Past couple years I have been interested in FV, F4/5/6 open wheel cars as track only not to race or autocross. I don't see them at track events and from what I understand most tracks group them together with other open wheels cars. Does anybody have any experience? Is it just best to find a production based car to do track days?
They will be put into a group with other open-wheeled cars and possibly caged production-based cars at most track events. In my experience this tends to be a smaller group.
Is a production-based car better? I would only say yes for sure if you can make it a dual-use car which can save a lot of money overall vs. a dedicated track car. If you're comparing two options for dedicated track cars, it depends what you're willing to spend and how much you value speed, and what kind of traffic you want to deal with on track.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Most HPDE organizers I've talked to won't allow an open wheeler on track unless you're running time trials, if that. One of the reasons I sold my Formula 1st, because in order to use it properly you really need a race license. Also, compared to your average track day vehicle, an FF, Formula First or FV is pretty dang slow - you might feel like you're going a million miles an hour, until dude with the slightly warmed over Miata blows past on the straight.
It's pretty dangerous mixing regular vehicles and open wheelers, so there is a good reason for that.
If you want to run purpose built vehicles rather than a converted production car, look at Sports Racers - essentially the same thing technology wise, but the wheels are covered and they tend to be more welcome than open wheelers. One exception to that might be running a Locost or a Caterham, but I'd double check that with the organizers.
All that said, compared to your typical trackday car, a sports racer or an open wheeler tends to cost a lot more to run. Parts tend to be a lot more expensive and needed a lot more often - for example, check out the maintenance schedule on a Radical, IIRC the front uprights are good for something like 50 hours.
Oh, and don't forget, with vehicles like that you need a tow vehicle and trailer.
Even if you can find a group that will allow it there's no way I'd run an open wheel car in a run group with full fendered cars. Open wheel cars are just not designed to handle an impact from a 2,000 lb plus car. Not to mention that the bumpers on most cars are at about head height with the driver of an open wheel car. I know people do it and so far I haven't heard of anyone getting killed but, yikes!
In reply to APEowner :
I've actually done it. It was rather stressful.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
To be fair, 50 hours is quite a long time in 20 minute increments, and I have heard of people damaging production uprights in far less track time. SN197 uprights were good for about one or two hours before there was a production change.
F500 owner here. I would tend to disagree with boxheadtim characterizing a FF as slow. That said, yeah, your laptime isn't made on the straight. Look at laptimes to settle it, I don't want to cause an argument.
You have highlighted a primary struggle for open wheelers. Unless you don't fear death and can find an organization that doesn't fear your death, you won't be mixing with production cars. ( For reference, my head is lower than the doorhandles on my sn95 mustang) For the most part, the narrative is, "bring enough wings and things for your own run group and we will do it". Either that or " we have enough production cars to fill out event, it's not worthwhile for us to consider".
There are groups specific to wings and things that run test days, but most of them are almost invite only and you need a race license.
I am looking at Pennsylvania Hillclimb Association events at Summit Point to get my feet wet with time trials.
Insofar as expense, an F5 isn't bad at all. Buy-in is cheap, maintenance isn't bad at all compared to other club racing legal vehicles. I may rebuild a motor a touch more often than a spec Miata, but it's dirt cheap and easy on a two stroke and the F6 bike motor cars are just a junkyard bike motor (legit runoff wins on salvage motors). Tires last forever (for race tires) due to big tire light light car.
If you don't want to autocross or wheel to wheel, it's not a great fit. I'd consider a legends car or a (well built, big good cage) locost if you want small light cheap speed. The legends car is amazingly affordable and likely where I'd start for a better option down your desired use.
I'd love to get another person into F5, but I don't want you jumping in with your eyes shut.
I will say this. I've autocrossed since 2004 from esp to sts to XP. Anything on street tires was getting boring. The F5 makes my hands shake after a run. Easy FTD unless a decent shifter kart shows in most cases.
Regarding tow vehicle in the case of F5. The car weighs 650lbs without me in it. If you right size an open trailer to the car, very good chance your daily can tow it. Cars are tiny and could fit in a shed.
Locally I've seen open wheel cars getting non-race track time in their own group at Driver's School or Test N' Tune (both usually hosted by a racing club Friday before a race weekend) but not at a track day or HPDE. There may not be very many of this type of event compared to track day, and YMMV, but wanted to bring up the possibility.
Here in NorCal I know of only one track day group that allows open wheel cars to run at all, and they usually only have 3 or 4 events per years (golden gate lotus club). Practically speaking, there's nowhere to drive an open wheel car on a track unless you have a wheel-to-wheel race license. You can do open test days, but those usually require that license.
And yes, the reasons for that have to do with safety. Compared to a same lap time production car they're usually slower on the straights but much faster in the corners. They tend to surprise production car drivers when they show up to pass them "out of nowhere" (small, hard to see, and fast), and having a 4000 pound Camaro turn down on your 800 pound formula car is not a good place to be. We can argue about whether or not the production car driver should be more aware, but this is the reality at track days.
I have a wheel 2 wheel license, but rather just do track days and rent for endurance races. I like the open wheel car because I can actually tow it (Cx9 tow capacity is not great for towing a car) I may just get a street/track car that will give me more opportunity or I just might stick with karting practice. Just thinking it through, thanks all for the comments.
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