If you absolutely have to get from A to B in any condition, the only answer is Toyota Land Cruiser. Dig deep and pick up the LX-Cruiser and you will be a happy man. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f3251ad4-77d2-4728-923a-2980c86297a5/
If you absolutely have to get from A to B in any condition, the only answer is Toyota Land Cruiser. Dig deep and pick up the LX-Cruiser and you will be a happy man. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f3251ad4-77d2-4728-923a-2980c86297a5/
ProDarwin said:clutchsmoke said:johndej said:This one's local
I don't think you'll find anything better than this.
How do you tell if its awd?
"Real Time All Wheel Drive" decal on the lift gate glass.
93gsxturbo said:If you absolutely have to get from A to B in any condition, the only answer is Toyota Land Cruiser. Dig deep and pick up the LX-Cruiser and you will be a happy man. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f3251ad4-77d2-4728-923a-2980c86297a5/
What manual transmission do you propose he swaps in and that alone is gonna be $10k lol.
This original question is so vague. What is "best" driving to you? Most capable? Most comfortable? Is this an everyday sit in traffic DD or occasional toy?
I still contend a part time 4wd 60 for has to get there factor. Best/safest for my wife who doesn't give a E36 M3 about cars but needs apple CarPlay and autostart is her AWD Prius but auto and not under 10k.
For snow you want the same thing as you want for spirited driving, good balance, great tires, not too much weight. My favorite snow machines were 85 RX7, 89 BMW M3, and especially a 92 525i, all manual with snow tires. Notice, well balanced, MANUAL. Volvo AWD is good in the snow, it act like a rear bias when on the go petal. Subarus are also magic in the snow, that symmetrical E36 M3 is real, on ice I let go of the wheel, hit the go petal and it just went...perfectly straight. Would you take a tall heavy vehicle on a wet track and expect it to perform well? Would you take a light well balance car with the best rain tires on a wet track and have fun? Snow is just a greased track, it can be fun and safe.
Worst was Jeep Grand Cherokee, it had crap new tires on it.
I hate anything front wheel drive unless it had the best snow tires then it was fine except for in the deep or slippery stuff. Wait! As long as you only drive on plowed, salted roads and it stays above 10 degrees outside so the roads don't freeze front wheel drive is fine. So FWD is fine 98% of the time and the other 2% you can choose to stay home.
Basically anything that pushes too much wind is not good, anything that tries to steer and propel with the same tires is not good.
My full sized van wasn't bad when it had great tires. Pushed wind yet RWD, and good tires. Hmmm
So basically put Blizzaks on anything and it will be great, or start with a great car and enjoy.
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/roswell-2002-honda-crv-ex-awd-145k/7373219784.html
2002 Honda Crv awd stick with Blizzaks tires would work well. Later you can turbo it and have some fun. Dedicated snow tires are key.
In reply to akylekoz :
Manual steering is more important than manual trans, IMO.
And the car has to weigh under 2400lb, the lighter the better.
I got my Subaru stuck, I never got my Golf stuck. Driving a 30-35 year old VW in the winter is a crime against enthusiasts, though. I wonder if you can get Blizzaks that fit a new Mirage, that'd be a decent disposable winter car.
ProDarwin said: My unicycle is AWD
03Panther said:You are correct in semantics. Partially. It is also a matter of marketing, but isn't everything?
(REASONABLE ARGUMENT)
That's a well written and easy to understand summary of the whole thing.
The only quibble I have is that power isn't sent to all four wheels in an AWD setup- It can be, if all four wheels are sharing the same level of traction.
And yes, I knew the difference, and I was being extra.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:03Panther said:You are correct in semantics. Partially. It is also a matter of marketing, but isn't everything?
(REASONABLE ARGUMENT)
That's a well written and easy to understand summary of the whole thing.
The only quibble I have is that power isn't sent to all four wheels in an AWD setup- It can be, if all four wheels are sharing the same level of traction.
And yes, I knew the difference, and I was being extra.
Ah, but differentials send torque, not power. Assuming an open diff, if one end of the differential has traction and the other does not, both ends still get an equal amount of torque. That torque is effectively "zero", but it is still being equally distributed.
People say they want 50/50 torque split when they usually mean the exact opposite.
My AWD Volkswagen had three bevel diffs. 25/25/25/25 torque distribution. If one wheel was off the ground, all four wheels got zero torque. Torque gets split evenly: one wheel spins madly and the other three go nowhere. However, you could lock the center and rear differentials so that all the torque could be sent to the two front wheels, or as little as one rear wheel.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
My van is LSD and the AWD t-case has a viscous coupling with a 40/60 torque split. So I get 30/30 to the rear and 0-40% up front depending on the traction that one or both front wheels get. More than enough for snow in most cases, even on my highway rib truck tires.... as long as I don't plan on stopping or turning.
A/Ts are on the list.
One of the best cars i drove in the snow was a Peugeot 405 mi16 on all season tires so i vote for that.
The mk2 jetta was great as well.
In recent years I have snow-driven:
FE/FWD on winters (PGT, Mazda6, Ody);
FE/RWD on winters (Sonoma);
FE/AWD on winters (E60 525xi);
FE/FWD on no-seasons (Ody);
FE/AWD on no-seasons (E60);
best choice of these, by far, is FE/ AWD on winters. I'd like to give ME/RWD a chance (Boxster/Cayman) and of course I wouldn't refuse RE/RWD (911), as that's what I grew up in (Corvair van).
Real honest to Dog snow tires make a huge difference regardless of how / where the drive wheels are. I’ve driven a ton in horrendous conditions, some of my fave’s: Best vehicle that had no business being good in the snow, ‘94 short wheelbase Dodge V6 250 work van with a lot of weight in the back. I could drive it into a snow bank, stop and then keep going. Combo of weight, short wheelbase and moderate power I guess. My ‘96 Dodge Dakota V6 4WD pickup with Goodyear Wranglers was unstoppable. All time champ was my 07 Ford F-150 4WD extended cab with the 4.6 V8. Pulling that lever into 4 wheel high was like repealing the laws of physics. I drove close to 100 miles in 4WD to get home in a surprise snow storm in it including a few unplowed roads, just amazing.
Anything will work with good tires AND SWITCHES TO TURN OFF THE ELECTRONIC NANNIES.....capitals are intentional. Electronic traction control that cuts power halfway through a snow bank will eventually lead to my demise. The option of turning it off so I can drive and modulate the throttle and tire slip myself would be high on my list. When we get snow here in Michigan the traction control on the MINI gets turned off.
I also have a 4wd Canyon. It won't get stuck, but it doesn't really like to turn on slippery stuff. Anecdotally, when I was still working and commuting the 4wd trucks were usually the vehicles the furthest off the freeway.
One thing a lot of people overlook is actually how snow tires work. They work by forcing the snow to grip to the snow, not the tire. If you look at good modern snow tires, they have way more (and usually smaller) sipes. The goal is for those sipes to get packed with snow, then just like making a snowball, the snow in the sipes packs on to the snow on the ground and creates more friction/sticktion than the rubber treadblocks can. The secret to getting up a snowy driveway with snow tires is to apply only enough torque to prevent wheel spin... not really different than on dry pavement.
The other thing many people overlook is the benefit of weight and contact patch. While it's difficult to alter the physical area of the contact patch with just tire size, it's shape has a lot to do with it. A skinny tire will have a long/narrow contact shape while a wide tire will have a sideways patch. Skinny tires tend to do better in snow because of the long skinny patch generating grip further fore and aft in the patch. Compacting a wide piece of snow into the treads is easy to just roll out the back and get ejected. Compacting a long, skinny chunk of snow usually provides more traction. Same reason when you're stuck in the mud that you stuff a board in front of the tire longways instead of sideways.
On the topic of weight, the same principle applies as ice skating. You've surely noticed that making a snowball with "wet" snow is easy, but it takes far more mitten pressure to make a snowball out of cold/fluffy snow. Ice skates glide as well as they do because of the PSI of the blades. Your weight is suspended on a very tiny amount of area. The pressure from the blades actually melts the ice for a split second under the blades. In the same way, a snow tire gets better traction by the amount of pressure it exerts on the snow. The more weight, the more pressure, and therefore the easier it is for the tire and sipes to compress the snow to a point where it becomes plastic and bonds to other snow.
So if you have a Miata with fat rubber and flares that you want to drive in the snow, swap out for some 185mm snow tires and throw a 50-lb bag of crushed gravel in the boot. Not only will the gravel increase the tires' traction, but if you happen to get stuck you can throw a few handfuls of gravel under the tires.
Jeep XJ.
preach (fs) said:Jeep XJ.
Except anywhere salt is used any jeep over 10 years old is a rare sight.
I won't add anything that hasn't been said, it's more about tires than the vehicle. I drove a 2wd b2300 with good snow tires for many winters up here in eastern Canada ...was never stuck if I wasn't going somewhere I wasn't meant to be.
I'll agree with many other posters.
RWD, FWD, or 4WD the tires have always made the biggest difference.
I used to have a B2200 2wd with snowtires and it did fine. I had a driveway that was uphill to the road, so I had a set of chains I carried, but never put on. I used to lay them down behind the wheels to get out of super slick driveways, then throw them in the bed and continue on my way.
wvumtnbkr said:4wd just means you get to the accident quicker. You can't turn or stop any better with 4wd or awd...
The answer is actually miata with snow tires. For real.
If the miata can't get going, you shouldn't be going.
Take the idea here, but put the engine over the drive wheels.
Hakkapeliitta R3s on Konig Rewind wheels...should be a blast.
In reply to FSP_ZX2 :
Can confirm this is the answer, I daily drove an AW11 MR2 for 4 years of mid-west winters and it did fantastic.
Suggestions for good chains or other type of traction adder for 33" truck tires?
pheller said:Suggestions for good chains or other type of traction adder for 33" truck tires?
Find a shop with a siping knife or do it yourself. Could stud them yourself but then that's your winter set permanently.
Do you just want chains for the occasional deep snow day or everyday through the winter? I would not use chains everyday for winter driving when you're going to get on the highway eventually.
wvumtnbkr said:4wd just means you get to the accident quicker. You can't turn or stop any better with 4wd or awd...
The answer is actually miata with snow tires. For real.
If the miata can't get going, you shouldn't be going.
Clearly you don't drive in snow and ice regularly. True snow tires like Blizzacks help you go, corner, and stop. 4WD & AWD also help. Combined allow winter fun.
A manual transmission is the worst thing for marginal traction. You'd need to slip the clutch far too much to get moving on ice and snow. Each shift is another cause for breaking traction.
While a manual gearbox adds a lot of fun to driving dry weather. It subtracts it on ice and snow.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:One thing a lot of people overlook is actually how snow tires work. They work by forcing the snow to grip to the snow, not the tire. If you look at good modern snow tires, they have way more (and usually smaller) sipes. The goal is for those sipes to get packed with snow, then just like making a snowball, the snow in the sipes packs on to the snow on the ground and creates more friction/sticktion than the rubber treadblocks can. The secret to getting up a snowy driveway with snow tires is to apply only enough torque to prevent wheel spin... not really different than on dry pavement.
The other thing many people overlook is the benefit of weight and contact patch. While it's difficult to alter the physical area of the contact patch with just tire size, it's shape has a lot to do with it. A skinny tire will have a long/narrow contact shape while a wide tire will have a sideways patch. Skinny tires tend to do better in snow because of the long skinny patch generating grip further fore and aft in the patch. Compacting a wide piece of snow into the treads is easy to just roll out the back and get ejected. Compacting a long, skinny chunk of snow usually provides more traction. Same reason when you're stuck in the mud that you stuff a board in front of the tire longways instead of sideways.
On the topic of weight, the same principle applies as ice skating. You've surely noticed that making a snowball with "wet" snow is easy, but it takes far more mitten pressure to make a snowball out of cold/fluffy snow. Ice skates glide as well as they do because of the PSI of the blades. Your weight is suspended on a very tiny amount of area. The pressure from the blades actually melts the ice for a split second under the blades. In the same way, a snow tire gets better traction by the amount of pressure it exerts on the snow. The more weight, the more pressure, and therefore the easier it is for the tire and sipes to compress the snow to a point where it becomes plastic and bonds to other snow.
So if you have a Miata with fat rubber and flares that you want to drive in the snow, swap out for some 185mm snow tires and throw a 50-lb bag of crushed gravel in the boot. Not only will the gravel increase the tires' traction, but if you happen to get stuck you can throw a few handfuls of gravel under the tires.
Curtis.
Great snow tires are made with softer rubber in order to conform with the snow.
My Blizzacks should not be used when temps are over 45 degrees F. If you do you tend to cook the compliance out of the tires.
frenchyd said:Clearly you don't drive in snow and ice regularly. True snow tires like Blizzacks help you go, corner, and stop. 4WD & AWD also help. Combined allow winter fun.A manual transmission is the worst thing for marginal traction. You'd need to slip the clutch far too much to get moving on ice and snow. Each shift is another cause for breaking traction.
While a manual gearbox adds a lot of fun to driving dry weather. It subtracts it on ice and snow.
I'm probably going to regret stirring this, but....
I have to disagree on the manual transmission.
Im not sure why you think there's a lot of slippage needed to get moving, just a light touch on the throttle and smooth operation of the clutch can avoid the need to abuse the clutch.
As for shifting, smooth shifts and throttle control can avoid wheel spin. Plan ahead to be in the right gear so you don't need to shift at the wrong time. The manual lets you select a taller gear to reduce wheel spin, and with a manual you have control to delay a downshift (i.e. when climbing an incline that can be the difference between maintaining traction or starting to spin because a downshift occurred sending more torque to the wheels than traction available).
Lastly, with a manual if you do find the rear (or all) wheels start to break traction and kick out, you can ease off the throttle and depress the clutch to allow wheels speed to match road speed and bring everything back in line.
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