North Korea

Delete this if you think it's "politics"

I am being serious with the following

Kim Jong-un has more than been drinking the Kool-aid. He's born in it. North Korea has been a gigantic propaganda machine, and he has always been inside it. He probably believes we are actually the world evil. He is crazy, brainwashed, and any military action by either one of us will result in needless casualties.

Let's do this.

Let's bring him over here. Let's have a meeting. Bring him, and any bodyguards he feels he needs, to DC to meet the pres. Bring him to a few different places. Show him life can actually be pretty darn good for everyone. He may not actually know this.

Could we avert war?

I believe that he spent a significant portion of his life in Switzerland. FYI.

Wrong, the machine over there operates on the principle that "Dear Leader" is god.

They are also steeped in Juche (or however the hell its spelled) so they desire extreme isolationism.

When you mull over the implications of those two things you start to see that it will likely never work.

You are operating under the impression that Kim has some virtue. The actions of the regime over the last decades betrays this as neigh upon impossible. Their leadership (party officials) operate in extreme egotism. They run camps of their own people where entire families are thrown if one person does not toe the party line.

You really think any of them are going to "see the light" when they are starving and killing their own people in prison camps?

Hell, at this point China is scared of the refugees if that regime collapsed. (millions on impoverished and starved north koreans trying to leave all at once)

Also, what MTN said.. IIRC he went to school in Europe

mtn wrote: I believe that he spent a significant portion of his life in Switzerland. FYI.

From what I read, details and confirmations are about people who looked maybe sorta like him under assumed names - so maybe, but it's been a while...

I think we should be concerned with the cyber attacks on South Korean financial system and the submarine attack, both of which are attributed to North Korea. More to worry about those successful attacks than what I hope is only loud mouthed posturing about rockets and such. North Korea needs food and other goods from the outside, but I am not sure if Kim cares enough to let that deter him from being very rash.

His father ordered six figures of Cognac per year, tons and tons of luxury automobiles, etc.

They are perfectly aware of life outside of N. Korea, the elite enjoy their status, and I'm sure the "Ills" have no intention of losing the power they have access to. And they are well skilled in throwing temper tantrums to get the resources they need.

I generally enjoy your reading your position on politics (even if I don't always agree) but I think you are being naïve on this one.

I'll just leave this here in the event things do go south.....figuratively and perhaps literally. I don't want to see any of our troops stuck in that hell again, the last one was already a forgotten war.

I still think they can't keep it up forever. Any speculation that perhaps they want to be invaded--and then given the billions of dollars its going to take to rebuild?

Relevant link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/nature/inside-north-koreas-environmental-collapse/

Some thoughts:

As noted, being invaded by the US can be seen as a "good move" for NK. See Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_That_Roared

The leader is WELL aware of what actually is going on. The PEOPLE have no idea. Some way of getting internet to the NK people (air drop portable computers... I don't know) would probably be the most effective weapon. Might expensive, but still way cheaper then bomb, aircraft carriers etc.

The man is a posturing fool, but has managed to ring the dinner bell for the defense industry in the US. It really kills me that we are just getting out of two huge money pits only to seemingly be heading full on into another one (very conspiracy theory worthy)

I've played war-games with mentally deranged dictators and despots before. They believe their own insanity and their own ravings.

No, I don't think your notion will work. Fundamentally this is the problem with bringing back anyone who is insane. They prefer their insanity to reality.

mtn wrote: I believe that he spent a significant portion of his life in Switzerland. FYI.

Beaten.

Yeah I think he's actually quite sane, or if you prefer, crazy like a fox

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/01/opinion/haggard-north-korea

tuna55 wrote: ... Bring him, and any bodyguards he feels he needs, to DC to meet the pres. ... Could we avert a war?

I don't live in DC but I'll do what I can.

Idk why but this feels right

I see the points made here. I'll retract my idea.

z31maniac wrote: I generally enjoy your reading your position on politics (even if I don't always agree) but I think you are being naïve on this one.

I actually really appreciate this response. Thanks

tuna55 wrote: Delete this if you think it's "politics" I am being serious with the following Kim Jong-un has more than been drinking the Kool-aid. He's born in it. North Korea has been a gigantic propaganda machine, and he has always been inside it. He probably believes we are actually the world evil. He is crazy, brainwashed, and any military action by either one of us will result in needless casualties. Let's do this. Let's bring him over here. Let's have a meeting. Bring him, and any bodyguards he feels he needs, to DC to meet the pres. Bring him to a few different places. Show him life can actually be pretty darn good for everyone. He may not actually know this. Could we avert war?

Un has more channels and better internet then I do, I'll bet money on it. He wants control, power, and attention.

Osterkraut wrote: Un has more channels and better internet then I do, I'll bet money on it. He wants control, power, and attention.

He's walking a fine line; any mis-step and he'll lose control and power because all the attention he gets will be from satellites, AWACS, drones and B2's.

At best, he could get prosecuted by the UN for committing war crimes and genocide - not against South Korea, but for the atrocities he (and his family) have perpetrated against North Koreans.

Un may be crazy like a fox, a fox with rabies.

But will he add NOZ?

He is still pissed at the onion, me thinks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/28/world/asia/chinese-news-site-cites-onion-piece-on-kim-jong-un.html

JtspellS wrote: Idk why but this feels right

You have no idea how true that is to my emotions right now. I'd be pleased if Canadians could read written English at this point.

NK's despot is completely nuts. He was raised to think he and his father are gods. It doesn't matter whether or not he spent years going to school in Europe, because even if he did, the entire time he was there he thought of himself as a god among mortals.

I'm really worried by the fact that we have troops stationed in and around South Korea and completely FUBAR'd our military with the across-the-board budget cuts that Congress instituted by refusing to prevent the "sequester."

Can you imagine being South Korea? I would want to pull a Bugs Bunny and cut at the 38th parallel and float myself out into the ocean as far as I could.

Yes, i know it comes from cracked, but it is actually worth it.

Full article

Cracked said: What You've Heard: On paper, North Korea's military looks pretty scary. It's the most militarized country on the planet, has the fourth largest army in the world and spends a larger portion of its GDP on the military than any other state. E36 M3, how is it not dangerous? Actually: North Korea may spend a huge chunk of its GDP on its army, but its GDP is tiny -- which shouldn't surprise you, considering the chief exports are requests for food aid and passive-aggressive threats. In actual dollars, North Korea's military budget is only five to eight billion dollars. By comparison, South Korea's military budget is over triple that. Actually, South Korea spends more on its army than North Korea has in its entire budget. This is important because South Korea is North Korea's most likely target, and most experts agree the South would now destroy the North before America had time to get their aircraft carriers wet. That's because North Korea's advantage in raw numbers has some pretty serious caveats. Their most advanced weapons are based on technology from the '60s, and some of that cutting-edge equipment probably isn't functional because of fuel shortages and poor maintenance. Of course, you could have an army of a dozen paraplegics with Nerf guns and still be a threat if you had nuclear weapons. But while it's true that North Korea does have a nuclear program, they lack the technology to effectively deliver a warhead. Imagine North Korea as Wile E. Coyote, and the rest of the world as the Road Runner. The Coyote may be able to afford a giant ACME anvil, but he doesn't know how to accurately drop it on the Road Runner -- he'll miss, and maybe even hurt himself in the process. North Korea's nuclear program is like that, except if the Coyote got lucky and somehow scored a hit, the Road Runner would turn around and obliterate him. Again, the media's version of events relies on the very specific appeal to reason that assumes because a country could do something, they might actually do it. For instance, President Obama could text a picture of his junk to The New York Times right now. He has the technological capacity to do it. Nevertheless, we can say with one hundred percent certainty that he won't do that because it would be suicidal. That's why experts agree that North Korea isn't going to start a war, nuclear or conventional. It knows that if it did that, step two would be getting quickly turned into the world's largest parking lot. So instead, it's going to sit around and lob ridiculous threats at the West like the YouTube commenters of the international community. And our media is going to read them to us on the nightly news.

It is all just posturing.

if people take him even slightly seriously, he can negotiate some terms to get some aide, in return for him not going to war with.. everyone.

if they don't, all he has to do is ACTUALLY start the war. then America will step in, kill some of his people and then he "goes into talks" we pay to rebuild is his empire.. all the while he tells his people that we surrendered, or apologized for attacking the great the NK.

there are a few other possibilities, but they all easily end with NK getting all kinds of aid from other countries, and it not looking like a handout.

JtspellS wrote: Idk why but this feels right

Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap.........

I wonder if the Chinese are kicking themselves yet for preventing us from actually finishing the job the first time.