A couple months ago I started having intermittent insomnia. At least one night pretty much every week. Can't figure out what is wrong or what to do about it.
The trouble isn't getting drowsy or being kept up by racing thoughts. It's like... I sink down into the first level of sleep but "not-quite-fully-asleep", and I just can't get fully asleep.
I do all the good sleep hygiene things you're supposed to. I used to sleep really well on the regular. This has been going on for months and it's getting to be a lot.
Had two Dr. consults. Got Hydroxizine (an antihistamine) which didn't particularly help, then later Trazodone which... possibly helps. Marijuana seems like it maybe(?) helps the most, but it seems to just keep me comfortably in that "not-quite-fully-asleep" state longer.
What is maddening is that this is ongoing and NONE of the medical advice I'm seeing online seems to be anything that can steer me better. The only one is that I keep seeing conflicting things about whether reading in bed is good or not. I've always read in bed before falling asleep. Now I'm not sure if that's something I should try to change.
I don't know if this is anything more than a minor rant. I figure it's unlikely that anyone here will have better input than my doctors.
Are you a snorrer when you do sleep?
Im inquiring towards sleep apnea.
Sleep is definitely something that has eluded me more as I've gotten older. Especially after I turned 50.
I've tried to stay away from my phone for an hour or so before going to bed. That seems to help when I can make myself do it.
Alcohol needs to be consumed and then "processed" long before I go to bed. The more I drink, the worse I sleep.
John Welsh said:
Are you a snorrer when you do sleep?
Not particularly. This isn't an issue with being woken up from sleep. It's like... I stop short of being fully asleep.
I maybe have the symptoms of low-key restless leg syndrome. Frequently have antsy legs and the urge to move them. I don't think that's causal to this issue, and there's really nothing that can be done to treat that.
Beer Baron said:
I maybe have the symptoms of low-key restless leg syndrome. Frequently have antsy legs and the urge to move them. I don't think that's causal to this issue, and there's really nothing that can be done to treat that.
My grandmother takes Pramipexole for that, but hers is more serious, she gets terrible leg spasms in her sleep.
I've also been having insomnia over the last few years and I don't read in bed before trying to sleep for whatever that's worth...but I do often read somewhere else first.
Have you looked into Yoga, Meditation etc.? Someone once told me, "If you can't control your mind, someone else will."
914Driver said:
Have you looked into Yoga, Meditation etc.? Someone once told me, "If you can't control your mind, someone else will."
Yup. Meditate on the regular. Also do other things like listening to records that are very meditative. Not yoga per se, but I take time to stretch before bed.
These are all things I'd been doing leading up to the sudden insomnia issues.
On thing I'm going to try changing is shutting down the computer earlier. I got Baldur's Gate 3 a couple weeks back and that's had me more inclined to be on the computer later in the day. Video games like that tend to get me amped up.
Insomnia started before that, so it's not the origin of my problems, but it's not helping.
I kind of wonder if, at this point, it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy and my fear of insomnia is what is causing things. Which means what I really need is a way to break the cycle. I need to have good sleep consistently so that I stop thinking "am I going to have insomnia tonight?"
You said you do all the things you are supposed to do, but what are those things?
MrJoshua said:
You said you do all the things you are supposed to do, but what are those things?
Consistent bedtime (9:45 +/- 15) and waking time. Keep room cool, dark and relaxing. Bed only for sleep and sex (with the caveat of reading as part of my bedtime ritual). Exercise (but not too late). Meditate. Stay off of screens for about an hour before bed. No smoking. No caffeine in the afternoon. Don't eat a big dinner, but not completely empty stomach. Really nice mattress and pillow.
The only questionable things - I might have some alcohol within 2 hours of bedtime. But not always and it doesn't seem to correlate to my insomnia. I had Insomnia Saturday night, and I didn't drink after 7pm. And the reading in bed thing, but I see really mixed information about that, and I've lately chosen to read a relatively dry book, 'American Prometheus', the biography of Robert Openheimer.
In reply to Beer Baron :
The only things I can see other than what you are already doing are just pushing things farther. Cut out even more caffeine and/or move it earlier, exercise before lunch, avoid cold exposure in the evening before getting in your cool bed, and cut out more alcohol and/or move it earlier.
Can you remove the negative effects of the fear of insomnia? You are doing pretty darn well with your efforts to control your insomnia. Can you change the mindset of -"I have to sleep." to "I have to provide my body with the opportunity to sleep!" You will always eventually sleep, and you are giving your body great opportunities every night. At that point I might just be proud of myself and accept that I am occasionally not going to sleep.
In reply to MrJoshua :
Not much caffeine to cut out. I pretty much always drink ONE cup of coffee and ONE cup of tea in the morning.
Alcohol, I'm experimenting with cutting back and pushing earlier. I'm probably going to loosen up just slightly and allow myself to sip 1/2 - 3/4 oz of good whisky while listening to music. I think the mental benefits of being able to enjoy something that I take that much pleasure in will greatly outweigh the sleep effects of half a serving of alcohol.
Last night was better than usual. I think it's probably a good template that I'm going to try to shift back to in order to fall back into a routine.
No computer games in the evening. One beer late afternoon. Watched some TV, but intentionally, not just sitting on the couch because nothing better to do. Listened to one side of a record while having a pre-bed snack (fruit and cheese). Read in bed.
Didn't agonize about reading in bed or not. It worked in the past and I like it. I only got through maybe 2 pages before I couldn't stay awake. I feel like this was actually one of the most helpful things. Relatively dry non-fiction (Openheimer Biography) is probably the way to go. The first bad night of insomnia occurred when hitting the climax of an exciting pulpy novel.
I'm going to try to keep these routines going for another 2-6 weeks.
400 milligrams of magnesium did more to help my sleep quality than anything else I have tried. I take it after dinner.
I read about it in a news blurb but there have been a few studies that back it up. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3703169/
In reply to Toyman! :
Hrm... that's worth looking into. Found this article from a medical source analyzing things: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/does-magnesium-help-you-sleep/
I'd normally say other things seem more likely, but the mention of "restless leg syndrome" makes this sound a bit more promising in my case.
I don't want to try a bunch of things and change too many variables at the same time and not know what the actually effective one was.
Toyman!
MegaDork
11/7/23 12:42 p.m.
In reply to Beer Baron :
There are apparently several formulations for magnesium supplements as well. The information I have read says if one formula doesn't help, another may. Magnesium oxide worked for me so I haven't tested any of the others.
https://www.health.com/types-of-magnesium-7853312
In reply to Beer Baron :
Something I've discovered, which may or may not be what you're experiencing - I find that I often feel like I'm not really asleep, more like I'm just laying in bed thinking about whatever. Only to wake/get up at some point & realize that apparently I was actually asleep - like SWMBO coming to bed, or having got up for work, etc.
Have you noticed anything like that?
I don't sleep as well as I used to. For me, the trick has been to stop worrying about it. It took a while to get there, but I will be there, middle of the night, seemingly wide awake, but warm and comfortable, and a while later it's time to get up... Doing the math, I will realize I was asleep for a reasonable portion of that time. I think it's an age, stiffness, gotta pee thing.
Your mileage may vary.
Last night I had all the makings for a good night's sleep - reasonable bed time; avoided the phone; etc..., but boy was it NOT. Constant waking up and vividly strange dreams. One issue I have is I gave myself a grade 2 right shoulder separation 3 years ago. One side effect is if I sleep on my right side, something about the misaligned shoulder cuts off circulation to my arm and it'll go numb. And the change in blood flow will give me strange dreams and restless sleep. If I sleep on my back, woe be me - I'm guaranteed to get strange dreams.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Beer Baron :
Something I've discovered, which may or may not be what you're experiencing - I find that I often feel like I'm not really asleep, more like I'm just laying in bed thinking about whatever. Only to wake/get up at some point & realize that apparently I was actually asleep - like SWMBO coming to bed, or having got up for work, etc.
I don't know. I have not had that experience of getting woken up by things and realizing I was actually asleep.
It's tough to tell how asleep I am or not. I am definitely getting *into* the sleep cycle but not having a full sleep cycle. I will be in bed for hours and not achieve REM sleep. Here's a quick rundown of stages of the sleep cycle. It feels like I'm just in a prolonged N1 stage, but it's possible I get into N2. I can't say for certain.
It feels more like I'm meditating than sleeping. Like I'm very aware of the state of my body and physical sensations. I frequently have intense awareness of my heart beating. I have thoughts, but I'm pretty good at letting them come and go, rather than wrestling with them. Very often I'll have a song stuck in my head.
Past couple nights have been good. But then... my pattern is to usually go about a week between nights of insomnia, so let's see what keeps happening.
It feels qualitatively more like being back into my normal routine than the past couple weeks. I feel like I'm not "trying" to fall asleep as hard as the past couple weeks. Just not worrying seems to make things slip more naturally.
Music in the basement until I'm drowsy and then reading in bed seem to be good. Taking a hit of marijuana (equivalent of 1-beer buzz) around 6:30 or 7:00 seems to help.
