I saw Elysium and the story line is clearly about our South America immigration policy. Now for the part that may sound like I’m a High School dropout. As I am. This country was built on cheap to free labor. From what I understand the South America Work Force is offering cheap labor. Mostly work that “Americans” are too good for. If our Immigration policy is about preserving U.S. jobs and resources. What are we doing nothing, to stop Canadians from taking U.S. jobs?
Because we're humans, not Americans, or Canadians, or Mexicans.
I always chuckle how we scream "capitalism or die," then when our capitalism sends jobs overseas to save money, we just get in fights with those countries or make non-capitalist laws to change the policy.
Its like when a parent says to a child, "I trust you to make your own decision," then the child decides to get a pot leaf tattooed on his forehead and the parent says, "I forbid that." Capitalism sets up rules and then says, "I trust you to operate within these parameters," but when an entity uses those parameters to exercise capitalism, the capitalist lawmakers say, "you can't do that."
Canada has some excellent secondary education that is affordable, but public service jobs up there pay crap. Doctors, for instance, can get relatively inexpensive (and excellent) educations up north, but then most of them get jobs here since healthcare pays better. IMHO, don't start banning canadian doctors, change the parameters. Make it more affordable to get an education here. Canada can start making medical employment a little more attractive to keep doctors there.
Put it this way... The solution is not to ban those Canadian doctors, the solution is to fix the reason why they come here.
Its no different from Mexicans in Southern California. The solution isn't to put up a big wall to keep them out, maybe the solution is stiffer penalties for rich Beverly Hills types for paying undocumented workers.
South American immigration policy, or "south of USA" immigration policy?
Canada has a population of 30-40 million. Mexico's population is about 3-4 times that. Also, nobody really wants to leave Canada for the US, for the most part it would be trading six of one for a half dozen of another. Both first world with high quality of life. There simply isn't the same issue with Canadians coming in and "stealing" our jobs.
And, we are. A Canadian has to get work permits to get a job here same as a Mexican does. Just probably easier for them.
POLITICAL POST!!!!
To answer your question is because no one is paying attention because Canadians look like Americans. Difficult to sell, not a problem.
They could stop the immigration problem tomorrow. I mean in 1 day. Simply pass a law that states any person employing for any task a person that is not in this country legaly will forfeit immediately all assets personal and or business in nature. CEOs are responsible parties for their buisness and are criminally and civially liable. A pass through employees(i.e. temp agencies, etc) both companies will be held responsible. These assests will auctioned immediately and held in in escrow until the completion the results of the trial is found. If found innocent of charges, the funds from the auction will be returned. If guilty all funds will be remitted to XYZ fund for whatever the politicians want to blow it on and will be imprisoned for a minimum of 5 years.
Poof!!! gone!
But they don't wanna do that. They need the shinny object so you don't see them selling us off to the special interests.
Gay Marriage Abortion Immigration
all wonderful rouses to keep you distracted from what they are doing. Selling the people and the resources of this country to the highest bidding sponsor.
The laws already exist and have for years.
One famous case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%AB_Baird
I-9 employment eligibility form:
Illegals are here because it benefits both sides, the illegals make money 'under the table' without taxation and the employer doesn't have to supply insurance etc. It's lucrative enough for both sides that it keeps going despite the risks.
It also seems that a large number of the illegals hired here are hired by their legal brethren/sisteren; some people cross over, start a legit business then hire illegals to work for them. There was a Tex Mex restaraunt chain in Charleston which got busted, it was the single biggest ICE bust in SC and the chain belonged to three Mexican guys who had legal papers.
I can't find documentation but I do recall reading somewhere that the same thing has happened with field workers; there's a couple of legals who 'front' the whole thing then they hire illegals to do the actual work.
AS far as Canadians, as already mentioned they are considered no different from any other non-US citizen when it comes to working here. They have to supply the same documentation as a Mexican farm worker.
US immigration policy is to give some preference to those with degrees or skills. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa That's true of pretty much any country though.
GVX19 wrote: I saw Elysium and the story line is clearly about our South America immigration policy. Now for the part that may sound like I’m a High School dropout. As I am. This country was built on cheap to free labor. From what I understand the South America Work Force is offering cheap labor. Mostly work that “Americans” are too good for. If our Immigration policy is about preserving U.S. jobs and resources. Why are we doing nothing, to stop Canadians from taking U.S. jobs?
Hey man. It's Mike,
You remember Wayne, right? He could right you a berkeleying novel on how difficult it is, and how much $$$ it requires to LEGALLY be employed as a Canadian living in the U.S. He plays by the rules, and gets routinely ass-raped. MEANWHILE, he lives in a county where half of the signs are in Spanish, and was property manager for a trailer park where ICE was giving him monthly updates for what to look out for as it related to Mexican gang activity (MS13, Latin Kings, etc.) Shortly before he left, they were telling him to look out for white panel vans that wee obviously not "work" vans, as the gangs were smuggling CHILDREN for child prostitution, and unlike Wayne, or me, a bare minimum of 90% of the people living in the park ILLEGALLY get a check from the taxpayers every month.
We have immigration policies for a very, very simple reason: There's a FINITE amount of land, jobs, and resources here.
This dude lays it out way more clearly than any I've ever heard. Should be required watching in school - I'll post the second part, as it answers your question, but I strongly suggest watching the first bit too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t976q6CeN8Q
Also, with black teen unemployment at 41%, do you really want your kid having to fight for an entry-level position at minimum wage with Paco who has 20 years of construction experience? Would you have wanted that when you dropped out of High School? Is that fair to you as a U.S. Citizen? I don't think so.
YMMV.
Curmudgeon wrote: Illegals are here because it benefits both sides, the illegals make money 'under the table' without taxation and the employer doesn't have to supply insurance etc. It's lucrative enough for both sides that it keeps going despite the risks.
^^^ THIS.
I too thought it was a political piece but I thought it was about the systematic dismantling of the middle class and Obamacare.
@ Curmudgeon: Right. And how many Mexicans do you know who LEGALLY work in the U.S.? More Waynisms - this is first hand. Not "In theory:"
Paco would show up in his dually diesel quad cab $40,000 pickup at the park wanting to rent a trailer. Wayne would have to ask for proof of income. "Oh man, I make $x a week" (Pulls out huge wad of cash.) Wayne would say "That's great. Prove it." Paco: "Man, I gotta brand new truck and gold chains...." yada yada. Wayne would tell them if they wanted to live there, he needed to see their prior year tax return.
Paco would run down the street to H & R Block, tell them he made $9,000 a year and had a wife & six kids. They'd throw him his $500 "earned income tax credit" and send him down the road.
Paco returns to the park with his $9k in reported income, and Wayne would say "That's nice. You don't make enough to live here." ....which is when the threats would start.
Another good one: The Mexicans in most parts of Georgia get a free pass to do whatever the berkeley they want. Driving without a license? Prepare to get ass-raped if you're white. Mexican? No problem. Just give me your fake name, and I'll give you a notice to appear...knowing there's no way in hell you'll ever show up.
DUI? Same deal. They'll throw your ass in jail 'till you sober up, and send you on your way. My wife's White American friend was dating a Mexican dude for a while. She met him at a resort down there. He hired a coyote and moved in with her. Okay dude to hang out with. Smart, funny, spoke decent English. Made enough cash under the table to help her out with rent. I warned her though, he probably had a family in Mexico...and he'd be trying to lay down some anchor babies ASAFP. Both were true. She dumped him after she answered his phone while he was passed out drunk, and it was his wife in Mexico on the other line.
Anyway, Nacho (Egnacio-her boyfriend) came over to hang out while me and Wayne were wrenching on the Challenge car one night. His drunk ass buddy Marco drove him there. Dude was a real piece of E36 M3. Continued to get MORE drunk, and brag about how many DUI's he'd had in California and Georgia, but didn't have a record. Asked us if we liked "young girls" and said he had "the hookup" in Norcross where Wayne lives. I was trying to get dude to sober up enough to get the berkeley out. After he went upstairs to use the bathroom, and then fell down the stairs, leaving a big gash in my wall, I told them it was time to leave. Dude took 20 minutes and as many attempts to back out of my driveway.
Sorry. Stream of consciousness Mexican stories. Point being: This ridiculous "They're just here to work" stereotype is what's gotten us into the spot we're in.
PS: Where I was going with the driving without a license thing: God forbid you're a 30-something white Canadian woman with your two white kids in the car, leave your purse at home like a bonehead, make a not-so-legal U-turn to go back to the house and get it, get pulled over, and inform the cop you're not a U.S. citizen (this is Mrs. Wayne, btw,) they threatened to haul her to jail and turn her kids over to DFCS. Fortunately, Wayne showed up about that time with her license.
Mexican driving without license: Eeees no problem. Canadian driving without license: Terrorist.
Know what you mean. Ask Toyman about his son getting rearended by a drunk illegal.
I may be mistaken but, from what I've read, the pipeline goes the other way; U.S. to Canada.
It seems like it's safer to be poor there but harder to be rich.
Curmudgeon wrote: Know what you mean. Ask Toyman about his son getting rearended by a drunk illegal.
Another wife's friend: Rear ended in Canton by a drunk illegal the night she found out she was pregnant. They didn't even write A berkeleyING TICKET. No bullE36 M3.
Also: Dictator Poop's ridiculously simple 3 step immigration reform plan:
Based on actual data; unemployment, reproduction rates, etc., establish a real number on how many people we will allow to immigrate per year. Homeboy in the video says let's go back to 1955 rates or whatever. Great. That's a starting point. NO WELFARE - if you can't figure out a way to make it here, we don't need you. Sorry. Get your handouts from your current government. I've known quite a few illegals here in GA. I've never known one. Seriously NOT ONE who's dinner I wasn't paying for every night. That's not right.
Deportation: I had a righteous, detailed plan, including the cost...which was minimal, to deport 10 - 20 million illegals, posted here on the old board. I should look it up. But basically, we've got tens of thousands of school buses that are parked for 150 or so days a year (weekends/summer.) I'm guessing if you added up the welfare & foodstamp checks for the month on that bus, the ride would pay for itself ten-fold.
LEGALIZE IT! All of it! Drug-related crime would drop to next to nothing...especially violent crime...especially in border states. Tax the growers/producers. Tax the sales. Employ 10's of thousands of AMERICANS in a new, booming business. Take a FRACTION of what you spent on enforcement and spend it on treatment for anyone who wants it, 100% taxpayer funded. Mandatory treatment for anyone committing a crime related to the hard stuff (you get all whacked out on heroin and wreck your car.) How is this relevant? Destroy the South American drug trade and get the gangs out of government.
Despite Matt Damon's best wishes, it's not as simple as he and Neil imagine.
DoctorBlade wrote: Despite Matt Damon's best wishes, it's not as simple as he and Neil imagine.
Nothing ever is, there's not a social problem out there that doesn't become more complicated the longer you examine it. Unlike, say, mechanical engineering.
The real problem is there's a lot of people out there who are trained from birth that everything is to be fixed immediately, don't think a problem all the way through, start a half baked idea to fix that problem, force it on the rest of us and then there's a bigger mess than before.
Happens on both left and right, no one has a monopoly on it.
I don't see why if we have ?? 4 borders why do we use so much of our resources on the one that is the smallest? If I was rich or near rich I would hype up Canada. As they are a threat to my job and my children's way of life. (curtis73) "Canada has some excellent secondary education that is affordable". In El Paso there are 2 border patrol agents ever 50 yards. more in some places. And we are adding more.
Now don't get too bent I don't speak Mexican but I do love to eat Mexican. I just don't get why they are the bad guy.
Heck I was rear-ended buy one last week. Asked him if he wonted to buy my car or file it with his ins. I still own the car 
GVX19 wrote: I don't see why if we have ?? 4 borders why do we use so much of our resources on the one that is the smallest? If I was rich or near rich I would hype up Canada. As they are a threat to my job and my children's way of life. (curtis73) "Canada has some excellent secondary education that is affordable". In El Paso there are 2 border patrol agents ever 50 yards. more in some places. And we are adding more. Now don't get too bent I don't speak Mexican but I do love to eat Mexican. I just don't get why they are the bad guy. Heck I was rear-ended buy one last week. Asked him if he wonted to buy my car or file it with his ins. I still own the car
Note Canada is not on the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Present-day_countries_of_origin
Get it?
GVX19 wrote: I don't see why if we have ?? 4 borders why do we use so much of our resources on the one that is the smallest?
Umm...because that's the one people routinely cross illegally. 
Curmudgeon wrote: Know what you mean. Ask Toyman about his son getting rearended by a drunk illegal.
My sister got broadsided by a drunk Illegal at 11:00 in the morning. Never even touched the brakes as he ran the red light. Bent her early-90s Suburban in half like a croissant. Didn't do her any good either. Of course he's completely uninsured and has a net worth of $4.99. She took it all on the chin and not a damn thing happened to him.
No, it's not only Mexicans or all Mexicans ( or any particular group) but it is a real physical problem.
curtis73 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote: Illegals are here because it benefits both sides, the illegals make money 'under the table' without taxation and the employer doesn't have to supply insurance etc. It's lucrative enough for both sides that it keeps going despite the risks.^^^ THIS.
+2
Anti-stance wrote:curtis73 wrote:+2Curmudgeon wrote: Illegals are here because it benefits both sides, the illegals make money 'under the table' without taxation and the employer doesn't have to supply insurance etc. It's lucrative enough for both sides that it keeps going despite the risks.^^^ THIS.
The problem is that there's very little risk for either party...until some local yokel politician gets a hard-on for somebody. So once one industry starts hiring illegals for unskilled labor, everyone in that industry has the option of following suit, or not being competitive in the industry.
The illegal problem is bad and getting worse in North Georgia. How do they handle it? ICE will "randomly" (SUUUUUURE) raid one chicken processing plant, carpet manufacturing plant, etc. and shut the place down. Meanwhile, the guy down the street who has twice as many illegals working for him...but donated to all the right campaigns snatches up a huge share of the market.
There is an aspect that most people overlook.
Mexico WANTS to export some of it's citizenry. It brings in over $20 billion per year in direct revenues transferred from illegal workers in the US to their families in Mexico. That's Mexico's second largest income source (oil exports are #1).
Plus, Mexico doesn't have to pay for the education or medical costs of those workers or their children.
It's a pretty good deal for Mexico.
SVreX brought up a good point that isn't limited to just Mexico or illegal immigrants. A lot of families in south america rely on money sent from America by family members working legally and illegally and it is a huge amount of money.
edit TMI
This is an interesting thread, but Elysium doesn't have any message....
Was it a good movie?
"'Elysium doesn’t have a message either,' Blomkamp says with a laugh."
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/07/blomkamp-elysium/all/
BTW...
For the record, Mexico is NOT in South America.
It's actually not even Central America.
It's North America.
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