In reply to KyAllroad:
Nah, blaming violent video games is perhaps a cop out, that is covered by a blanket statement of bad parenting and lack of personal responsibility.
In reply to KyAllroad:
Nah, blaming violent video games is perhaps a cop out, that is covered by a blanket statement of bad parenting and lack of personal responsibility.
Yeah, but kids grew up watching john Wayne shoot up injuns and I've never seen anyone go OK corral on the casino out here. I refuse to believe violent content is responsible for this. Can it contribute, yes. But I've met just as many dysfunctional mouth breathers on for a as I have GTA. If parents taught a little more act right and a little less johnny is special, we'd have fewer problems. Of course I gave up on society the day I saw a kid get an award for paying attention.
I think mndsm has touched on some of it. In life not everyone is going to win at everything, for there to be a 1st place there must necessarily be 2nd, 3rd, etc. and if one wants to not be 3rd then they need to work to improve toward 1st. That lesson needs to be learned early, along with another: temper tantrums should always produce the OPPOSITE of the tantrum thrower's desired effect. There's some ad for a DVR? shows a little girl pitching a FIT because some video got wiped and instead of telling her 'tough, get over it' the parents are all 'aww, we'll make it up to you', that one is a perfect example of what I'm thinking of.
Kids who do this and get away with it grow up thinking there are no real boundaries and that can be dangerous when they find out oh yes there are some. Perhaps this kid discovered that disappointment was harder to deal with than he thought and in reaction he chose the later age equivalent of a temper tantrum. But I'm probably wrong. 
BTW in 'Clockwork Orange' it was 'ultraviolence', not 'hyperviolence'. Just straightening out the term.
I was bullied, killing someone never occurred to me, I did a lot of bodybuilding and got left alone
mndsm wrote: Because we can't just fight after class and be done with it anymore and we have parents that do too much to protect the bullies. There's no repercussions anymore. When I was a teen, I was an outcast. Kid kept starting E36 M3. I laid him out. No one ever berkeleyed with me after that and the teacher let it ride. Nowadays I'd be in jail and hed be the victim, so this crap keeps getting bottled til these kids have no place left to go.
their's a LOT of truth in what mndsm says … add to that, that the media outlets are all over each and every event, and other kids get the idea that this is something they could do …
I truly believe that if we were to stop the news casts about these events that there would end up being fewer of them … but there's no way to muzzle the "freedom of the press" in this country …and overall that's probably a good thing .. but as with and thing else, too much of a good thing isn't good
rebelgtp wrote: May the shooter rot in hell.
even more … may the parents of the shooter rot in hell … as described in your post, often the kids don't have any real idea that what they're doing is wrong … doesn't excuse them, but the kids themselves often aren't the root problem .. but yeah, may the shooter rot in hell.. and the media cover that as much as they cover the event, so others could POSSIBLY learn something from it .. .other than I'll get all the attention I want by doing this
Will wrote: I don't know. Maybe MNDSM is right, and that kids today are so sheltered that the first time something bad does happen to them, they have no idea how else to deal with it. I doubt that can be the only cause, but maybe it's part of it.
and that's the only reason that I consider the "violent computer games" as a small part of the problem…
yes, when I was growing up we had all the Lone Ranger, et al Sat afternoon shootum ups … but it wasn't a constant …hit reset and do it all again … where the norm in the games is to kill as many as possible
and then again maybe I'm full of E36 M3 … LOL … I was an adult when Pong hit the market … so my POV is totally skewed from what's todays norm
Unfortunately it appears to be a combination of things that are contributing to this trend. While I don't think POV shooter video games are the lone culprit--- they certainly de-sensitize kids to killing. They are also so realistic now, that it isn't as much of a stretch from reality to fantasy.
Thug culture / gangsta rap also plays a contributing part. When a kid is singing along about shooting people, and beating up women, over and over again--- it plays a part. What is worse is the glorification of the "don't give a berkeley" attitude---- cause....yeah....that makes you cool.
The biggest problem as I see it is a lack of parenting. I have many friends that are teachers, and to be honest.... I don't know how they do it. How do you reach a kid when the family they come from places NO value on education? If parents actually show up for parent- teacher conferences (and aren't high or drunk) it's usually to tell the teacher how bad they suck---- because their little angel could never be anything but perfect. I've had teacher friends of mine get physically attacked by parents--- because hearing that their kid wasn't perfect was unacceptable to them.
When the Colorado Columbine shooting happened they found an arsenal of weapons at the kid's homes. How did the parents not know what was going on? When I was a kid my Mom found EVERYTHING I was trying to conceal--- because she gave a damn, and she made sure I realized I didn't have rights like an adult.
Our parents are failing us, and the news media feeds on it.
Thug/Gangster Culture appears in gang violence, something kind of different than nerdy kid shoots up school or popular kid goes apeshnit. I blame urban violence on that culture. A white kid in a suburban neighborhood listening to rap may think thug life is awesome, but until a "real" gang puts a gun in his hand or one of this homies is shot up by a rival gang, that suburban kid will grow up alright. Put the same kid (of any race) in a poor city with a crime problem and he has a good chance of ending up in jail or knowing someone who did.
But that same city kid who grows up in a family where education and intelligence is prized, sports are an afterthought, and rap is outlawed (or just not heard) in the house, he will probably turn out alright too.
Suburban kids grow up different. Parents who spend more time working or worried about the Jones' and not enough about spending time with their kids. Parents who put incredible pressures for their kids to do well in school and sports. Parents who think "i've raised my kid right, he's a good kid, he just likes playing video games 24/7."
It seems like most school shootings with mass targets (not gang related) happen in suburban areas.
Why? What is it about the middle-class suburban upbringing that creates school shooters?
I don't think lack of parenting is an issue in every case either. This kid in Washington by all accounts had a good family environment.
One thing to remember too is that in most school shootings the shooter is attempting to commit suicide. If these kids don't realize what they are doing is wrong, or they want attention, wouldn't they want to stay around to see the media response to their actions?
Columbine was the first major school shooting where the kids targeted lots of people and took lots of lives. No parents ever imagined that happening. In Colorado, where "gun families" are very common, it wouldn't surprise me that many kids during the late 90's had access to an arsenal of weapons that their parents just assumed they enjoyed shooting for fun.
Today, lots of gun families like to tout "our children know right and wrong and would never use a gun against an innocent life", but the kids still shoot up schools.
Back to the whole thug thing for a moment: when I was a kid none of us (regardless of race) EVER wanted to look like they'd been in jail. Now there's the whole busting a sag baggy pants thing which is straight from prison culture. Not saying that's what led to this shooting, just pointing out a change in attitude over the years.
The vast majority of 'middle class gun families' experience no incidents like this. From a percentage basis it's vanishingly small, although terrible when it does happen. On the other hand, shootings are quite common among the inner city thuggy types, it doesn't really draw attention.
Maybe there is a link: wanna look like a thug, bust a sag and carry a piece, swagger around, settle scores with shootings like the hip hop/rap singers glorify. Gotta represent.
And we have to make sure to separate the two types of violence in order to even attempt stopping either.
Inner city schools have metal detectors. Suburban schools do not.
Youth violence in urban areas is usually gang, drug, or retribution related, and it happens outside of school.
It would be beneficial to know the amount of kids in rural and suburban areas that involved in gun violence outside of school.
I was dork of the school from as far back as I can remember to high school. I got picked on a lot and stood up for myself sometimes. I didn't weigh 150lbs (soaking wet) till my senior year of high school so when I did stand up I usually got kicked back down (I think my best fight ended in a tie. The worst fight ended with 4 guys on top of me stuffing snow into every possible orifice).
I had plenty of access to firearms (and knives. Not always of the hunting variety). Thinking back, it was a LOT more access than I think I should have had.
My step dad was a coke head and... well, was coke-head crazy. Lets just leave it at that. (am I sharing too much here?)
Was into gangsta rap (I thought it made me cool).
So "why"?
Parenting:
Threats of discipline with no follow through.
Ignoring kids to work or keep up with the Jonses and too much focus on what other people think.
Inability to cope with failure.
I blame the parents.
In high school, kids are still learning how to be part of society. The basics are laid in the very early years (which makes imparting the basic lessons of life at these ages VERY important to have a foundation to build on!) but there is a stew of craziness (for lack of a better term) going on.
Humans will always spread out on a bell shaped curve for anything; intelligence, social skills, etc. It's possible to be at the pointy end of one bell curve, the middle of another, tail end Charlie of the next. That is what is wrong with handing out rewards just for showing up; it ignores this basic truth that can't be changed.
Anyway, my point is that developing coping mechanisms is best imparted when kids are at a very early age and sometimes it's strange/unpredictable how/where those lessons are learned. I once dropped a soft drink in a McDonald's parking lot; I had a fit and kicked the cup as far as I could, hollered at my mom to get me another. I was maybe 5 or so. She straightened my young ass out QUICK- that behavior was NOT acceptable, I had no one but myself to blame for the loss of the drink and since I was going to act like an ass no it was not going to be replaced. Sure, it was basically a little thing but to this day that lesson stays with me.
The reason I think about this particular incident is that more than once I've been in a restaurant, seen kids demanding this and that, behavior that would have had me bundled out the door into the car to possibly a spanking. Yet in these instances the behavior is tolerated, the kids are NOT taught boundaries, they are even rewarded for it; I have seen one throw a cup under the table, make a nasty mess, his mom said nothing just went to the drink machine and made him another. That worries me; how will they handle this kind of stuff later in life? Does it happen with them that when thwarted they do not understand that it happens and you gotta live with it so they consider it acceptable to go grab a gun and start shooting?
In reply to Joe Gearin:
My wife started working in an Elementary school two years ago, K -4, and I think you are right on the money. There are young kids in that school, kindergarten and 1st graded, that cuss out, hit and bite teachers and run around the school like it is nothing. It blows my mind. Parents are not doing their job and the children and society as a whole is suffering because of it.
I'll echo what many here are saying, I think its a combination of factors, not the least of which are parents and the coddle society we are now in. Trophies for showing up, mommy and daddy thinking their kids do no wrong, and most importantly I think, making your entire life center around your kids.
When I was growing up, we were always on the edges, not the absolute center of attention all the time. There was not constant going to ball games, plus 10,000 other after school activities. The entire house wasn't our playground, and we didn't have every toy known to man, all piled up in our rooms. We received gifts on birthdays and Christmas, and maybe for something once in a blue moon. Now, kids get toys, games, phones, etc., etc., on an everyday basis. Nothing is special anymore, except little Johnny and Susie where they are the center of the universe for their parents.
My sister who is a Dean for a University, and who has been a college professor for 30 years, has said the deterioration of the students is alarming. It used to be that when a student got bad grades, the parents would show up and want to know what their son or daughter needed to do to pull up grades, now its to the point where they are threatening her and the university for them not getting good grades. They think if you pay your money, then they should pass with A's and B's.
Also, I blame the constant social media. Every kid now wants to be a star of some sort, and social media allows that to some extent. It creates an almost unnatural desire to be famous I think, while insulating you from having an real responsibility for you say or do. The lines of fantasy and reality are blurred.
And personal responsibility is definitely declining, and unless we change our course, this will only get worse over time.
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