Oh snap. Job offer in San Jose, CA

After job hunting for the past ~ 4 months I have finally reached the offer stage with a few companies and one of them is a hardware company in Silicon Valley. I was initially interviewing as a remote prospect with the intention of moving to Oregon (that possibility is still on the table), but they also said that if I'm willing to relocate to work in San Jose that they can sweeten the deal considerably and provide a relocation bonus. They have been clear that they really like me and bumped the title I interviewed for up a level to tempt me, so I'm seriously considering the offer.

I'm aware that the cost of living is crazy everywhere in the Bay Area and I would definitely not plan on being there for the rest of my life, but it seems like it could be a fun detour for a few years and make a great story in the future. I'm not getting any younger and I probably won't have too many more chances to do silly stuff like this in my life. The house I own in Wisconsin is small (just over 1000 square feet) so it would be easy to condense my crap down to a 1 bedroom apartment, and the market is so white hot right now I can sell my house with no worries.

Honestly the hardest part would be getting rid of all my tools and garage stuff, but I would almost definitely settle into a S2000 or something after getting out there and just try to run HPDEs all over California on weekends.

So, just how bad is life in Silicon Valley? I know many of you wouldn't touch anything in California with a 10 foot pole but it seems like it could be a great experience for a couple of years. (BTW, no kids, and SWMBO is also interviewing for work in the area.)

I would move to California in a heartbeat if I could maintain the same standard of living I have now. 

But I don't suspect anyone with my title is going to find a $200k+/yr job there. And I'm not sure that would even be enough given the tax rates. 

According to Zumper, the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is over $2100 a month. How much sweetness are they adding?

YOLO. I'd do it in a heartbeat to be close to the Pacific Ocean (and a couple hours from Tahoe for snowboarding). The drive from SF down to Monterey is stunningly beautiful. 
 

Scope out apartments.. if rumors are true and everyone is leaving California, maybe there are some favorable lease deals. Doubt it though. It's probably crazy expensive but... you can negotiate. 

OHSCrifle said:

YOLO. I'd do it in a heartbeat to be close to the Pacific Ocean (and a couple hours from Tahoe for snowboarding). The drive from SF down to Monterey is stunningly beautiful. 
 

Scope out apartments.. if rumors are true and everyone is leaving California, maybe there are some favorable lease deals. Doubt it though. It's probably crazy expensive but... you can negotiate. 

It's really just the $$$$ having tech folks from the Bay Area driving up prices in Austin, North Carolina, and a few other places. 

Located up the peninsula in Belmont, good luck.  San Jo was a quite city, really growing up.  If I wasn't here helping my old man I would be gone. Glad to be in the Bay as it is 100F inland and I turned soft and can't do the heat.  

I did this whole thing about 4 years ago from Boston, but with a 1 year old. Now I have 2 kids, and I'd do it again. I'm in the East Bay (Richmond), so it's not exactly the same, but some pros and cons that I've found:

Cons:

• It's expensive. You knew this, but it's everything that's more expensive. Income tax is high. Sales tax is 10%, or close enough to not matter. Gas and food are more. And, at least up here, it doesn't really seem like you're getting much for that increased cost. Schools suck, roads suck, property crime is pretty high, homelessness is rampant. 
• Fire season is intense, and it seems like it gets longer every year. Even if you're not impacted directly, you're going to experience at least a few days where the AQI is abysmal and you wonder if it's OK to go outside. 
• Traffic sucks, so live close to work.
• This will be easier for you without kids, but traveling back to see family/attend things like weddings and funerals is tough. It's a logistical challenge and flights are expensive. Check into flights between your hometown/wherever you'll fly most and San Jose, since driving into SF to fly out can be a pain.

Pros:

• The weather is insane. You basically never have to check if it's going to be nice out, you can plan outdoors activities months in advance, and if you don't like the weather where you are, microclimates are a real thing. Head to the coast for cooler weather, inland for hotter (it will be hot in SJ).
• The great outdoors is vast and nearby. You really don't have to drive for long to get to some of the most beautiful places in the country. 
• There are 3 excellent race tracks within a few hours (Sonoma, Thunderhill, and of course, Laguna Seca). I haven't been as involved in Autocross here as I was on the East coast but there are a few good sites that won't be a huge haul for you.
• Car culture is everywhere. You could do a cars and coffee or drive or track day every weekend day of the year if you wanted, and most weekdays too. Obviously most of the stuff I'm aware of is in the East and North bay areas, but DWA cars and coffee and their rallies are sorta Santa Cruz based, which won't be far.
• Speaking of car things - the backroads are incredible. Roads from San Jose over to the coast are phenomenal driving, and as much as locals like to complain about oblivious people not moving over and letting you by, at least some of them do, which is more than I can say of anywhere else I've tried to do some spirited driving. Speed limits are high enough on a lot of these roads that you won't even be breaking the law.
• If you live in a single family house, odds are good it will have a garage. I don't know what the East Coast has against garages given the snow situation, but they seem way more prevalent here. It will probably be small, but don't give away all your tools yet.
• Produce/food in general is way better here (for the most part). Fresh food doesn't have to travel as far to get to you, so it's easier to get good produce all the time, but especially when it's in season. Apples are a notable exception to this.
• Wine country. Also, breweries, although they can be kinda IPA heavy.

Overall, I'd do it again. We probably aren't staying too much longer since schools are terrible and my kids are rapidly approaching the age where that's a real concern, but it's been worth it.

I've lived in the SF Bay Area all my life (63 years) and can't imagine leaving. I can snowboard at Tahoe in the morning, water ski in the warm waters of the delta in the afternoon and go for an evening surf in the pacific as the sun sets.

Yes it's expensive here. Brutal. But I'll bet your not getting offers anywhere else close to what they're offering you to come here. My son in law started out at $180k at a tech firm. STARTED OUT. My daughter does animation and makes almost as much. Money is not an issue for them.

And for every person that's leaving California (I don't know any) there are apparently two or more moving here. Rents that plummeted at the beginning of Covid are back to where they were. The house across the street just went into escrow at $400k over the listing price. Young couple in their 30s with two toddlers.

I really like to use MIT's living wage data as a baseline for situations like this. You're probably not talking about low paying jobs that would have you just scraping by like the calculator does, but we can still use the data to compare the two locations.

It looks like they estimate 2 working adults without kids to need about $75k income before taxes to just scrape by in San Jose area

That compares to $46k annually for the same theoretical couple in the Milwaukee area

It seems like basic cost of living type expenses are about 60% higher in San Jose than Milwaukee. That means I'd want my annual income to be at least 60% higher in San Jose than Milwaukee to maintain similar lifestyle. Preferably more for dealing with the cost/hassle of moving. Also, it looks like each kid adds about $25-30k of annual expenses in San Jose, so if a family is likely in the future you'll need to plan for that as well.

Do it. You'll get used to how expensive it is but you will not get used to all the great things there is to do. 

cmcgregor laid things out very well.

I moved to Columbus from Sacramento. I really enjoyed northern California.

The biggest concern is cost of living. You can evaluate for yourself if that works for you or not.

When thinking about traffic and commuting, consider getting a motorcycle. Lane splitting is legal and common in CA. Drivers are used to it and won't try to murder you. This can make commuting much easier.

CA is also weird in the difference between purchasing and renting costs. Comparing Sacramento to Columbus when I left 8 years ago, a similar house would be 10-20% more expensive to rent in Sacramento, but 50-100% more expensive to buy. Bay area is more expensive than Sac though... although I gather that's changing rapidly as West Sac is slowly turning into a suburb of the Bay Area.

If everything works for you, you will enjoy living in CA.

My sister has been in Oakland for 30 years or so. She lived in San Fran for a while, but was able to buy a house in Oakland when the housing market crashed. She is self-employed and has found ways to survive in the Bay area for most of her life. She loves it and will never leave. She has no kids and doesn't work a 9-5. 

My Brother moved to Alameda for work, bought a house and had 2 kids. Arguably, he was in the ideal spot in the Bay Area. Alameda is a great community, relatively safe and an easy ferry ride to the city. He made good money, had a weekend place in Tahoe and liked the West Coast in general. He eventually hated it there so much that he sold everything and left.

I love visiting, the vibe in the Bay Area is so different...but I could never live there now. If I was young and had no kids and made good money, I might try it for a few years.

My advice is...Go!

You might stay there long term or short term but the most important thing it will teach you is how to make that jump. 

The next jump will be easier! 

I love Cali, sister lives in San Francisco and we grew up in San Diego.  If you can make the money end of it work, move there.

Given that you are a couple, find a place to live as close to one of you jobs as you can.  It will be a challenge for the other, but the    opportunity of having you both tied up in traffic limits both of you.  If a home has a yard large enough for a pole barn, it will have a second, smaller home built to take on more renters.  

The "elephant in the room", part of moving into California is the political aspect that you might not understand how it will effect your life.  Living in the state will impose it's bend on your life and life style.

I am a life long member in the land of "fruits, nuts and Karen's".  And would not think of living any where else.

Beer Baron said:

When thinking about traffic and commuting, consider getting a motorcycle. Lane splitting is legal and common in CA. Drivers are used to it and won't try to murder you. This can make commuting much easier.

When I was working with clients in Sunnyvale and San Jose, I had a pad in Los Gatos. Using my bike for the commute did make a pretty big impact on commuting times, especially with clients that started at 9am. Going from Los Gatos to San Francisco proper on the bike made an even bigger difference vs taking the car.

Commuter traffic is very "directional" - if you can somehow figure out the prevailing direction and plan your housing situation in the opposite direction, it can make a massive difference. For example, if you worked in Milpitas and lived in Sunnyvale, you can often get an almost clear run to and from work, whereas you'll be stuck in bad traffic if you're traveling in the other direction.

California is everything you expect it to be. California is nothing you expect it to be. California is HUGE and incredibly diverse in every meaning of the word. All the stereotypes are true somewhere. Your day to day experience will be with people who do not fit that stereotype.

Most of the negative stereotypes about Californians that you're familiar with are really about L.A.; NorCal is chiiiiill.

Learn to say "hella" and you'll blend right in.

Do you like good food? What kind of food do you like? There's an awesome street vendor for that over here, and an incredible white tablecloth restaurant for it over there.

The ocean is berkeleyING COLD.

What's your favorite hobby? One of the best places in the world for it is 2-4 hours drive away.

My advice is 100% financial, I don't know anything about San Jose other than I like Marleau, Burns, and Karlsson. 

Do the math. Figure out how much you're able to save to your 401k/IRA/HSA now, and how much it would be after the move. What does this do to your net worth? Those cost of living calculators are directionally good, but they don't really tell me what it does to my net worth. For a place that it doesn't sound like you necessarily want to put down roots, I'm looking first and foremost at what it does to my wealth building. 

The other part of that? You're not going to get that income in Wisconsin. So go take it now, work there for a few years, and when you move back to Wisconsin, you can negotiate from your California salary (I know, it doesn't quite work that way all the time) and it'll give you a somewhat permanent boost in your earning power. So that is a factor that isn't the easiest to quantify - how much does this impact your future wages if/when you move from California, and at the same point in time, where would you be if you didn't take the job?

The only thing I'll say as a counter point for everyone who says they wouldn't touch California with a 10 foot pole (and at this point in my life, I'm one of them but mostly because of distance from family): There are 8 million people who live in the Bay Area. That is up 2 million people since 1990. Must be something there people like. 

I've lived in the bay area (San Jose and Santa Clara) almost my entire adult life.  As a software engineer, professionally it is THE place to be. Tons of employers, all the big names in the field, lots of opportunities to get involved in "the next big thing".  If you've got the flexibility to give it a try, I recommend it.

As was mentioned we've got three excellent race tracks within 200 miles of San Jose (Laguna, Sears Point, Thunderhill), plus a few more in the 200-350 mile range if you head down towards LA.  Autocross opportunities are a bit more limited though, most of our big empty parking lots have been replaced with multi-story parking structures as a more efficient use of limited land, so you're looking at a 90 mile drive to Crow's Landing in the central valley.

My basic advice is GO, you only regret the times you do not go. 

But that said, I believe water shortages are about to get REAL in California. 

Do it.  For the experience, if nothing else.  I grew up in the east bay (Alameda actually, which I hear is a bit of a crowded yuppied up zoo now).  Never had any need for air conditioning.  San Jose tends to be a bit hotter (less ocean / bay affect)

One consideration about San Jose is that it is at the bottom edge of the Bay Area, which makes "escape" to the south is pretty easy.  South is towards Monterey and Santa Cruz. You can also relatively easily get to the central valley (not really that much there, Buttonwillow is that direction though).  There is a rather large hilly open area west of silicone valley also which is nice.  Behind that is Half Moon bay (home of the occasional VERY large surf) and Pacifica, which are fun coastal visits.

One unfortunate aspect of San Jose is that they never finished doing the whole BART (light rail) Bay Area loop, so the south bay has limited access.   There is a newer station poking into San Jose from the east bay side.  I hear BART can be a bit scary these days though.  Another point is that the new, fancy 49er stadium is there (if you like football).  I was there last January.... likely got COVID in the initial outbreak there... probably will not be back anytime soon.

Traffic can be horrific around the bay (and I am in Los Angeles!!), and some areas can be pretty scary depressing because of the current situation (e.g. probably best to stay away from parts of Oakland and San Francisco).

Cousin works for Google and lives in the SJ area.

He is also a car guy and rents a shop in an industrial area where he works on his SAABs and the team's Miata ChumpCar/Le Mons racer.

There are other car folk in the same complex that rent space for their hobbies.

I can connect you two if you take the leap.

Also some apartment complexes can have garages you can rent, so getting rid of everything may not be needed (unless you really want to start fresh), even if they don't allow working on cars in the parking lot, you won't have to reinvent the wheel.

Some friends of ours also moved to the area awhile back.  The husband is working at a startup basically creating a TurboTax for the self-employed, they just got fully funded so he's super busy and kinda drowning in money.  She trained in the UK to be a Vet (he went with and worked as an accountant to help support her schooling) and is now working as one in the area.  They don't have kids and really enjoy traveling and SFO is a great airport for getting out to Asia, etc.

I have no direct experience so take this with a grain of salt.

I have a cousin that was a microbiologist at a pharma company in San Francisco. She loved the surfing and hated pretty much everything else about the state. Her words, it's a great place to visit or even live for a year or two. Even as a well paid Ph.D., she thought the cost of living was insane and couldn't afford to buy a house anywhere near her office. 

She recently took a new job just so she could get out of the state and back to the eastern side of the world.

cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) said:

 

• Speaking of car things - the backroads are incredible. Roads from San Jose over to the coast are phenomenal driving, and as much as locals like to complain about oblivious people not moving over and letting you by, at least some of them do, which is more than I can say of anywhere else I've tried to do some spirited driving. Speed limits are high enough on a lot of these roads that you won't even be breaking the law.

Never lived in CA, not really tempted to - but this is one of those things that always surprises me when I'm visiting. The transition from city to fantastic back road is so fast in both the Bay Area and the LA area it's almost hard to believe. Last time I came back from Berkeley, we came across this completely ridiculous lane-and-a-half road through the mountains that had both myself and my travel companion just laughing in astonishment. The fact that we were in a V8 Miata and a turbo Miata in perfect weather didn't hurt, but still. 

I was given a similar sort of offer back in the late 90s tech boom for Seattle. Didn't take it, and I don't regret it for a number of reasons most of which revolve around the lifestyle. Got another offer a few years later to go work for a Miata performance shop in a small town and that one turned out okay. Not for the bank balance (took an immediate $50k haircut on salary and I could never afford to buy my old house back), but for the way of life. 

mtn said:

The only thing I'll say as a counter point for everyone who says they wouldn't touch California with a 10 foot pole (and at this point in my life, I'm one of them but mostly because of distance from family): There are 8 million people who live in the Bay Area. That is up 2 million people since 1990. Must be something there people like. 

Countercounterpoint:  There are 1.4 Billion people who live in China, up from 1.1 Billion in 1990.  Must be something there people like, even more so than the Bay Area. 

I'm not sure that an increasing population means it's a better place to live.