OK, lets everbody back up and take a breath.

If I were the parents, I would argue my children were not making toys guns, but instead were celebrating diversity and showing the "L" as a sign of solidarity to their future lesbian classmates, and that the staff and teachers were puritanical oppressors who hate freedom and expression. Any argument to the contrary is simply trying to repress my children and is hate speech against the LGBGT community. If you don’t re-instate my children and clean their record I will call Rosie O’Donnell.

"Follow that, killer!" - Jerry Lee Lewis.

ransom wrote: ...and I also wonder whether we're getting some of that awesome journalism wherein the behavior that actually caused the suspension is glossed over, and the fact that they were making pretend guns with their fingers while they were, say, shoving other kids off the cafeteria loading dock is the item that's brought to the fore.

This.

No one has apparently noticed what is conspicuously absent in this "reporting": There is no statement from any school official. There is no "school officials declined to answer" or even "School officials could not be reached". No other side to the story or even attempt to gather one.

So who is the source...? "...WJZ-TV, Baltimore, reported Tuesday." So, this is a report about another report. Not even the original report itself.

So, who's version of the story are we getting? Well, one of the parents weighs in a bit, but I bet he heard the story his kid told.

This is a 6y.o. kid. Not the most reliable source for accurate accounts of personal behavior. Anyone worked with them or had them? Yeah, I had plenty of times doing recess duty where kids start playing one game that's kind of on the mock violent side and it slowly escalates.

"Hey kids! Stop wrestling!"
"We weren't wrestling. We were playing Naruto and making ninja noises at each other."
"You started with that... and ended up with your body on top of his. That's wrestling. Now go sit time out."
In a huff, "Sniff I wasn't wrestling. I was just playing Naruto."

Yeah, I had parents get pissed at me plenty of times because of some horribly insensitive thing I did or punishment out of proportion to what their kid did, based solely on the story their kid told.

"Talbot County school officials declined to explain the punishment or comment for this story, citing confidentiality requirements."

This is part of the states zero tolerance policies, which may be overturned next month.

foxtrapper wrote: "Talbot County school officials declined to explain the punishment or comment for this story, citing confidentiality requirements."

The ol' confidentiality requirements curtain. Almost as handy as "we cannot discuss details as we are conducting an internal investigation", both read as "Holy berkeley, with the E36 M3storm already! Give us a couple days to come up with a defensible position".

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

N Sperlo wrote: Ah a continuation of the rise of fascism in America.

FTFY

Sure, but my main worry is kids turning into Bob Costas.

N Sperlo wrote: Sure, but my main worry is kids turning into Bob Costas.

Oppression makes men hard. Not hard like redheads do either... but like Russian mob hard. So, if it leads where it always seems to historically... I can rest easy in my mountain chalet in Ecuador knowing America's children are learning the hard way what their parents forgot.

aircooled wrote:

mad_machine wrote: ...Most people I know have at least one gun (usually two.. a pistol and a rifle) and those few that were not allowed toy guns.. have collections that would make a militia proud....

Hey, wait a second there!!! Girls that are taught the "proper" ways to act in Catholic schools always end up perfectly... ...oh wait.... never mind.

... in bed

aussiesmg wrote:

N Sperlo wrote: Ah a continuation of the pussification of America.

I think it is officially complete now

Oh, it continues. It, Sir, continues. And if you disagree, to continue with the spirit of the thread, I shall call you a nazi!

In reply to N Sperlo:

Nah, he's prolly with the AB.....after all, he is from a prison colony

foxtrapper wrote: "Talbot County school officials declined to explain the punishment or comment for this story, citing confidentiality requirements." This is part of the states zero tolerance policies, which may be overturned next month.

we can hope.. all zero tolerance does is make people look stupid and fill prisons with "criminals" that only did stupid E36 M3

yamaha wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: Nah, he's prolly with the AB.....after all, he is from a prison colony

Oh snap!

In reply to N Sperlo:

this might be the longest "Oh snap" in history too

Maybe Beer Barron should read the WHOLE Wiki article next time...

"Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis."

"Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. 'Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust,' Godwin has written."

N Sperlo wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: Nah, he's prolly with the AB.....after all, he is from a prison colony

Oh snap!

Oh crap, they're onto me

racerfink wrote: "Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis."

Fine then. This is an inappropriate, inordinate, and/or hyperbolic comparison of this situation to Hitler and the rise of the Nazis.

It is patently absurd that of all the possible explanations for what is going on in this article... There isn't a reasonable explanation we just aren't hearing... This isn't just an incident of gross stupidity... This isn't an overreaction from school staff hyper-sensitive in the wake of gun violence... This is not even a case of the Nanny State run amok. Of all possible explanations the implication is that they are trying to take away our rights to institute Fascism!

Really?

The article doesn't even have anything to do with someone trying to curb people's rights to protect children. It is, at worst, talking about not wanting children to play games that most little boys like to play.

And before you start shouting about "Fascism" you should look up what it means (from Wikipedia):

Fascism (pron.: /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.[1][2] Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community through discipline, indoctrination, and physical training.[3][4] Fascism utilizes a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[5] Fascism views direct action including political violence and war, as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality.

I could buy "pussification of America" or "Nanny State", but Fascism is absurd.

And yes, quoting Hitler is implying a comparison. And by comparing to Hitler, you are implying Fascism. Not to mention how often that term has been thrown around.

Not to mention that, having been a teacher, I don't see the "zero-tolerance" policies as being about protecting the children so much as being about a CYA for the school staff to avoid irate, possibly litigious parents.

Plus, I was throwing out Godwin's law to be a bit silly.

Mental wrote: If I were the parents, I would argue my children were not making toys guns, but instead were celebrating diversity and showing the "L" as a sign of solidarity to their future lesbian classmates, and that the staff and teachers were puritanical oppressors who hate freedom and expression. Any argument to the contrary is simply trying to repress my children and is hate speech against the LGBGT community. If you don’t re-instate my children and clean their record I will call Rosie O’Donnell. "Follow that, killer!" - Jerry Lee Lewis.

You = Genius LOL

Beer Baron wrote: I could buy "pussification of America" or "Nanny State", but Fascism is absurd.

I said "the rise of Fascism". It starts as a movement from within. Enacting zero tolerance policies against things that are perfectly acceptable and legal to do, making certain words and/or phrases "offensive" that sort of thing.

You can turn your own country into a fascist state by just acting like one all the time until your leaders oblige you by making it law. Mussolini didn't invade Italy and force it on them. They led themselves there. So did Germany. The guy who takes the podium is at the end of a long succession of people who encouraged it with social controls.

It might be absurd now - but pussified children who are used to a nanny state are the sort of folks who find themselves asking "Where did all those nice jewish folks go?" one day.

In reply to Beer Baron: GPS speaks the truth above. Considering the American public's willingness to tolerate all the losses of our freedoms of the last 2 decades, we are well on the way to bringing it upon ourselves. Hell, the eagerness and haste with which we are lining up to actively throw away our freedoms is only accelerating.

And yes, I sincerely believe that.

Can lead to does not mean will lead to. Now you are talking a slippery slope which is a logical falacy. Seems to be moving away from concern towards paranoia.

is it to early to say .... IN BEFORE THE LOCK ?

Duke wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: GPS speaks the truth above. Considering the American public's willingness to tolerate all the losses of our freedoms of for at least the last century, we are well on the way to bringing it upon ourselves. Hell, the eagerness and haste with which we are lining up to actively *throw away* our freedoms is only accelerating. And yes, I sincerely believe that.

FTFY......otherwise I agree. Censorship was one of the first, since then its been a nearly verical cliff.

If I want to say berkeley you on national telivision, even though I agree its in poor taste, it shouldn't be censored for "the greater good"

That said, duke....better watch out, I hear these accomidations are half star

Beer Barron, do you think that I'm trying to make that a political statement about Obama? It was meant as a general statement against things like the Patriot Act, and against the attempt at gun laws now. It's a statement about how we'll end up with laws for everything and lose our freedoms if we continue down this path. Don't ever assume you know why someone posted anything.

Ass U me - noun. Thinking you know exactly what a person said, wrote, or implied thus making both parties look bad in public light.

racerfink wrote: Beer Barron, do you think that I'm trying to make that a political statement about Obama? It was meant as a general statement against things like the Patriot Act, and against the attempt at gun laws now. It's a statement about how we'll end up with laws for everything and lose our freedoms if we continue down this path. Don't ever assume you know why someone posted anything.

No I do not. Nor was my posting a fake Magic card meant as a serious rebuttal. More of a Good Grief over the general tone of this board towards "someone overreacted? Fascism!"

I see the increase of limitations in this country as the natural result of society becoming more dense and more complex. Peoples needs and desires will naturally conflict more often.

Sometimes things will be really stupid (like this) but generallt correct themselves as evidenced by the legal challenge to zero tolerance policies mentioned earlier.

In summary, I think a lot of people on this board need to chill out a bit.

Conversely, we feel that a lot of people IN REAL LIFE need to chill out a bit.