33 foot ones with slide outs were sufficient, but really the 5th wheel checked all the boxes. Man, those things are awesome. I don't think anything else will compare to it.
So for the next year or so we'll just be saving and dreaming about a 5th wheel and I guess something like a used F250 or GM equivalent. Some of those trailers felt larger (and definitely nicer) than our current apartment.
Tow a small car with a motor home.
Source: I have driven a 36 foot motor home to Alaska and back, owned 5 pop up trailers. I currently own a 24 foot Motor home and tow a Chevy Sonic.
Why? Well when we would get to where we are going, it is nice to park the big rig and then adventure locally with the small car. In Alaska we towed a jeep Cherokee and then drove the Jeep to the arctic circle.
In Alska everything gets filthy.
Current Rig:
Current tow:
Cheers
I prefer GM over Ford based on personal experience. Didn't look at the turbo 6s though. The LS makes good power, the fords I drove were dogs. We picked the 4.8, as the cylinder deactivation 5.3 has issues. Look at 2 numbers, capacity and tow weight. Chances are you will hit the capacity limit first. Also, do not go beyond 80% of these numbers, 70% is a better number. If you are at 80 or higher get a 3/4 ton, the chevy 6.0 is a great motor. 4 speed autos are a compromise, but they will work.
If you are minimalists a lot of trailer can be had in the sub 20 foot group. Bedroom and separate dining area are nice, sucks to turn a couch or dinette into the sleeping space. Make sure both agree that the shower is big enough. Many shower spaces are too small to turn around. The advantage to this size range is they are easy to fit into tight spaces and less subject to wagging around.
Again, you need to set a price target. It can be done for 20K, 30k probably now that trucks and campers are experiencing a feeding frenzy. You can also easily spend 100k.
Check out the intek terra oasis trailer. They are absolutely stunning.
In reply to EricM :
I really like the thought of having a good motorhome and pulling a small car, but someone's comment earlier (I think Curtis?) struck a bell with me: if your motorhome needs engine work, you're out of a house for a while.
porschenut (love the name, by the way) we need a larger trailer since we'll have a toddler when we decide to do this, and two cats. We checked a few smaller trailers and they were nice, but just not nearly enough space. Ultimately, we would prefer a 5th wheel.
In reply to infinitenexus :
FWIW, we met a couple this summer who lives out of campgrounds, and they have a young kid. They really love it, as does their daughter. Just before heading to Texas (from Michigan) for the winter, they got a 5th wheel. And spent quite a while debugging it- using it to find the faults, handing it back and letting it get fixed. Helps that they have a large TT to also live out of.
Here in MI, they mostly live at state campgrounds, as they are much less expensive than private ones.
In reply to alfadriver :
If all goes well, we'll homeschool our little guy for a few years while doing this. Eventually we would find a place to live and settle down and buy a small house, but we would like to start him off right with a good edumacation. Plus, there's a ton of people out there that live like this and homeschool their kids and they seem to be doing fine. If they can do it, I know we can!
I just love the thought of waking up in the morning, pulling back the curtain next to my bed, and seeing the coast of California or the mountains in Colorado or something similar.
Let's see, my running total has been six TTs, two 5ers, one Class A, four Class Cs, two slide-in pickup campers, and one hybrid which I got for free and got rid of it after one camping trip.
My whole life I have basically spent Memorial day to Labor day in a camper, and I full-timed for 7 years. So I've spent about 1/3 of my life in an RV of some sort. Safe to say I'm an avid RVer.
With your crew a 5er makes sense. Shop for a one ton truck with duallys. Be careful about camper length, spaces taking over a 35 foot trailer can be tougher to find. COE campgrounds will be good choices for you, there is a lifetime pass that cuts the fee in half. Have you checked out irv2.com yet?
Porschenut goes back to my first aol email, haven't owned one for almost 20 years but I like the handle too.
I've done the pop-up, the skoolie, 5th wheel, slide-in truck camper, and a smallish class A.
If you are going to live in it, get the biggest box with slides you can afford and tow it gingerly wherever you are headed. The big ones don't tow very well. Frequently, not only is the truck overloaded, the TT chassis is as well. A google search will show lots of 30+ foot boxes on their side in a ditch not far from a 1/2 ton or larger truck. Be careful towing, keep the speeds reasonable and it can be done safely. Keep in mind that unless your wife is driving another car, you will be stuck driving a full-size truck everywhere.
This rig drove reasonably well and got 6 mpg at 70. The truck is a 96 Ford F350, the TT is a 97 Jayco. Total weight was just shy of 20k pounds. With 2 slides it's not a bad place to live. This TT has a little over 100k miles on it, most of it behind my father's Dodge 2500. The diesel towed it better than the 460 Ford. The Dodge also got 9-10 mpg instead of 6-7.
If you are going to travel in it, get a Class A and a toad you can enjoy. When buying one, much like the TT and truck you don't want the chassis maxed out. GVWR on my F53 is 18k pounds. With everything loaded it tips the scales at 14k-15k. The GCWR is 24k pounds so when I hook the XJ to the back, I'm still well under the chassis weight. It drives very well. I can set the cruise at 72 and run with traffic with one hand on the wheel. Total weight of this rig is also right at 20k pounds.
It has the advantage of being able to tow whatever I feel like driving when I get to my destination. Sometimes that's the XJ, sometimes it's a race car on a trailer. This one is a 1996 Ford F53 chassis with a 31' Tiffin box on it. Tiffin is one of the better motorhome builders. My only real complaint is the shower was built for someone half my size. The total cost for this rig, including the XJ was about $8500.
Another thing you might consider is power and rental costs at your destination. Most seasonal sites have metered power. TTs and motor homes aren't very efficient compared to a house. The propane furnaces can suck down a lot of gas in a month's time and the A/C units can use a good bit of power as well. You can offset that by following the weather. North in the summer and south in the winter.
Sites can run $300-$700 a month with metered power, plus another couple of hundred for power or water. Sites without metered power tend to be pretty expensive. Decent campgrounds that you actually want to stay in can run $750-$1500 a month. Add to that the cost of buying a TT or motorhome and the expenses can get pretty high. Make sure your budget can take that hit.
Toyman has a nice rig and at this size a class A does make some sense compared to a 5er. Personally I hope I never need that much of an RV.
porschenut said:With your crew a 5er makes sense. Shop for a one ton truck with duallys. Be careful about camper length, spaces taking over a 35 foot trailer can be tougher to find. COE campgrounds will be good choices for you, there is a lifetime pass that cuts the fee in half. Have you checked out irv2.com yet?
Porschenut goes back to my first aol email, haven't owned one for almost 20 years but I like the handle too.
I'm wearing a Porsche shirt as we speak and the last time I owned one ws 2009!
I just bookmarked irv2.com, thanks!
In reply to Toyman! :
Personally, I love the thought of a nice used class A with a redone interior towing around a 996 on a trailer, visiting the occasional race track and using it to just enjoy areas. My son will be around 2 when/if we decide to do this, so he'll fit in the back of a 911 with a booster seat just fine when we ran errands. Of course the 911 would be incredibly impractical, so in reality we would just keep our Prius. It's nice to dream though. My main concern is that if I have an engine problem on the class A, we're out of a house until it gets fixed. Also, the only ones that are affordable tend to be 20+ years old (that I've seen so far, at least) and there's a good amount of RV parks that won't allow RVs older than 15 years.
Whether we get a class A or a truck/5th wheel, we'd most likely keep it under 65 on the highway to save gas. Also, we would be staying at places for a month at a time in many cases, maybe longer, which in some cases offers a discount. 3-4 months down at Macdill AFB by Tampa in the winter months is one of our specific plans, and as long up in the Finger Lakes in New York. We'll probably follow the weather, at least sometimes. Another future plan would be solar panels/battery bank.
Also whatever we get, we'll be buying used. These are depreciating items, so there's no way I'll buy one new. This morning I found several 15-year old 5th wheels in great shape for 12-15K, and there wasn't much difference between those and the $105K 5th wheels we looked at the other day beyond color and a few other things we could do ourselves in a few weekends.
Toyman! said:Make sure your budget can take that hit.
From the math we've done over the past couple days, taking into account staying longer lengths of time, and using things like Boondockers Welcome, and buying our rig used, we should be able to do this for less money than we currently pay for our current lifestyle. Add in an extra 20% for safety and it's still equal to where we're at now.
In reply to infinitenexus :
My Tiffin is 26 years old. I have never been turned down at a campground. I think the only place you run into that problem is at the expensive resort campgrounds and those aren't the places I want to stay anyway.
As to mechanical trouble, that was one of the reasons I bought an F53 chassis. The engine is a dead-simple big block 460, the transmission is an equally simple and cheap E4OD. Basically the same as the trucks from that year. 95% of the chassis parts are shared by the F500 medium-duty trucks which are cheap and available anywhere. I had to replace a rear brake caliper and pads a year or so back. The pads were $50, the caliper was $36 and in stock at the lock FLAPS. No special orders, no waiting on parts from a medium truck or RV shop.
If you can wait a couple of years, the record number of units sold during the pandemic will be hitting the used market and driving the prices way down. From what I've been reading, there are signs of it now and it will pick up the pace as people don't use them and try to get rid of that monthly payment.
In reply to Toyman! :
If this even happens, it'll be some time before we start--an absolute minimum of 18 months. I have seen some cheap class A motorhomes that were 20 years old or so, and one was a Tiffin. What kind of gas mileage do you get with your setup? We won't be driving every single day; our plan is more a month here, two months there, but gas mileage is still a consideration.
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