Odd towing issue - any ideas?

Good family friend of ours called me last night. Having issues with pulling his snowmobile trailer with his new truck. Basically the trailer is bullying the truck everywhere. Wind gusts push the rig around, buffeting from semis is an issue, braking causes puckering, etc.

He has been towing stuff for probably the better part of 40 years, all the time. He thinks the problem is the new aluminum body on his truck is too light (I don't think that is his problem). His old truck (a 3/4 ton Chevy) had no issues with this trailer. His son in laws truck (a 3/4 ton ford) has no issues with the trailer. He wants to add a 500lb weight to the bed of his truck to see if it helps. I'm not hopeful that solution will help.

Details:

-2017 f150 quadcab long bed 4x4 5.0l, 20k miles, ish. Aftermarket rear springs with higher rate. Was a salvage truck that has been rebuilt.

-2200lb 4 position covered snowmobile trailer, fully loaded call it 6000/7000 lbs. New tires on trailer very recently. Dual axle.

-he has hooked the trailer to other f150s and says they squat excessively. His doesn't because of the springs.

So, what should he try? He likes the current truck of course but would rather get a 3/4 ton than spend 2k on upgrading his existing truck. Also, remember that snowmobiling happens in winter, so big away bars and weight distributing hitches can be a bit sketchy in winter conditions.

I think his trailer tongue weight is excessive. What say you?

I would put the tongue (at the height it is when hooked to the truck) on a scale. 

Is the ball height the same as the other trucks hes towed it with?

The salvage truck part stands out to me. What was the situation it was salvaged from? Maybe something wasn't put back together right and it squirms under load.

An aluminum bodied Ford is lighter than a steel one, but they are still horrifying piggish sloths...

Something is wrong with the truck.  My XC90 will tow a Neon mini stock car on a light trailer,  3500 lbs ish, and you'd swear it wasn't there.  So...

Height of the drawbar?  Forgot to tighten the U bolts on the springs?  26 inch 30 series stupidtires? Hitch is not bolted to the frame properly?  Way too much tongue weight lifting the front instead of compressing the rear, due to overload springs?

I don't know the height of the draw bar. It is something he has been playing with though, and he did measure the height that he had dialed in on his chevy before he sold it so he could match that starting point with the new truck. Wheels on the truck are stock.

I also am worried about the salvage damage. Apparently it was in the middle of a pileup and got front and rear body damage and an airbag. It is one of his close friends that does the rebuilding however, and truck owner trusts them. Truck owner has also been a Ford dealership mechanic for many many years, so he knows his own way around a truck, but could make mistakes like anyone else. I'm worried about the electronic trailer sway system working correctly after the salvage work ... Perhaps it is "working" incorrectly and adding inputs that actually make things worse.

Seems like his truck should be rated for at least 8600lbs. Which  means it might not be super happy about towing 7k but definitely shouldn't be scary. I'd say it's also something about tongue weight, probably too little. If other f150s he's had it on had the same static ride height but squatted more, they probably ended up with more tongue weight due to the angle of the trailer.

What's on the truck for tires?

A HALF TON truck should not be attempting to tow 6000#. @ 7000# he may be overloading the Axles unless they are 8 lug

It might move it, but not with any authority, Stopping it is another story.....  I hope the trailer has brakes and an Inertia controller.

Is it even a Long Bed? Towing with a long wheelbase chassis is a night /day difference.

My choice would be a F350 + 4x4 for the snow, Crew cab for the long wheelbase stability.

Maybe a F250 with a factory towing package.

There's no such thing as overkill, with towing safety in mind.

bentwrench said:

A HALF TON truck should not be attempting to tow 6000#. @ 7000# he may be overloading the Axles unless they are 8 lug

It might move it, but not with any authority, Stopping it is another story.....  I hope the trailer has brakes and an Inertia controller.

My half ton truck is rated for 12k lbs... many are these days.

As to the question at hand, I'm suspect that the tongue weight is too low, the trailer isn't level, or both. The truck tires could be amplifying the problem if they are P-metric or hard metric tires and are underinflated. LT tires at proper inflation pressures would provide better stiffness under heavy load conditions.

bentwrench said:

A HALF TON truck should not be attempting to tow 6000#. @ 7000# he may be overloading the Axles unless they are 8 lug

It might move it, but not with any authority, Stopping it is another story.....  I hope the trailer has brakes and an Inertia controller.

Is it even a Long Bed? Towing with a long wheelbase chassis is a night /day difference.

My choice would be a F350 + 4x4 for the snow, Crew cab for the long wheelbase stability.

Maybe a F250 with a factory towing package.

There's no such thing as overkill, with towing safety in mind.

This is incorrect. 
 

My half ton quad cab F-150 is factory rated for 13,700 lbs. 

I can almost guarantee he's got the load poorly balanced on the trailer. 
 

Problem is, I would have said the weight is too far to the REAR. That would cause that exact scenario.
 

You seem to be describing a situation that may be tongue heavy, which is odd.  
 

Heavier springs do not make his truck have a heavier towing capacity. 

I think it's the 4 position trailer. 
 

You didn't tell us how it was loaded. I'm betting it only had 2 snowmobiles on it in the front positions when it caused other trucks to squat, and that he now has 2 loaded on the rear. 

My '96 F-150 was rated to tow 9,000.

According to Ford:

"A 2017 F-150 with the 5.0-liter Ti-VCT V8 engine, which offers 385 horsepower and 387 pound-feet of torque, can tow up to 10,100 pounds and haul up to 3,270 pounds"

Also...

Check the wheel bearings on the trailer. 

After checking the suspension and steering for play front and rear, then I'd look at the alignment. 
 

If possible check measurements for alignment (toe, caster, camber), wheelbase, and thrust angle with the truck empty and then check it all again with enough weight positioned properly in the bed to create the same ride height front and rear that he has when towing.

Another vote for too much tongue weight. 

No Time said:

After checking the suspension and steering for play from and rear, then I'd look at the alignment. 
 

If possible check measurements for alignment (toe, caster, camber), wheelbase, and thrust angle with the truck empty and then check it all again with enough weight positioned properly in the bed to create the same ride height front and rear that he has when towing.

 

 

 

 

This was my initial thought as well.  Particularly if it was hit hard enough to salvage out that early in it's life.  My suspicion is definitely bad alignment or tweaked frame. 

I also agree it sounds loaded wrong.

I'm not sure he tried 2 in front but he did try both 4 loaded and 2 loaded middle-ish.

He's working on getting a real tongue weight number with 4 loaded to know for sure.

Trailer wheel bearings are a good thought.

Here's an interesting video demonstration of how weight distribution affects towing stability:

If nothing has changed except the truck then something is different with the truck. Assuming that statement is correct then the truck is broken or else it handles worse than older trucks did. Since that makes no sense to me then I am going with a broken part or even a cracked frame that only shows up under stress. Could even be a broken suspension bolt or an egged out hole.

Robbie said:

-2200lb 4 position covered snowmobile trailer, fully loaded call it 6000/7000 lbs. New tires on trailer very recently. Dual axle.

I think the weight estimate is high, unless he's packing a lot of gear into the trailer with the sleds.  

Depending on the sled, they should only be about 600 lbs each, give or take a hundred lbs. 

When loaded properly, the extra 2 sleds should have minimal impact on the tongue weight since the skis end up over the axles. If anything it might lighten the tongue weight having 4 if the rears are loaded too far back. 

In reply to No Time :

That's true, IF the sleds are loaded forward when there are only 2. 
 

If they are loaded rearward, it would make a very big difference. 

dculberson said:

Here's an interesting video demonstration of how weight distribution affects towing stability:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6mW_gzdh6to?rel=0

 

Exactly.  One of my favorite demo videos. 
 

That's why I am saying the trailer is loaded too heavy to the rear. 

If a trailer is loaded tongue heavy, it will make the steering light, and a little squirrely, but it won't feeling like the trailer is "bulleying" the truck.