Neighborhood 'held hostage' by teens

I think you guys are missing a few things here (I suspect):

• If you shoot them with paintballs (or rock salt), you will likely get real bullets in return.
• If you harass them in any way, you will likely get terrorist like actions in return.
• Their parents either : couldn't care less what they are doing or could not do anything about even if they did care. I'm sorry did I say parents, silly me.
• I highly suspect the "victims" here can barely afford expenses, much less video cameras and such.

I don't think we are talking about "typical" teenagers in some "typical" suburban neighborhood, and I don't think any of them are named Beaver or Wally.

true on all accounts.. however the high frequency thing is cheap and by all accounts, nearly untraceable.... especially if they can get all the houses on the sstreet to broadcast it

Big ass mean dog That or a shotgun. Pump that sucker once and watch them run.

A whole lot of life's problems can be solved with one of these.

Its like the miata of the shotgun world, Cheap, doesn't break, and moves fast enough to surprise people. Everyone should own one.

My guess is you couldn't use the high frequency thing and the big ass mean dog as a combo.

Problem is, you may not know where the punks live but they know where you live and likely when you're home and when you aren't.

Shawn

96DXCivic wrote: Big ass mean dog That or a shotgun. Pump that sucker once and watch them run.

The gun...or the dog? If it's the latter, I would sure as hell stay away.

Trans_Maro wrote: Problem is, you may not know where the punks live but they know where you live and likely when you're home and when you aren't. Shawn

and they probably have plenty of free time financed by the gov't

JohnGalt wrote: A whole lot of life's problems can be solved with one of these. Its like the miata of the shotgun world, Cheap, doesn't break, and moves fast enough to surprise people. Everyone should own one.

Rem. 870? I prefere the mossy 500 m self but would get a Rem. for a Tacticle build due to pump release location. E36 M3 like this makes me Glad to live out in the sticks.

Jensenman wrote: Rock salt was the non-deadly weapon load of choice back when I was a kid. IIRC you could even buy preloaded low power shotgun shells for just that purpose. Anybody who knows how to reload a shotgun shell can easily do it. I never got peppered with it but my dad said he did when he was a kid and it stings like crazy. The worst part is it keeps on stinging for a few days.

It was/is? popular with New England lobster fisherman. A friend of mine was peppered in the backside while tring to "liberate" a few as a youngster.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29474213/ A New Zealand town is gonna use Barry Manilow on some Mall Rats, now that's just cruel and unusual. The reaction of the young Miss Emma Belcher, at the end of the article, made me wonder about how moronic/douched a human can be legally classified.

JohnGalt wrote: A whole lot of life's problems can be solved with one of these. Its like the miata of the shotgun world, Cheap, doesn't break, and moves fast enough to surprise people. Everyone should own one.

My brother has one. He hates it. Not because its a bad gun, but because he wants a nicer one but can't justify it while this one is working. So he has tried to break it.
He has... dropped it in mud, dropped it in a lake, let it sit wet for about a month in a bag, accidentally drop it in sand... Nothing will break it. NOTHING.

Cincinnati had some similar problems with hooligans stinking up the joint with their funk of inbred-ness, and their solution was putting in more and brighter streetlamps in these areas, with thick lexan (bullettproof) lenses. Idiots dont like hanging out where they can be seen. Worked in a few areas...only problem was, once the local retards figured out what was hapening, the city workers began to get harrassed while installing the lamps. Gotta start somewhere though.

aircooled wrote: I think you guys are missing a few things here (I suspect): - If you shoot them with paintballs (or rock salt), you will likely get real bullets in return. - If you harass them in any way, you will likely get terrorist like actions in return. - Their parents either : couldn't care less what they are doing or could not do anything about even if they did care. I'm sorry did I say parents, silly me. - I highly suspect the "victims" here can barely afford expenses, much less video cameras and such. I don't think we are talking about "typical" teenagers in some "typical" suburban neighborhood, and I don't think any of them are named Beaver or Wally.

Then here's what needs to happen: these 'kids' are playing a grownup's game, so to speak. At some point, the gloves have to come off. Yeah, that means someone will probably get hurt.

Jensenman wrote:

aircooled wrote: I think you guys are missing a few things here (I suspect): - If you shoot them with paintballs (or rock salt), you will likely get real bullets in return. - If you harass them in any way, you will likely get terrorist like actions in return. - Their parents either : couldn't care less what they are doing or could not do anything about even if they did care. I'm sorry did I say parents, silly me. - I highly suspect the "victims" here can barely afford expenses, much less video cameras and such. I don't think we are talking about "typical" teenagers in some "typical" suburban neighborhood, and I don't think any of them are named Beaver or Wally.

Then here's what needs to happen: these 'kids' are playing a grownup's game, so to speak. At some point, the gloves have to come off. Yeah, that means someone will probably get hurt.

When you see us in SC, ask Matt to tell you about the punk-ass neighbor kid who used to live across the street

Anyway, I thought of this thread when I heard this on the radio yesterday:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29474213/

The hired off-duty cop is also REALLY affordable and REALLY effective. If that doesn't work, I like the "pellet gun ambush" approach. They can't retaliate if they don't know who's shooting at them.

What a bunch of Bob Costas! Grab a kid, have them call their parent(s) and get it dealt with. I know that parents in my neighborhood did that whenever my friends and stepped out of line.

While that worked well back in the day, this is a really good way to get your ass arrested, if not sued.

Yeah, anymore some lawyer will have a field day with your ass if you overtly try to protect yourself and your property. That's why it has to be done covertly. Like I said, a grownup's game.

aircooled wrote: I think you guys are missing a few things here (I suspect): - If you shoot them with paintballs (or rock salt), you will likely get real bullets in return. - If you harass them in any way, you will likely get terrorist like actions in return. - Their parents either : couldn't care less what they are doing or could not do anything about even if they did care. I'm sorry did I say parents, silly me. - I highly suspect the "victims" here can barely afford expenses, much less video cameras and such. I don't think we are talking about "typical" teenagers in some "typical" suburban neighborhood, and I don't think any of them are named Beaver or Wally.

I don't think we are missing these things. These are not gang members or real crimminals, they are punks and no has established a basic concept of action and reaction. Hell, my dog gets this concept. If they are looking to expand drug sales turf, then yes its a real problem. But what you have is foul motuhed kids with spray cans and no supervision.

No the parents don't care, that is obvious, hence the ownership of their actions have to come back on them. The basic tenant of any security situation is not to eleminate threats, it is simply to make the payoff less than the risk. If a kid is wanting to spray paint a house and gets lit up by a set of high powered paintball guns from unknow sources (hence creating an enviroment of fear, because you don't know who), the payoff is no longer worth the consequences. If they steal groceries and three of them are beaten severely, by unknown peaple, they will find another place. If they are fornicating on a sidealk and hit by a firehouse, they will reconsider where they go for "alone time."

According to you, due to the threat of greater retalitation, the residents should do nothing. Well that has put them where they are now. I do suspect it is a social norm in that region of the country to approch things a bit differently, but I grew up in several redneck neighborhoods and even though it was a different time, we simply did not have these problems. The consequences were beyond what we wanted to risk. If you were up to no good good, you knew where to go, and it was places where peaple did nothing.

In the early 90's I lived in a crappy section of a crappy small town and we had some hooligan kids a few doors down. When you moved in there they would push to see how far they would get with you. I established very quickly it was not far and in addition to several other things I made sure I was standing in my yard when the squard car took them away. The other neighbors had done the same and they learned quickly about conseqeunces with me. After 2 weeks, I never had another issue.

But given the nature of how they got here, I suspect the residents will do nothing, start selling or renting their houses and let someone else deal with this problem.

poopshovel wrote: If that doesn't work, I like the "pellet gun ambush" approach. They can't retaliate if they don't know who's shooting at them.

For that I'd recommend this, plus a ventilated barrel tip:

Yes, technology has advanced to a point where you can accurately hit something with a paintball from a distance

Reaction to getting hit by a paintball:

"Oh E36 M3! Someone's shooting paintballs at me!"

Reaction to getting multiple hits from a BB/Pellet gun:

"WTF!?...OW!...WHAT THE berkeley IS THAT!?...BEEEES!!! EVERYONE RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

On the other hand, reaction to getting hit by a paintball with the velocity turned up way too high:

"AAAAGHHH berkeley E36 M3 berkeley berkeleying MOTHERberkeleyER!!!!" x balls per second

Ask me how I know.

All Clint Eastwood style: "I hear young punks with filthy mouths bleed Yellow."

Punk kid: "What the berkeley did you say old man?"

(Fully auto paintball gun sounds:) BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!!!

GameboyRMH wrote: On the other hand, reaction to getting hit by a paintball with the velocity turned up way too high: "AAAAGHHH berkeley E36 M3 berkeley berkeleying MOTHERberkeleyER!!!!" x balls per second Ask me how I know.

I have scars on my shoulders and chest from that.

We used to go to the public places where they would test the guns before they would let you in with your own equipment.

Line sounded like this:

Kid in front of me, his gun "chuft chuft chuft."

My buddy's "BAP BAP BAP BAPBAPBAP"

Mine "BAP BAP BAP BAPBAPBAP"

Guy checking out the guns "uhmmm..... yeah. NO."

Mental wrote: ....According to you, due to the threat of greater retalitation, the residents should do nothing....

Actually, no I didn't. I didn't say anything remotely like that.

The problem with vigilante "style" actions is that although they are great for movies, the side effects can be unpleasant. First of all, you could very easily be arrested for various crimes and could be sued by the targets (who probably have very little to loose). Secondly you could insight them to "up the ante". And, as noted, since they likely (depending on what you do) will know who you are or where you live you will be at a great disadvantage (e.g. you have to go to work, they don't).

Gran Torino (the movie) is actually a fairly good example of this. Clint retribution works at first, but clearly he is at a disadvantage and is quickly put into a corner. I suspect his solution to that situation is NOT the solution most will be looking for (don't want to spoil the movie).

That being said, I generally agree with the statements made. These kids really need a good ass kicking, but I am not sure anyone should try and do that from their front porch. I also cannot say for certain these kids would escalate things as badly as implied, but you never know. Remember, being a "banger" is cool now, give you "street cred", so even the stupid rich kids get in on it sometimes.

aircooled wrote:

Mental wrote: ....According to you, due to the threat of greater retalitation, the residents should do nothing....

Actually, no I didn't. I didn't say anything remotely like that. The problem with vigilante "style" actions is that although they are great for movies, the side effects can be unpleasant. First of all, you could very easily be arrested for various crimes and could be sued by the targets (who probably have very little to loose). Secondly you could insight them to "up the ante". And, as noted, since they likely (depending on what you do) will know who you are or where you live you will be at a great disadvantage (e.g. you have to go to work, they don't). Gran Torino (the movie) is actually a fairly good example of this. Clint retribution works at first, but clearly he is at a disadvantage and is quickly put into a corner. I suspect his solution to that situation is NOT the solution most will be looking for (don't want to spoil the movie). That being said, I generally agree with the statements made. These kids really need a good ass kicking, but I am not sure anyone should try and do that from their front porch. I also cannot say for certain these kids would escalate things as badly as implied, but you never know. Remember, being a "banger" is cool now, give you "street cred", so even the stupid rich kids get in on it sometimes.

Fair enough, I did take that out of context. But there is also a big difference between "Bangers" and real criminals. I get the you have to got to work bit, but that is an additional element of anonymity on the part of the residents. Yeah, you have time to get back at them, but who? I have no doubt there would be a reprisal, but consistancy and organization of behalf of the residents could win out. These are punks and organization and planning are not a strong suite. They are reactionary, this makes them predicatable and it makes them controllable. You just have to be willing to take advantage of that.

Once again, off-duty cop FTW. It gets really cheap and effective if everyone chips in. Not so much if everyone just wants to complain, but won't put up the coin to fix the problem (which is all to often the case.)