Owning a plane on a grassroots budget?

Has anyone here done it?

I should have my private license finished within the next month or so. This this is really pushing me towards giving up on car stuffs in the pusuit of a new hobby, and hopefully when I get enough hours and the rest of my certifications, a new career.

From what I've figured, planes at the cheaper end of the used spectrum don't really cost any more than a moderately priced new-ish sports car ($30k range give or take), insurance is no worse than car insurance, annuals come out to costing about the same as 4-5 track days + consumables, and storage isn't that big of an extra cost, especially if I can find someone to split a hanger with.

I'm pretty confident I am underestimating and it will end up costing a lot more than fielding a decently quick car to a half dozen HPDEs a year, but I figured it will be worth it since it will hopefully lead to a career.

Now that I posted this I don't really know why I made a thread about it.

I guess I'm just stepping a bit outside of my comfort zone and just need some reassurace from the older/wiser anonymous masses about making some sacrifices now that will hopefully pay off later.

All I've really known my whole life is cars and computers, I've kind of played it safe never really taking any serious risks to further myself.

My son did the EAA's "Young Eagles" program with a local pilot. He says the way to go is to buy into a "club plane". Generally, the overall cost of the plane ends up getting split between 5 and 10 ways, with each person owning a "share" of the plane, and each being responsible for a "buy in" and then a portion of the storage and maintenance costs of the plane. The down side is that the plane may not always be available when you want it. He said he hadn't found that to be a huge issue as several of the co-owners in his group ended up only flying a few times per year. If you are just trying to build up some hours, though, you could probably work around the schedule of the other owners. FWIW, he seemed fairly well do to and said that he could afford to buy a decent plane, but storage and maintenance costs would eat him alive if he wasn't sharing them.

It sounds like your assesment of costs is correct. Driven5 on here I know is planning to make this move at some point in his life so you may reach out to him and see if he has any information to share (He is big into spreadsheets and I am fairly sure will have one that would help pinpoint the costs to buy, own and operate several popular sport planes )

Oh also consider Gliders if your goal is to just get in the air and have fun not try to do point ot point travel/exploration type things. I believe we have a recent convert to that as well that could relay the costs. I know Gliders can be very affordable to buy and if you have a local club tow costs are very affordable.

Very cool. I've been doing some consulting for a local flight club/school. You're pretty much on track on the buy-in for the low end - there's not a lot to the basics like a cessna 172. But a cheap buy in for one that's not up to date can cost you - sort of like a car with deferred maintenance - only there's people who will make you do the maintenance before you can use it. Budget for rebuilds/maintenance along with annuals.

Some costs if you actually use your license to do more than fly around in circles - ipad/tablet and subscriptions for flight planning programs (cheaper than the maps). Communication/navigation/instrument upgrades. For parts costs - porsche parts will start looking cheap. Fuel - $6+/gal. or you can offset with some flight club membership if the deal is right. The other option is just rent a plane as needed if you're not flying more than about 100 hrs/year. If you continue on the training route, instrument ratings, multi-engine ratings...

edit - I think AOPA.org has a calculator to help figure out cost of ownership. Also has a section on the site for the frugal flyer.

There's a guy on GRM that owns a nice little plane, maybe it's a Cub? Let's see if he shows up!

My dad is a pilot, and he lives on a private airpark in Florida, right by GRM HQ. Yes, his house is a hangar. Anyway, he got his A&P license in the Air Force a million years ago. He started off after getting his Private with a partial ownership in a little Cherokee 140. He was able to do all of the maintenance, which was the only way to really afford it. He was slowly able to buy out the other partners (2 or 3) until he owned the whole plane. Later he was able to sell that plane, and with quite a bit of added money, he got a twin Cessna 310 (which he still has). He has all of the certificates now except Instructor and does a few commercial flights now and then. A really big thing was the ability to pick up hours cheaply by joining the Civil Air Patrol and flying the cadets on orientation flights, plus flying search & rescue. He also wrote off a lot of flights/expenses by flying organs and patients with LifeFlight.

I think you are drastically underestimating the costs of a plane. From what I've seen, things are an order of magnitude more expensive (so a $70 alternator for your car is $700 on a plane).

This is the 310 btw:

In reply to Javelin:

Tell Ray I said hello!

I owned a Cessna 150 when I was 23 years old. I paid $20,000 for it and sold it a year later for 20K after logging over 200 hours. At the time I was making $45,000 a year on salary. My annual cost me $900 and cost of operation was $60 an hour. That is fuel plus $10 per hour in maintenance cost towards annual inspection and unknown issues. My hangar rent was (and still is) $180 a month. My insurance was $700 a year with AVEMCO. You can own a small single on a grassroots budget, but be sure to buy right and get a pre-buy inspection. I do not know what your budget is, but a Cessna 150 or older 172, maybe even a Piper PA-28 can be easily affordable. Hope this helps you a little.

I now have a 1964 Beech Debonair, not grassroots...

ZOOMX5 wrote: I owned a Cessna 150 when I was 23 years old. I paid $20,000 for it and sold it a year later for 20K after logging over 200 hours. At the time I was making $45,000 a year on salary. My annual cost me $900 and cost of operation was $60 an hour. That is fuel plus $10 per hour in maintenance cost towards annual inspection and unknown issues. My hangar rent was (and still is) $180 a month. My insurance was $700 a year with AVEMCO. You can own a small single on a grassroots budget, but be sure to buy right and get a pre-buy inspection. I do not know what your budget is, but a Cessna 150 or older 172, maybe even a Piper PA-28 can be easily affordable. Hope this helps you a little. I now have a 1964 Beech Debonair, not grassroots... <img src="http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae176/ZOOMX5/opn2013mx3_zps16846a1a.jpg

Sounds like you were in about the same position as I am right now, glad to know it's doable on my salary.

I didn't know annuals were that cheap for the 150s. I've been eyeballing the Glasair I FTs, from what I can find on the googles annuals for those range from $1500-2000.

Javelin wrote: This is the 310 btw: <img src="http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1290366F.jpg

Nice! Multiengines are awesome until you see the fuel consumption.

This is a good forum to ask questions:

http://pilotsofamerica.com

nocones wrote: It sounds like your assesment of costs is correct. Driven5 on here I know is planning to make this move at some point in his life so you may reach out to him and see if he has any information to share (He is big into spreadsheets and I am fairly sure will have one that would help pinpoint the costs to buy, own and operate several popular sport planes )

nocones wrote: Oh also consider Gliders if your goal is to just get in the air and have fun not try to do point ot point travel/exploration type things. I believe we have a recent convert to that as well that could relay the costs. I know Gliders can be very affordable to buy and if you have a local club tow costs are very affordable.

Cool, hopefully he sees this thread and posts. :)

A friend of mine has a glider and it would be awesome to go gliding with him, but he lives 600 miles away so that's out of the question sadly.

That's actually one of the two main reasons I wanted to get a plane, I'm in the Military doing IT type stuff. Being military I move around a lot, so I move away from friends and family often, and being able to travel around the country in a matter of hours on a whim would be awesome.

Also, I don't really care for IT any more (it's not what it used to be when I started in the field 10 years ago) and want to get in to a different field when I either get out or retire from the military, and I love flying, so I figured why not use a new hobby to start building my hours for a new career.

As an added bonus once I get my private ticket out of the way, the GI Bill will pay for all of my certifications afterwards.

Osterkraut wrote: There's a guy on GRM that owns a nice little plane, maybe it's a Cub? Let's see if he shows up!

Paging aeronca65t.......tell us about your plane.

ZOOMX5 wrote: This is a good forum to ask questions: http://pilotsofamerica.com

Good stuff, I've been wondering if there were any good aviation forums out here. Google wasn't much help in that regard.

Javelin wrote: I think you are drastically underestimating the costs of a plane. From what I've seen, things are an order of magnitude more expensive (so a $70 alternator for your car is $700 on a plane).

ditto. If you look back at this earlier thread on the subject:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/i-want-a-plane/33900/page1/
you will see:

Salinas/Beer Baron said: My dad often bugs me on why I don't fly any more. My standard response is: "It's too expensive. I need a cheap hobby, like racing Porsches."

I'm actually in a aeroclub right now, but the cheapest plane they rent is $95/hr wet and $55/hr dry, Depending on how much I end up flying that can add up fast, and end up surpassing the costs of owning. I figured if I did more than 8-10 hours a month owning would end up being cheaper.

What about an ultralight? In France everyone owns these super nice ultralights that look more like a small Cessna than the normal kite with a motor. Pretty high performance and the regulations/costs are significantly easier/cheaper. I'll see if I can find a picture of my uncle's.

Enyar wrote: What about an ultralight? In France everyone owns these super nice ultralights that look more like a small Cessna than the normal kite with a motor. Pretty high performance and the regulations/costs are significantly easier/cheaper. I'll see if I can find a picture of my uncle's.

I'm pretty sure that in the USA, those are considered to be Light Sport Aircraft, not ultralights. Our requirements are REALLY limiting

Enyar wrote: What about an ultralight? In France everyone owns these super nice ultralights that look more like a small Cessna than the normal kite with a motor. Pretty high performance and the regulations/costs are significantly easier/cheaper. I'll see if I can find a picture of my uncle's.

I've looked in to those, but their range and speed are fairly limited.

Their service ceilings can also be somewhat low, which isn't a big deal if you're at lower altitudes, but on a summer day in Colorado Springs it's pretty normal to see the density altitude over 10k ft.

JoeyM wrote: I'm pretty sure that in the USA, those are considered to be Light Sport Aircraft, not ultralights. Our requirements are REALLY limiting

This too.

Does it have to be certified? If not, you could look into the many kits available. It allows you to do the maintenance yourself (cheaper), get a non-certified engine (MUCH cheaper) and a lot of design have folding wings to save a little money on hangar fees.

I'd say go with a Cessna 150 or 152 as a time builder, or a 172 if you want/need a bit more space. Love or hate them, it's the cheapest way to go.

Everyone assumes that LSA'a are cheap, but they are not. The buy in on a used LSA is about twice what you'd pay for a used lower end 172, because of the demand with so many old fogies having disposable income, yet being unable to pass a medical.

As you know, buying a plane as all about the TBO on the engine. you don't want to buy a $30k aircraft, and then have to buy a $20k engine 100hrs later when the engine times out.

As far as grassroots, you need a non-complex aircraft, meaning a fixed prop and fixed gear. An annual on a complex single can easily be 2 to 3 times the price, not to mention all the A.D.s that are associated with constant speed props and retractable gear. Down here in Florida, you can buy a mostly decent VFR 152 with ok hours for anywhere from $15 to 22k, and add about 1$10k to that for a 172

On the subject of ultra lights, experimentals, etc, those are hobby fodder and will do you no good as a career builder. Employers want time logged in certified aircraft, ultra lights will do your resume no good.