OK, so who is king?

America now has (for the moment) three serious challengers to the throne of pony car kingship. Ford has their Mustang, Chevrolet has the Camaro, and Dodge has the Challenger. We can talk about top-level trim cars (GT-500KR, Camaro SS2, and Challenger SRT-8) or anywhere in between. What level of what car is the absolute best, and why?

I, for one, not only excuse the cars' heaft and size, but I think it's what makes them great. The Challenger is obviously the biggest of the bunch, but that big, fat pig will reach 170 MPH--it defy's convention. The Mustang is quite obviously the smallest, but don't call it dainty! It also has the least power of the bunch until you ask for the GT-500 (then it has the most, right?).

Forget about your cries for a 2,000 pound muscle car. That's not what these cars are about--they don't even make an attempt, nor should they. If you want a light sports car, go find something else. They need to fill the void of a car that intimidates you just by its glare.

Also, price might as well be ignored. They all share a similar price point for similar packages, right?

Discuss.

Um, I'll take the Mustang, by the way. Anything but the V6 (which is a stout little car--but I need all the power I can get). I think it has the best interior by far (what's with the Camaro's fudged-up steering wheel?). I think it also has a clean look outside. But honestly, the best-of-show exterior design is a tossup between the three.

I just love how huge the Challenger is and I don't know why! I drive a Miata for God's sake and I praise it for it's tinyness! But again, Mustang--I'll take the Shelby GT for 500 please.

But the Camaro is just gorgeous. It also transforms into a robot when necessary. The steering wheel is my main complaint about the car (the rim of it isn't tubular--it's ovalesque). I love the interior though--especially with the gauge package. If it wasn't for the stupid wheel, I'd like it a lot more.

Oh, boy. I think I'm a Ford Guy. Sure, the Mustang GT will almost get beaten by the base-level V6 Camaro, but there is plenty you could do to a GT for very little money to change that. The aftermarket support base is already raging with parts to throw at it--I don't know about the other two cars. I think I'm going to test drive the trio one of these days. That is, if they all make the cut (I know Ford will not make the same mistake they made in the 80s when they tried to kill the Mustang).

A 2000 pound car is not a muscle car, but a sport compact ( if it has over 150 HP.) Some of us like them like that, Which is not to say having a 350 HP heavier car is a bad thing, it's just different. There's nothing like being pinned to the seat for 3 gears in a straight line!

NYG95GA wrote: A 2000 pound car is not a muscle car, but a sport compact ( if it has over 150 HP.) Some of us like them like that, Which is not to say having a 350 HP heavier car is a bad thing, it's just different. There's nothing like being pinned to the seat for 3 gears in a straight line!

Sorry, that was supposed to be a light-hearted nudge. I didn't mean to prod at those of us who like small cars (I love my Miata and I don't want anything to take its place!). I just wanted everyone to be able to switch gears for a moment into a "what IF I bought a big car?" train of thought.

Well first of all, you're ignoring a LOT of factors, but I'll take it one chunk at a time.

Mustang has V6, GT, "Bullitt", Shelby GT, and the GT500. The non-factory special editions like the KR, Red Stripe, Terilingua, etc just don't count. If wasn't built by Ford and backed with a Ford warranty, it's not real. Anyways, the restyle is garbage IMO. The GT's front fascia grew black plastic all over it as did the side sills and rear bumper. It's fugly. The V6 has a cleaner look. None of them have nice interiors and the power is appallingly bad (300HP from a V8?). Only a 5-Speed in the manual, antenna bump on the decklid, and bizarre headrests are my other complaints. On the plus side, it's the lightest of the group, the brakes are good, and the solid rear axle can take a beating. Pricing is good for the GT, but the "Specials" are overpriced. Nose-heavt GT500 has spoiled handling.

I hate the Challenger. I mean loathe it. I make fun of every one I see. They are like aircraft carriers in a see of dinghies. They have the ride height of a 4x4, horrible automatics, and chintzy interiors. They're expensive and look like a 70 Chally spent 40 years eating ho-ho's.

The Camaro is OK I guess. The style is good but I agree with you that the interior is bizarre. The gauges and steering wheel especially are turn-offs. 300HP V6 and 426HP V8 with 6-speed manual is awesome. Hate the giant wheelwells and wheels though.

If a gun was put to my head I'd buy the Camaro, in 1SS form (full bananas performance with cloth seats). Given my actual money, I don't like any of them. Even assuming I had to have 4 seats (and thus had to ignore the bargain used C6 Corvettes) I would get a GTO. With 400HP and less weight it's faster than the Camaro SS, Mustang Bullitt/GT/Shelby GT, and Chally SRT8. Not to mention the most room, a modern look, and a nicer interior than all of them.

Barring "muscle" cars (and I'm a huge fan) I'd probably swing to a sport coupe. The Genesis Coupe with the V6 can hold it's own with the Mustang GT and Chally R/T and the Turbo-4 version is already hitting 300RWHP with tuning and a cat-back. I'd be happier with either of those then any of the "new" muscle cars.

I'd still rather pocket $20K and drive home in a $12K 06 GTO with better performance.

the impracticality of the mustang will be a lot easier to ignore when they drop the 355hp/3.5l TT V6 in it...

and if they're going for transient response on the ecoboost motors, im interested to see what happens when they want to make big numbers with it.

EDIT: and BTW its 315hp in the mustang...

I really like the Mustang without any of the exterior options (lights, spoiler [eecchhghh], trim, ect). I don't know that I've ever seen a GT without any of the crap. That would be sweet.

I am a Ford guy through and through, I would love a V6 mustang...240 hp is way more than any car I have ever driven on a regular basis, and there is plenty more to be had out of it. Of all of them, I want a terlingua most, but P71 says it isn't real.

given the choice though, I would rather have a Camaro V6...300 out of the box...awesome. gimme some steelies, a non-metalic paint color, dark tint, and a turbo....drool.

What about the G8 GTP or whatever the 400+hp version is, or the CTS-V?

Of the 3 listed I'd go with the Mustang(having never sat in any of them). Mostly because it strikes me as a bit less of a lame retro concept & a little bit more of an evolution.

Easy- Mustang. It sells more.

(other than that, there's no king- it all depends on who you hang around)

E-

If you want the best handling new pony car get the Shelby GT. If you want the one with the most blunt force trauma get the GT500KR (and the KR is a factory option, I believe, but the Super Snake is not).

Why buy a new muscle car when used Vette's are dropping in price so fast? I wouldn't consider a new Mustang before an 04 and up Vette.

P71 also has a good point about the 06 and up GTO's. 400 hp w/ a 6 spd.

135i with M package

actually, a pre-2010 mustang gt, base model, no options, spoiler and sticker delete.

maroon92,

It's not real for the purpose of a discussion on which factory car is best. Because it's not a factory car. Also I think you'd have to have a lobotomy to buy one because they are the same price as a used Z06 Corvette!!!

neon4891 wrote: actually, a pre-2010 mustang gt, base model, no options, spoiler and sticker delete.

+1.

I built both an '09 and '10 to that spec and the '10 didn't look too bad. It also has a 3.73 rear axle pack option that includes brake upgrades

Of the 3 choices I'd go for the Camaro. 300hp v6 is awesome. Though I'd go for the genesis coupe 2.0t before any of that. Isn't that motor pretty much a 4g63?

I'd get a black Camaro and put a Trans Am decal on the hood. I use to have a Trans Am.

In all seriousness, when I heard the announcement of the Camaro being brought back, I was sure there would be a Firebird/Trans Am coming out right behind it, albeit a couple years afterwards so it wouldnt kill Camaro sales.

P71 wrote: maroon92, It's not real for the purpose of a discussion on which factory car is best. Because it's not a factory car. Also I think you'd have to have a lobotomy to buy one because they are the same price as a used Z06 Corvette!!!

I only have 2 arguments against Corvettes:

1) You have to have specialized tools to jack the thing up or you break the delicate ground effect coating (read that as if I had said "hard candy shell"). It's crossed that threshold of "It's a chevy, grab a sledge and beat on it 'til it runs" over to "It's a corvette, you have to take it to the dealer to get the parking brake adjusted because it's done with a computer".

2) The average person could not have it as their only car. Pony cars have back seats, a trunk, and a ride height that allows you to not think about the slope of every driveway you enter.

To answer the OPs question, I say the Mustang. It has the most flexibility as a platform. You can successfully drag race it, autocross it, road race it, daily drive it, or give it to your 16 year old and not feel embarrassed when doing so. It's also the least expensive of the three, and one segment where Ford isn't going "Me too!!! Me too!!!"

I want one of these in this color.

There is no King.

The Trans-Am is not slated for production

Shawn

Normally, I'm a Ford guy when it comes to such things. My parents have had at least one vehicle from GM, Chrysler, and Ford, so there's no real rhyme or reason to it.

However, in this particular instance, I'm into the Camaro. Typically, I don't like GM, this being one of a handful of exceptions. I think it mostly comes down to styling. I would classify all 3 as "retro". That said, I think the Challenger is far too literal, and the Mustang is pretty close as well. It's not 1971 anymore, and for that reason I like the fact that the Camaro pays homage to the original without looking too much like an awkward copy job (I'm looking at you, Dodge). And in the case of the Mustang, the live axle is a bit too retro for me. It works fine on a track, but on real roads with real bumps, I prefer my wheels to move independently.

Also, with 300hp on the base model, the Camaro offers a power output that would have been respectable in a mid range V8 in 1971. Nobody would say you had cheaped out back then if you had 300hp under the hood. And today it's still good enough to knock the wind out of most other cars on the road.

Overall though, this is the kind of car from GM that makes me crazy. The things that make it so right would work in every other vehicle they sell.

1) Make it better than it has to be. "Good enough" really isn't enough these days. What used to be "excellent" is now standard. 2) Make it desirable. The way to make money is to make products people absolutely have to have. For further reading, look at Coca-Cola. Also, crack dealers. 3 Market the damn thing properly. Making a cool car turn into a giant (and cool) robot is brilliant.

If GM applied these concepts to everything they made from the very start of a project, they would not be in the situation they are in today. Heck, those three rules could boost sales of just about anything. Quality, compelling appeal, and good marketing are a pretty unbeatable combination.

wherethefmi wrote: Of the 3 choices I'd go for the Camaro. 300hp v6 is awesome. Though I'd go for the genesis coupe 2.0t before any of that. Isn't that motor pretty much a 4g63?

I thought it was a 4B11T (same motor as Evo X, Caliber SRT-4, and uh, something else), but that might be the KDM version.

ReverendDexter wrote:

wherethefmi wrote: Of the 3 choices I'd go for the Camaro. 300hp v6 is awesome. Though I'd go for the genesis coupe 2.0t before any of that. Isn't that motor pretty much a 4g63?

I thought it was a 4B11T (same motor as Evo X, Caliber SRT-4, and uh, something else), but that might be the KDM version.

lancer ralliart

also 3650lbs is a lot of car for a 300hp v6 to move around

Caddy CTS-V or the G8 GTP.

The Camaro is bearable, but the other two are ugly. I wouldn't buy any of the three.

Problem with the camaro..

you cant get a V8 with anything less then 19" wheels go and try and find and price R-comps for that if you would even think about stock class auto-x.

shelbyGT and the new bullet are kings in cone dodging.