Will wrote: Does this mean they're going to fine you if your odometer doesn't work?
or not let you have plates.
Will wrote: Does this mean they're going to fine you if your odometer doesn't work?
or not let you have plates.
leave the "gas" tax alone and raise the diesel tax...
yes the trucking(any heavy transport) industry is trying to get more subsidies... welcome to 'Merica... if things were "fair", we'd have $60,000 fines for 13 over, and $100,000 fines for unsafe vehicles, and multi-million $ fines for corporate repeat offenders
This seems like a dumb, and needlessly complex idea. Which means that some government somewhere I will definitely adopt it. It would be much simpler to just adjust the fuel taxes, and raise the registration fees for EVs so that they get to pay a fair share too.
BTW, How would this work for commercial and fleet vehicles registered in Oregon that don't live there and never drive there?
I tell ya, the downloadable content is going to kill the popularity of the game franchise
Come on, guys.
Trucks equal about 10% of the vehicles on the road, but pay 34% of the State and Federal usage taxes. The average annual taxes on a commercial truck is about $16,000 per vehicle.
When you drive over 40K miles per year and get only 6 mpg, you are certainly paying taxes. Lots.
Plus load fees, oversized load permits, interstate permits,.
You really think the rate per mile is going to be the same for a passenger vehicle and for a Class 8??
I do agree, however, that this is a stupid idea (though probably inevitable).
oldeskewltoy wrote: leave the "gas" tax alone and raise the diesel tax...
And charge a tax on retreads to fund cleanup of the rubber scraps along the interstates.
turboswede wrote: Think long term about what you could do with this information. You could: Raise the rate while traveling through high congestion areas Raise the rate during peak travel times. Holiday? oh. yeah the rate will go up.
Try paying 8X the normal toll rate when driving a Miata with a tire trailer, because it's a 3-axle vehicle (even though it weighs about half what a full-size SUV does), autocrosses tend to be on spring/summer weekends (tolls are doubled), and the venue just happens to be partway down the main route to the beach (and back - so I get dinged both ways).
FWIW I don't think this is a stupid concept; I just think there is no sane and effective way to implement it.
Duke wrote: FWIW I *don't* think this is a stupid concept; I just think there is no sane and effective way to implement it.
That's not likely to deter the government. 
It's never stopped them before!
SVreX wrote: Come on, guys. Trucks equal about 10% of the vehicles on the road, but pay 34% of the State and Federal usage taxes. The average annual taxes on a commercial truck is about $16,000 per vehicle. When you drive over 40K miles per year and get only 6 mpg, you are certainly paying taxes. Lots. Plus load fees, oversized load permits, interstate permits,. You really think the rate per mile is going to be the same for a passenger vehicle and for a Class 8?? I do agree, however, that this is a stupid idea (though probably inevitable).
34% is a hefty amount, but by the proportion of road damage big rigs (and other high-road-pressure vehicles) cause, they should be paying at least twice that.
spitfirebill wrote:oldeskewltoy wrote: leave the "gas" tax alone and raise the diesel tax...And charge a tax on retreads to fund cleanup of the rubber scraps along the interstates.
I'm fine with the retreads but stop penalizing diesel.
Jacking up the diesel tax seems like a pretty ham-fisted approach - collateral damage would include everything from farming and construction to Jetta drivers. And if you jack it up high enough, the trucking industry would just convert to some other fuel.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
Mercifully, agricultural diesel is tax exempt.....its why you get fined metric E36 M3loads if you get caught using it on the road(its dyed pink) 
^Ah good point, I forgot about that.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
Construction diesel is also tax exempt.
GameboyRMH wrote:SVreX wrote: Come on, guys. Trucks equal about 10% of the vehicles on the road, but pay 34% of the State and Federal usage taxes. The average annual taxes on a commercial truck is about $16,000 per vehicle. When you drive over 40K miles per year and get only 6 mpg, you are certainly paying taxes. Lots. Plus load fees, oversized load permits, interstate permits,. You really think the rate per mile is going to be the same for a passenger vehicle and for a Class 8?? I do agree, however, that this is a stupid idea (though probably inevitable).34% is a hefty amount, but by the proportion of road damage big rigs (and other high-road-pressure vehicles) cause, they should be paying at least twice that.
Let me try to word it differently..
If the average passenger vehicle travels 15,000 miles per year, and gets 25 mpg, then the average passenger vehicle pays $110.40 per year.
The average commercial truck pays $16,000.00.
So, you think it should be more like $32,000.00? Based on what?
Sounds fishy to me.
interesting little mathematics I just did.
Assuming a Suburban fully loaded, but without trailer equals 7600 pounds (rounded up)that puts 1895lbs per wheel on the ground.
Assuming 80,000lb fully loaded Semi.. that puts 4444 lbs per wheel.. so, about double the road pressure. I used both as fully loaded even though many are never at full capacity... and certainly not dry goods trailers.
Datsun1500 wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: 34% is a hefty amount, but by the proportion of road damage big rigs (and other high-road-pressure vehicles) cause, they should be paying at least twice that.Will you complain when prices of goods go up to cover it, or is the company just supposed to eat it and not pass it on?
Personally, no I would not. I think its a much more direct approach than subsidizing it via fuel taxes.
As long as they don't tax my bicycle! 
Datsun1500 wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: 34% is a hefty amount, but by the proportion of road damage big rigs (and other high-road-pressure vehicles) cause, they should be paying at least twice that.Will you complain when prices of goods go up to cover it, or is the company just supposed to eat it and not pass it on?
Apparently bus companies are supposed to just eat it, based on another post in this thread.
Two pages of discussion on how and from whom the government should more be taking more money. No one asked why they can't make do with what they already take. It's assumed without question that if the roads are bad, more money will fix them.
We're doomed.
No one asked why they can't make do with what they already take. It's assumed without question that if the roads are bad, more money will fix them.
Would it not? If there is no funding for the roads clearly more money would fix them. That is how budgets work. "I want good roads but I don't want to pay for them!"
If i'm at my job and we need 30 TVs to view live streams and we don't have a budget the TVs don't get ordered and they don't go up. Then we get more money allocated and we can complete the request. And yes these TVs are required for this place to work just as much is roads are required for you to get to work.
If you want Oregon or whatever to become Illinois where you have road tolls. Either the private company that now builds your roads because you hate the government charging you for them or the government never having money for the roads so then charge you for driving on them.
This is the result of how things work. If you are not spending money because the roads are "fine" the money for the roads goes away in terms of tax cuts or spending increases elsewhere. If the money is gone and you need to rebuild the roads then you need to get the money for the roads. You the voter and the people you vote for care only about the here and now. They don't care having money set aside for these roads for years to come. If the money is there it WILL go in the ways I described. That's just the results of democracy.
Sure we could become a dictatorship like China and have vast long term plans for things but that's just not how America works.
This is effectively "toll roads" except without the infrastructure of toll booths and employees that unnecessarily leech money.
My dad's friends bitch about the roads in Illinois all the time and are against toll increases, but want their medicare and social security to be secure, and want to cut taxes lol. They want all the entitlements, all the advantages of government, whine when the police get cuts, but want to pay LESS. You pay less you get less services. Sorry.
I'm not for more taxes on trucks, but even though their wheels only exert about double the weight, the forces upon those wheels and tires certainly cause more road damage. Asphalt bunches up at intersections because of heavy trucks. Just like a cat that slides on a rug.
In reply to kanaric:
"No funding for the roads" is a gross exaggeration.
I believe Boost Crazy was questioning why we should accept the grotesque mismanagement of the funds that DO exist as normal, and approve additional funds for the mismanagement monkeys to misappropriate.
Its a VERY reasonable question.
I get taxed based on the value of the car I own. It doesn't even have to be road legal or driving. None of that money goes to the roads, as far as I know.
If the government wants money, they take it, and they like to hit you where you can't possibly avoid it.
Boost_Crazy wrote: Two pages of discussion on how and from whom the government should more be taking more money. No one asked why they can't make do with what they already take. It's assumed without question that if the roads are bad, more money will fix them. We're doomed.
You must have missed the income based speeding fine thread.
It seems like the majority of poster think letting the government take more money from the other guy is fine, as long as they don't take more from the individual posting.
Don't try to add reason to the argument. If you mention that higher taxes for trucks will mean higher prices for fuel, food, and other items the response will be the truckers should make less money to compensate for the higher taxes.
Also forget about asking how the weather related damage should be allocated. How do you split up the cost for Potholes, frost heaves, and cracks due to cold weather? What about the sagging mentioned at intersections, if temperature remain low enough the asphalt won't shift as easily, so how do you split up the effect of warm temps?
Or facts... Like commercial trucks already pay taxes on fuel in addition to having to pay quarterly use taxes based on mileage to each state they travel through.
Don't forget they need permits from each state they travel through, unlike a car where you pay one state for registration and can go anywhere while only paying taxes on the fuel you buy.
But let's just add more taxes to the trucks so it can get passed along to the rest of us.
kanaric wrote:No one asked why they can't make do with what they already take. It's assumed without question that if the roads are bad, more money will fix them.Would it not? If there is no funding for the roads clearly more money would fix them. That is how budgets work. "I want good roads but I don't want to pay for them!" If i'm at my job and we need 30 TVs to view live streams and we don't have a budget the TVs don't get ordered and they don't go up. Then we get more money allocated and we can complete the request. And yes these TVs are required for this place to work just as much is roads are required for you to get to work. If you want Oregon or whatever to become Illinois where you have road tolls. Either the private company that now builds your roads because you hate the government charging you for them or the government never having money for the roads so then charge you for driving on them. This is the result of how things work. If you are not spending money because the roads are "fine" the money for the roads goes away in terms of tax cuts or spending increases elsewhere. If the money is gone and you need to rebuild the roads then you need to get the money for the roads. You the voter and the people you vote for care only about the here and now. They don't care having money set aside for these roads for years to come. If the money is there it WILL go in the ways I described. That's just the results of democracy. Sure we could become a dictatorship like China and have vast long term plans for things but that's just not how America works. This is effectively "toll roads" except without the infrastructure of toll booths and employees that unnecessarily leech money. My dad's friends bitch about the roads in Illinois all the time and are against toll increases, but want their medicare and social security to be secure, and want to cut taxes lol. They want all the entitlements, all the advantages of government, whine when the police get cuts, but want to pay LESS. You pay less you get less services. Sorry.
I think the problem a lot of intelligent, cognizant people have is that there is a LOT of money already being taken in by governments--local, state and federal. The problem is in how that money is being allocated, and how carefully it's being managed.
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