Can I have the hive minds opinion on this? It's a Razorback Fury by Marauder, made in the 1960's.
It appears to be solid and was last run about 20 years ago. I've been told that it's a 40hp two-stroke Evinrude on the back with electric controls.
I love the look of it and it looks (from my limited boat knowledge) like it would be quick in a straight line but maybe not so hot turning corners.
Any idea what something like this might be worth?
Classic boats are weird to price. Very similar to classic cars. Depends on condition, how well it runs, where it has been used (salt water vs fresh being the most dominant factor)
I haven't heard of that brand boat, but I'm rebuilding a version of that motor.
I've seen boats of similar quality go for $2k-6k. The trailer doesn't look like anything special, but if it is vintage and the owner knows it that might drive the price up a little. With a regular trailer I'd expect $2-3k in the group I hang out with
What are you hoping to pay for it?
There's some information on that model at the Fiberglassics website: http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/index.php?title=Razorback At the bottom of the page there are a few pictures of boats still in use, one of them could be the same one you're looking at - it also has an Evinrude with the engine cowl painted red, which wasn't the standard color for them.
The Marauder brass tag doesn't make sense, since that name doesn't appear in the brochures or price lists. I wonder if it was the name of a dealer instead of the manufacturer.
That's about the price range I was hoping for.
Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
I doubt it's seen much, if any salt water use.
Looking at the pictures, I think that is be the same boat, none of the others have the matching outboard cover or the air horns.
I agree, the tag doesn't make much sense but I have no idea what happened in the last 60 years.
ShawnG said:That's about the price range I was hoping for.
Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
I doubt it's seen much, if any salt water use.
One thing about older Evinrudes (and Johnsons and other OMC brands) is the water pump impellers can fail. They're made of rubber, and the vanes get hard and crack off when as they age. Some of them had problems with the ignition coils cracking as well but that may have been just on older motors (my dad had a 1956 Johnson where the coils failed, they may have fixed the problem by 1964 - I don't know.
ShawnG said:Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
Not really. That basic motor came out in the early 50s, they tweaked bits here and there over the years. By the time that particular motor came out they were largely bulletproof so long as you did basic maintenance. Only real problem is some parts are NLA so you have to go hunting for non-wear items.
Points ignition system. Again, not very changed over the years.
Look for the starter and generator and make sure the brackets look good as those are a pain to piece together.
stuart in mn said:ShawnG said:That's about the price range I was hoping for.
Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
I doubt it's seen much, if any salt water use.
One thing about older Evinrudes (and Johnsons and other OMC brands) is the water pump impellers can fail. They're made of rubber, and the vanes get hard and crack off when as they age. Some of them had problems with the ignition coils cracking as well but that may have been just on older motors (my dad had a 1956 Johnson where the coils failed, they may have fixed the problem by 1964 - I don't know.
Yeah, cracked coils are usually a joy to see as a collector, means the motor is probably mostly unmolested.
They fixed the problem, most of the best aftermarket coils are German now.
My advice is to run far away before you get infected with the sickness. May not be the advice you are looking for but in 10 or 20 years you will realize it was the advice you needed... 
I can''t help with value, but if ever there was a boat begging for fins!
The motor itself will run forever. I had a 61 Evinrude 10 hp that has been run all summer EVERY summer since it was built. It belonged to my great uncle, then my Uncle, then Dad, then me, now my nephew has it. I have wished every summer that it had an hour meter on it because I would love to see.
The electric shift will cause you headaches. It will likely fail every two years like clockwork leaving you with only neutral and reverse. IIRC, you can convert to cable shifting with a little work. No one else offered electric shift, and OMC only offered it for about 6 years before they scrapped the idea.
The hull itself would only bring money to an oddly passionate enthusiast. Don't overpay. Forgive the blunt honesty moment here: Hulls like that do a great job of floating, but they don't excel at anything. They won't be overly comfortable in chop, they won't keep you dry in the spray, and they won't be fast. They are perfect for a beginner because they have flash and style and "lake cred" but a more experienced boater wouldn't pay more than $500-1000 for it because they know they can buy something more modern that DOES excel for $3000.
Those old stylin' 50s and 60s boats are like a Triumph Spitfire.... all the style, but tall skinny tires, underpowered by today's standards, and not quiet and comfy. Most buyers wouldn't buy one as a daily driver choice when they could have a 2010 Corolla that is quieter, more reliable, and would beat the pants off a Spitfire on a track.... and cost about the same money.
Having said that, I would LOVE to own a Spitfire because I understand the passion for a design or a certain aesthetic.
A few years ago, I sold a 58 Sea King runabout with that 10hp evinrude for $100 on the family discount to my Nephew, but in all seriousness it probably would have brought $500 on the open market around here, and I think the trailer would have been half of the value.
That is a long way of saying... yes, I think that is a fine boat to get your feet wet. Just don't fall for "classic boat worth millions." Old boats don't hold their value like a classic car. If I were in the market for a boat like that, I wouldn't pay more than $1000 and only if both the boat and trailer had a good title, and only if I did a complete inspection on the core for rot. That comes with the caveat that all boat markets are different and I don't live in a marine-heavy area.
For the sake of comparison, my current boat is a 91 Ebbtide 18' I/O. It sits on a brilliant, top-of-the-line 2008 Load Rite aluminum trailer with LED lights and a torsion axle. I snagged it for $3500 about 5 years ago and it always starts, runs, and it's comfy as heck while doing 35 mph with 4 people in it. Boats like that around here are common. A big, heavy I/O might not be your cup of tea, I just mention that for comparison.
stuart in mn said:ShawnG said:That's about the price range I was hoping for.
Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
I doubt it's seen much, if any salt water use.
One thing about older Evinrudes (and Johnsons and other OMC brands) is the water pump impellers can fail. They're made of rubber,
This is true of any outboard or I/O, even new ones. They're a maintenance item.
ShawnG said:That's about the price range I was hoping for.
Anything finicky about the engines? I've never been a fan of two-stroke engines but I can work on them and make them run.
I doubt it's seen much, if any salt water use.
Looking at the pictures, I think that is be the same boat, none of the others have the matching outboard cover or the air horns.
I agree, the tag doesn't make much sense but I have no idea what happened in the last 60 years.
Nothing finicky about the engine. Add gas/oil, turn key, go. If it isn't running right, you check the air/gas/spark trilogy and fix whatever it needs.
Also....
This windshield. Unless it is in flawless condition, I'd pass. Even if it is in flawless condition, it takes one pebble on the road, one passenger leaning on it, or one person mis-stepping crawling over it and it's done. It started as 60s-tech polycarbonate and has been beaten by UV and in a garage with HC fumes for 60 years. Just know that if anything happens to it, you'll be without a windshield. That piece is completely unobtainium, impossible to recreate unless you have someone custom mold something for huge money, or you find some other windshield that you can adapt to your hood.
I find I'm pretty much agreeing with everything Curtis says. Go figure.
It's a nifty little boat, and I believe it would be great fun on a lake somewhere. Those motors are indestructible, but parts availability could be sketchy. Probably one of those cases where the owner thinks it's worth more than it is. Buy it if the price is right. Grassroots Boatersports!
A water pump is mandatory in an engine that has sat any length of time. The rubber impellers do not age well. Not a hard job to replace. Never start or run an engine for any length of time without earmuffs attached to a garden hose turned on full blast.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
One final point. Prices on boats start falling after the4th of July. By August they can be 20% lower and by Labor Day as much as 50% off. Especially older obscure brands.
Uniquely wood boats start going up after Halloween especially premium brands like Chris Craft as people start looking for winter projects to sell in the spring..
1988RedT2 said:I find I'm pretty much agreeing with everything Curtis says. Go figure.
It's a nifty little boat, and I believe it would be great fun on a lake somewhere. Those motors are indestructible, but parts availability could be sketchy. Probably one of those cases where the owner thinks it's worth more than it is. Buy it if the price is right. Grassroots Boatersports!
A water pump is mandatory in an engine that has sat any length of time. The rubber impellers do not age well. Not a hard job to replace. Never start or run an engine for any length of time without earmuffs attached to a garden hose turned on full blast.
Can't run these with earmuffs, you have to get a garbage can or something similar and fill it till the lower unit is completely submerged
Thanks for all the advice guys, it's really helpful.
I pretty much figured on going through the outboard before it hits water, I've replaced impellers on a customer's Malibu a couple times so I had figured there might be something in an outboard as well.
It belongs to a friend at the moment, going to put some thought into all this.
If it were me, I wouldn't buy that boat unless I was shopping for a Razorback Fury because it was a passion. If you're just looking to get on the water for cheap, you can do it with that boat... or you can do it with $500 and have something that floats and runs just as well.
Will you be staying in the Fraser, or plan on heading out in the Strait?
If you're staying in the river, what plans do you have? Fishing? Cruising?
Lakes, no salt water.
If it were the Fraser river, I'd be shopping a jet drive.
Everything Curtis said is truth. Do not overpay. If the owner thinks it is worth a fortune let him keep it. It looks solid, and the motor will run. It will be lucky to do 30 MPH, but you would do it with style.
If the hull is as solid as it looks I'd offer between 1K-2K.
Do not expect to get more than that down the road no matter how much work you do to it.
A quick google peek at the lakes around you.... looks like they're pretty deep and plenty to explore. Some of them look 50km in length or more.
If you're just looking to get on the lake and do some fishing, anything that doesn't leak with a 30hp outboard would be great. I'm not sure about prevailing winds, but hull design might be of larger importance if you get some chop. A 15 mph wind over 30 miles can pretty easily make a good 3' chop at the bottom of the lake, but a 30 mph wind across the 1 mile width isn't a big deal.
If you're looking at exploring the whole lake, I'd go big or go home. I strongly suggest a 36' Baja cuddy with twin blown 502s on a triple axle trailer... but that's mostly because I'm totally jealous of your proximity to some amazingly beautiful lakes. I also say that in case you have an SWMBO who would counter your desires. You can say, "but GRM said I have to do it."
I personally think you're on the right track with your thinking. Modest boat, modest outboard, quality but not expensive.
Generalizations:
- Newer hulls typically do better than older. Ever notice how those old Chris Craft-ish wooden boats never really plane, they just kind of drag through the water? That is partly due to their wood hulls. Wood doesn't like to bend on two planes, so the hulls are more or less a flat-vee - a pointy nose with a vertical breasthook that leads into a barrel bottom. Later hulls take advantage of better R&D and they make use of complex/compound curvatures that can make them excel at more qualities. When I say "newer" I mean the design, not the model year. Starcraft for instance made the same hull for almost 40 years and sold it to 5 or 6 different companies. Just because it is a 1995 model year may mean that it's a 1965 design.
- Fiberglass tends to be more rigid and prettier. Aluminum tends to be more forgiving. If you whack something with aluminum, you just throw some flex seal tape over it and keep going. If you whack something with fiberglass, you've pretty much consigned yourself to expensive repairs. Fiberglass, however can be molded easily into any shape a designer wants. For this reason, fiberglass is often the material of choice. Hydroforming and better stamping have improved aluminum designs a lot, but they'll likely always be a bit behind 'glass. If you find a boat you like, don't stress over what it's made of. Think of it like shopping for a 2003 Jag XJ vs a 2004 XJ. The 03 you need to look for rust. The 04 is aluminum so you don't have to. With a fiberglass boat, you need to investigate to make sure there isn't any rotten wood that could compromise the hull. With aluminum, what you see is what you get.
- Vee hulls tend to ride smoother in chop but can be slower. Flat hulls like a Jon Boat or a tri-hull tend to draft less water and require less power per kph, but they ride terribly. Pontoons really cut through chop to the extent you may not even feel it, but since they don't really plane they take a significant amount of power to make a decent speed. Modern vee hulls will likely give you the best experience. The compound curvature of modern vee hulls allows them to be a steep vee up front for splitting waves then taper quickly to a shallow vee at the back for faster top speed on plane.
I applaud your choice of buying an outboard. They might seem daunting at first, but they are pretty simple critters. The older 2-strokes are very analog and simple. Many of the new 4-strokes are still very reliable, but complex. There was a very short period of years where they made carbureted 4-strokes before they went EFI. Either flavor, If you pick a good one, I think you'll find that every spring you'll drag it out of storage, dust it off, and start it up, and repeat for 10 years. Then you'll need a coil for $20 and a carb rebuild kit for $25 and you'll get another 10 years. I advise not choosing a 4-stroke simply because you're more comfy with 4-strokes. I think that an analog 2-stroke is an easier critter than an EFI 4-stroke. Having said that, if you happen to find an I/O that you like, I wouldn't avoid it. The engine will be one of about 4 automotive engines that are dirt simple. The complexity is in the outdrive and its components. Still very DIY, but it's a learning curve. The big downside to I/O is the weight. Until you put a small block and an outdrive, they are just bloody heavy. Most of the I/O bowriders you'll find today are well over 2000 lbs and they are big, comfy luxo cruisers that need a V8 just to make 40 mph.
As you get closer to your decision, feel free to PM me. I have spent a very large proportion of my life on the water and (while I'm certainly not the world's biggest expert) I can offer what little I can.
Don't let others overcomplicate this. It's a cool boat. If you like it and the price is right, go for it.
I think this has all helped me talk myself out of the boat. You guy suggested things I hadn't thought about. Thanks.
Curtis, yes there are some great lakes here, some of them very cold and when the wind comes up they can get pretty ugly. I love it here, I live where people go on vacation. Unfortunately B.C. stands for Bring Cash. everything is expensive here but it's worth it.
I think I'm going to hold off on a boat purchase for a while. This one happened to be very convenient and I love the look of it but I'm not really interested in being the "vintage boat guy".
I should not have clicked on this thread. It's making buying a cheap old boat almost look like a sane idea.
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