New OT laws

I've read this thing a couple times and it seems clear and muddy at the same time.

Under $47kish is clear.

What is the HCE benefit for? Why is it present?

Thanks!

http://www.fastcompany.com/3060032/heres-how-the-new-overtime-law-will-affect-you

From what I understand it is to keep companies from making everyone a "manager" on paper and working them to death. I've flat out told employers that I won't go salary for less than a set amount per year because I KNOW it means 50+ hour weeks minimum. Being salaried isn't a "perk" it is just easier on the accounting paperwork.

Huckleberry wrote: http://www.fastcompany.com/3060032/heres-how-the-new-overtime-law-will-affect-you

Thanks, your link says nothing about the HCE clause.

chandlerGTi wrote: I've read this thing a couple times and it seems clear and muddy at the same time. Under $47kish is clear. What is the HCE benefit for? Why is it present? Thanks!

Not sure if you're asking why the HCE clause exists or what it is. One example of an HCE clause is sales. You may have a salesperson with a base salary, let's say $35k, but also has a commission structure. With commissions, they might be making $100k+ a year. In that case, they are a Highly Compensated Employee, and not eligible for overtime pay. (At least, that's how

-Rob

This law is a decade overdue, and employers of retail stores are going to cry bloody murder, but if you work 50-70 hours a week, you should GET PAID FOR IT. The amount of BS that they've gotten away with is stomach-churning. One of my previous employers is about to almost double their payroll either through finally hiring more people or having to cough up overtime finally. The owner will wail and gnash his teeth because he won't be able to buy that 4th boat so soon.

chandlerGTi wrote: What is the HCE benefit for? Why is it present?

That was under the old law and it excepted such positions as managers who make hiring/firing decisions and outside sales reps. The new law does not have it.

Until I cyphered out that OT referred to overtime and not off-topic, I was mightily confused. I couldn't figure out how no political threads had anything to do with $47k

Javelin wrote: This law is a decade overdue, and employers of retail stores are going to cry bloody murder, but if you work 50-70 hours a week, you should GET PAID FOR IT. The amount of BS that they've gotten away with is stomach-churning. One of my previous employers is about to almost double their payroll either through finally hiring more people or having to cough up overtime finally. The owner will wail and gnash his teeth because he won't be able to buy that 4th boat so soon.

It is true that you should get paid for the time you work and this is long overdue ... but it's not just the employers who will be wailing as a result of this correction. The money has to come from somewhere... or the doors close. So, either customers will wail about the increased cost of doing business or the employees will wail that they have no job.

Business models and budgets have been built around the old rules and those that have taken full advantage will hurt.

slefain wrote: From what I understand it is to keep companies from making everyone a "manager" on paper and working them to death. I've flat out told employers that I won't go salary for less than a set amount per year because I KNOW it means 50+ hour weeks minimum. Being salaried isn't a "perk" it is just easier on the accounting paperwork.

In my position, it means that some weeks I get in at 9:30 and leave at 4, and other weeks I get in at 7:30 and leave at 6:30. I'd expect it averages out to slightly below 38 hours a week at work, and an additional 1-2 hours a week at home. I'm a fan of salary.

Every dealership parts department is now royally screwed, finally, it needed to happen.

Whelp... looks like I'm about to get a great big raise.

And/or we will have to have a big discussion on what sorts of activities are working and what are "volunteering" (e.g. Festivals).

They'll either adjust the hourly rate, or make their salary $10/year more than the minimum.

Just like Wendy's is rolling out Kiosks for all the people wanting a $15/hr min wage.

Not saying it's right, just what will happen.

Beer Baron wrote: Whelp... looks like I'm about to get a great big raise. And/or we will have to have a big discussion on what sorts of activities are working and what are "volunteering" (e.g. Festivals).

You can't "volunteer" for a for-profit business, that's also illegal. You do work, you get paid.

It's amazing how few people understand what salary is or have the slightest clue about the FLSA.

It's not a new law. It just raises the minimum.

And it is most definitely not a raise for most people. It's a political wedge issue, to make some people who don't understand their rights as employees think one party likes them more than the other party, even if it ultimately means loosing their job.

At this moment in time, it only increases the incentive for employers to have staffs of almost entirely part time workers.

dculberson wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: Whelp... looks like I'm about to get a great big raise. And/or we will have to have a big discussion on what sorts of activities are working and what are "volunteering" (e.g. Festivals).

You can't "volunteer" for a for-profit business, that's also illegal. You do work, you get paid.

Brewing industry. This applies to like pouring beer at community festivals or showing up as a representative at like a tap takeover. The sort of mandatory 'volunteer' thing happens a lot with small craft breweries that don't yet pay official sales & marketing reps.

This is why this is going to be a big raise for me.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Maybe not.

The FLSA exempts outside sales people.

If your company classifies you as outside sales (or management, creative, executive, or admin), then you sir, will be exempt and continuing to "volunteer".

...my point is that the FLSA laws have existed since 1938, and increased political pressure will only force companies to look harder at the rules that exist, and understand the right (and wrong) ways to maximize the savings within the context of the existing laws.

Companies have been sloppy (like asking you to "volunteer"), and they will get better.

Most people will NOT get a raise. They will get (carefully) reclassified.

Your job will be more carefully defined. You will be given managerial responsibilities (or sales, etc) if it is beneficial to the company. If your job responsibilities clearly put you in the "non-exempt" status, then they will be careful to avoid asking you to work overtime. Perhaps hire a part-timer, so they can also avoid the cost of the health care coverage.

Uber is an excellent example. They fight the employment status because their long term game plan is to not have any employees. Right now, they need to keep winning the decisions about "subcontractor" status (and they WILL- it's not that hard).

Not that it affects me, but do these changes affect/override state laws?

In Nevada, if your base rate is more than 1.5x the minimum wage, the employer is not required to pay OT after 8/day, only after 40/week.

SVreX wrote: At this moment in time, it only increases the incentive for employers to have staffs of almost entirely part time workers.

Not really. There's no additional cost for 3 employees @40hours/week, as opposed to 4 employees @30hours/week. It just disincentives them from having 2 employees @60hours/week.

This will have no impact on employees who are already hourly rate. Only people who are salaried for the purpose of being able to work them >40hours/week without having to worry about overtime.

One perk may be that instead of earning O/T an employee may be able to just...go home. Imagine that. I love companies that tout "work life balance!" while only rewarding employees that work 80 hour weeks.

Of course what REALLY will happen is that employees will just be forbidden from working over 40 hours a week but still be required to finish all the work they were doing BEFORE the law changed. If they don't they will get negative performance reviews, either making them ineligible for raises or bonuses, and possibly costing them their job for NOT getting the job done. Oh, and employees will not report their own hours over 40 out of fear of being reprimanded or not being a "team player". Everyone wins! Oh wait, no they don't.

In reply to Beer Baron:

I think we are saying the same thing.

The incentive I was referring to was this:

You sounded like you are paid hourly, but work "free" for festivals, and that others in your industry do too.

Therefore, it would benefit a company to hire several part timers to man the festivals (or other things), to make sure your hours do not exceed 40 per week.

And BTW, your math is wrong. 4 employees @30 hours per week are cheaper than 3 employees @ 40 hours per week, because every time there is a festival, they can make the 4 employees work up to 40 hours with no overtime penalty. Additionally, if you reduce the 4 employees to 29 hours per week, they are no longer eligible for the healthcare benefits of the ACA.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: If your company classifies you as outside sales (or management, creative, executive, or admin), then you sir, will be exempt and continuing to "volunteer".

According to this new clarification of the rules, it means I will have to be paid more, or they'll have to control how many hours they ask me to work. I can easily be called "management" in a position as "Head Brewer". However, I'm paid significantly less than $47k/year. These new rules clarify that we can't play the "exempt" card if I make less than that threshhold. I can't keep being asked to put in consistently >40hrs/wk and not be compensated for the true hours I work.

In reply to SVreX:

I am paid salary. I consistently work >40hours/week. Probably 45-50/wk average. I am currently paid $37k/year for this. If they don't bump me up over this threshhold, any time I work a festival or evening event will pretty much guarantee I would go well into overtime without any additional pay.

In reply to Beer Baron:

You probably won't be. That's my point.

They will make sure your Head Brewer job is limited to 40 hours per week, and hire a part time doo-flunky to do all the other crap you do.