Oy - explaining "The Code".

In reply to Mr_Asa :

You might be right.  

Sorry, but if you give it to me, it is mine. I'll do what I want with it. There are certain situations where this has shades of gray - my cousin got Grandpas boat, for instance, I'd be annoyed if he sold it without giving me or other cousins first stab at it, but my annoyance would last about the time it takes for the sentence to be over. His boat. 

At one point in my life, I was extremely attached to things. Now, there are things that I like and enjoy and make my life better, but they're still just things. berkeley em all. Sell them all. That is my current goal right now. Only exception to that is my guitars, but only because I feel they're living, breathing beings. 

Funny enough, we just got a gift "But you're not selling this, right"? 

My wife's aunt (MIL's sister) gave us my wife's grandma's (FIL's mother) sewing machine. To be clear, when my FIL moved his mother into a nursing home, my MIL's family helped and MIL's sister got the sewing machine - it was going to be thrown away. 

25 years later, everyone had forgotten about it except the Aunt who  had obviously been using it. It is an awesome looking vintage Singer. 

Well, no, we're not going to sell it... now. But in 5 years? Yeah, we might. Especially if it has never been used. We'll offer it up to family first, maybe, but only because there are 3-4 avid quilters in the family that may appreciate it. 

914Driver said:

Car guy code, you know, an unwritten rule.

As described in the The Code of Unwritten Rules: Car Enthusiast Edition, Chapter 23, section 7, under 'Free Exchanges'...

23.7.a: If the item is being given away free, it is to be assumed that it has a value of less than or equal to $0 to said person. Negative values often arise from the amount of time and/or effort required to restore or repair the item relative to its FMV.  Giving it away is simply the preferred alternative to throwing it away.

23.7.b: If right of first refusal is requested and agreed under the terms of the exchange, it shall be granted. If right of first refusal is not requested, the new owner may still offer right of first refusal anyway, but is under absolutely obligation to do so. Common factors that may affect this decision include, but are not limited to, the extent of history and nature of relationship between the exchanging parties and the extent of history the donator had with the item.

23.7.c: A portion of the profit may also granted to the original owner in consideration for their donation. Similar to 23.7.b, there is absolutely no obligation to do so unless otherwise agreed to prior to the exchange. Even if the item is immediately flipped for a profit with no work performed, this is still considered a simple gift or donation. Furthermore, the shared portion shall not exceed the lesser of either 1/2 the profit or the proportion of the profit that the donation's FMV contribution made toward the final sale price. It is recommended, but not required, that the profit be determined after factoring in a reasonable labor rate for all activities related to the purchase, repair/restoration, and sale of the item. Since few projects actually turn a profit after factoring in personal labor, a beverage or beverages set of choice (often referred to as a 'beer' or 'six pack') is probably the best known and most common form of sharing ones gratitude for a donation. Alternatively or additionally, one may choose to 'pay it forward' with a future enthusiast discount or donation.

I'm not wild about this because very rarely do anything I get for free where the "gifter" expects anything out of it. More often than not, they perceive the gift as worthless, and can't see why anyone would pay anything for it. 

I'm trying to convince my neighbor his 5-Speed 97 Accord is worth something, and he just can't wrap his head around that. He think it's worthless, and will probably sell it to me for a few hundred bucks. 

There are three kinds of people:

Those who don't care to know any use item markets.

Those who know the market.

Those who think a market exists for everything it's far stronger than it actually is.

One time I did something even remotely close was a karma thing not a code thing. It was when I picked up a late 90's Toyota Corolla from a local family for $250.  A single mom with a couple kids.  Husband died suddenly from a brain aneurysm about a year earlier.  She was a hard working person that was just barely getting by.  Her kids were friends with my kids. She said it would not start (it had been sitting a while) and had overheated.  A shop told her it would be a grand to fix it and they would "take it from her at no cost to her as it was not worth much".   My $250 was just so she could get her $$$ back for the tow to and from the repair shop.  It turned out it was a bad coil and the radiator had a small pin hole in it.   A new rad, belts, hoses and a coil later the car was fine.  I may have done a water pump and a thermostat as well but I don't remember exactly.  I had picked up the car on a Friday and it was fixed by the following Monday and since I had not even transferred the title I just drove it back to her place and gave her the car back (she still had the plates).  I saw that car around town for another 5 years and I was told it went to college with her oldest daughter.   

I did it because it needed to be done.  I got a big tin of home made cookies for Christmas that year and hand made cards from her kids thanking me.  This was almost 10 years ago.

This code you speak of is a very much so unwritten one, and apparently widely debated. I only have a handful of friends that I am on a close enough basis with that we would be giving each other something worth so much as a 45 year old boat. However, with those friends, I absolutely offer the opportunity to buy it back should I decide to sell. As for sharing profits? No. If I had to deal with the general public to sell said item, the money is mine. I have purchased a very nice bottle of scotch a time or two when making over $1000 on a project supplied from a friend but even then the return gift is never expected. Basically, offer it back and if they don't want it back, buy them a nice bottle of booze as a thank you.

Wow! So many ANGRY responses... I joined this group caus y'all seemed like better guys than those other forums... guess not

Lighten up, Frances.

As I said. Ive done things that way, and I've not done it. IT DEPENDS.

Y'all are right, in that I wouldn't call it a code. I also do not expect it of something I give away, just a way for me to "give back."

I've had a couple deals that were "if you ever decide you don't want it, just let me know first." A couple guitars sold to friends, and the motorbike I have now. That deal was $200, and I won't sell it, except back to the original owner. Dude is a good friend and very attached to things. He gave me a good deal, and right now I bet I could sell the bike for $1500 locally before the weekend. I could use the money. But I told him I wouldn't sell it.  Other than those agreements, no harm no foul. If it's an "inside deal" akin to challenge rules, and your only goal is to flip for a profit, I can see wanting to do something similar though. But definitely not every time I make a few bucks. 

If someone gives me something and I sell it with no improvements, I'll likely give them some of the profits. If I start spending my time and money on repairing or improving it before selling it, then the profits are mine.  

If I give something to someone, it's theirs. They can do with it as they wish, I expect no compensation. There was some motivating reason that I gave it away - in other words there is a value (for me) in it not being in my possession any more.  I don't expect further compensation when I drop a box of stuff off at goodwill. Same idea. My value is its absence.

If someone comes back and offers me part of their proceeds, I might take it or I might not. If it's a couple hundred bucks, I'm likely to say, hey, buy me a bottle of bourbon and call it even. If for some reason the item was discovered to be extremely valuable and they made several thousand off of it - I'm more likely to accept a kickback in real money but if they keep it all so be it. I should have done my research and sold it myself instead of giving it away. I failed to do the financially right thing, not them.

The only way its a code is if you've both agreed upon it. If I give someone something, without stipulations, and they are able to sell it for profit,  yeah I'll be pissed, but because I didn't take the initiative to sell it, not at them.

I don't think there's a need for some special code in such cases. It's more like, friendship and kindness, to give your friend such considerations. By extension, Jerry might refuse to take any of the profit, but feel a sense of gratitude that you offered.

03Panther said:

Wow! So many ANGRY responses... I joined this group caus y'all seemed like better guys than those other forums... guess not

Lighten up, Frances.

As I said. Ive done things that way, and I've not done it. IT DEPENDS.

Y'all are right, in that I wouldn't call it a code. I also do not expect it of something I give away, just a way for me to "give back."

Haven't noticed any anger here yet.  Seen some people suggesting it's stupid, but that's not anger.

914Driver said:

Car guy code, you know, an unwritten rule.  If you buy it outright, it's yours.  If someone gives you something (transmission, dead project etc.) you're obligated to give them first refusal if you sell it AND should give them half of the profit.  Without the free stuff, your profit would be zero.

My situation:  My friend Jerry gave me a 12 ft. fiberglass boat because his grandkids hate it.  Threw in the 4hp outboard too.  (1974 boat, 1975 motor).   I was going to jet ski it like Toyman did, but there;s another shiny thing on the horizon that turned my head.  I painted the hull, ordered parts for the engine and then it goes down the road.  Trish asked me what I'm going to do with the boat.  I explained The Code. 

My investment in this boat will be about $200.  I go back to Jerry and offer it back to him for the $200 I have in it.  If, say, I sell it for $1200, I get $200 + half of the $1000 profit, Jerry gets $500.

Then she goes all Capt. Barbosa on me:   "Is it a strict code or just guidelines?"

 

 

It's all fun and guidelines until Keith Richards brings out a big book of rules.

I never heard of the shared profit angle.  Not that I ever actually sell anything myself, but I figure if I give you something, it's yours to do whatever.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

I have given deep discounts to people here many times in the hope and expectation that the car would make a Challenge appearance. I've told them I was giving a special discount so they could bring it to the Challenge. 
 

I've never seen one of those cars make it to the Challenge. 
 

But I also have no regrets. I know that once sold, it's out of my hands. 

untrue. The MR2 even made a lap under its own power!

Partially true. 
 

Technically, you and I never completed the sale until AFTER the Challenge! 

But I'll give it to you. I DID see the MR2 make the Challenge (although I am the one who had to tow it there!!) haha!

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

HA!

Did I technically buy the car from you AFTER I sold it? I think that would be called a 'short sale' on wall street. 

When it comes to cars and car parts related transactions, the only code I've ever gone by is this one:

The details work themselves out usually. We're all in this together, might as well have fun with cars while we're at it.

I think it's entirely based on the situation.

Example A:  I have a friend with crippling anxiety.  She was pushed off the road in her Dakota and went into the bushes.  The only damage to the truck was a basketball sized dent in the driver's door.  She instantly could no longer be associated with the truck so she put it on CL for $2000.  (it was easily worth $6000).  She just wanted rid of it.  I bought it for $2000 (didn't need a truck, and not a fan of Dakotas), fixed the door for $200 with another matching junkyard door, and sold it for $6000.  I gave her $3500 of it.  That means she got a total of $5500 and I netted $300 for my skills.  This one was because I was helping a friend not lose her shirt on a poorly thought out decision due to her anxiety.  We both made out.  I didn't need to give her a penny, but that was my plan all along.

Example B: I was given a wood-strip canoe. (I don't mean spam... I mean an actual floating boat). It was after an auction I went to and some stuff that didn't sell the son was just giving away.  It was in so-so shape.  I cleaned it up as best as I could and did some research to see what they might sell for.  Turns out, it was an antique, and highly valuable.  People were paying up to $1000 for a well-weathered example like mine.  So I put it on ebay and got $850 for it after a ton of trouble.  In the meantime, someone in his family probably asked what happened to grandad's canoe because it was valuable, he started researching them, and found my ad for grandad's canoe.  He was livid.  He started clicking all the buttons to report my ad, sending me vile emails about how I stole it and he was going to call the police, blah blah.  In the end, I had to repost it about 5 times until they finally banned HIM when I reported his messages.  In that case, it was clearly a situation of "tough E36 M3, dude."  Neither of us knew it was valuable at the time, I didn't convince him to give it to me, he just made a poor decision.  Instead of licking his own wounds, he just tried to inflict wounds on me.

No two situations are alike.  Just do what is fair.

slefain said:

When it comes to cars and car parts related transactions, the only code I've ever gone by is this one:

The details work themselves out usually. We're all in this together, might as well have fun with cars while we're at it.

Good plan!

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

There are almost always at least two potential examples of your second story on every episode of Antiques Roadshow.

It wasn't your fault that they put that Rembrandt in the boot sale for $20.

Dear 914Driver,

I will ship you all my worthless E36 M3, to be fixed and/or restored. When you sell I would like half the profit deposited into a paypal account. Thank you

P.S. How does this work if I go to all my friends, and collect all their worthless E36 M3 they are willing to give away, and then ship that to you? Is it then a 33% split among the 3 of us, or do I still only get 50% to be split 50/50 amongst my friend and I?

This code stuff is complicated.

Wow, thanks?

Guess I'm a bigger chump than I thought.  I can't say I would apply the code with a stranger, but why would a stranger just give me something for free.

There are bullet wounds in my foot, but I sleep OK at night.

Good to heat your thoughts, I didn't hear any anger.

In reply to barefootskater :

That is fine as long as both parties agree to it as part of the sale.  However when it is assumed and nothing is said and later some one gets pissy about it is when I have a problem with it (more with the seller not the purchaser)

Guess I have a lower tolerance for What The berkeley are you talking about, or thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

There are better ways to tell someone you disagree. Oh well. Guess that its good I stay off social media alot

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I think it's entirely based on the situation.

Example A:  I have a friend with crippling anxiety.  She was pushed off the road in her Dakota and went into the bushes.  The only damage to the truck was a basketball sized dent in the driver's door.  She instantly could no longer be associated with the truck so she put it on CL for $2000.  (it was easily worth $6000).  She just wanted rid of it.  I bought it for $2000 (didn't need a truck, and not a fan of Dakotas), fixed the door for $200 with another matching junkyard door, and sold it for $6000.  I gave her $3500 of it.  That means she got a total of $5500 and I netted $300 for my skills.  This one was because I was helping a friend not lose her shirt on a poorly thought out decision due to her anxiety.  We both made out.  I didn't need to give her a penny, but that was my plan all along.

Example B: I was given a wood-strip canoe. (I don't mean spam... I mean an actual floating boat). It was after an auction I went to and some stuff that didn't sell the son was just giving away.  It was in so-so shape.  I cleaned it up as best as I could and did some research to see what they might sell for.  Turns out, it was an antique, and highly valuable.  People were paying up to $1000 for a well-weathered example like mine.  So I put it on ebay and got $850 for it after a ton of trouble.  In the meantime, someone in his family probably asked what happened to grandad's canoe because it was valuable, he started researching them, and found my ad for grandad's canoe.  He was livid.  He started clicking all the buttons to report my ad, sending me vile emails about how I stole it and he was going to call the police, blah blah.  In the end, I had to repost it about 5 times until they finally banned HIM when I reported his messages.  In that case, it was clearly a situation of "tough E36 M3, dude."  Neither of us knew it was valuable at the time, I didn't convince him to give it to me, he just made a poor decision.  Instead of licking his own wounds, he just tried to inflict wounds on me.

No two situations are alike.  Just do what is fair.

That is karma at its best. In both situations.