Painted tongue and groove ceiling - MDF or pine?

We're going with a white painted tongue and groove ceiling in the kitchen (12'x12'). After digging through the pile of whitewood at HD (seen here :http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-6-in-x-12-ft-Premium-Tongue-and-Groove-Pattern-Whitewood-Board-418817/100062545 ). I only found about 15 that were straight/not a crazy amount of knots. I bought those with the intention of going to another store to find the other 15-20 I will need and then saw they offer a MDF product. The MDF product is the exact same size (1x12x6), primed and ready to go. Since I'm going to be painting this white the MDF is sounding really good to me. Taking care of the knots in the whitewood is what's making me lean towards MDF but I worry about the MDF sagging in the kitchen ceiling over time.

The other option would be southern yellow pine.

What do you think?

MDF plus a few extra nails.

No construction experience but that would be the way I would go.

MDF and look into how to best seal it up. My only issue with MDF would be how it reacts [badly] to moisture.

You could also try Azek... should be more resistant to humidity. Dunno about your opinion of synthetic stuff, though.

MDF paints much better. It also warps if it's trying to span.

You didn't say if you are going directly on the framing or if there is backer. You should install drywall first, and install the beadboard over it. Otherwise, you will have a lot of drafts and air infiltration, dust, etc. Beadboard applied directly to the framing will not meet modern energy efficiency requirements.

Drywall will make a good backer behind the MDF to avoid the warpage as well.

This applies to my interest as well--would like to put painted headboard on my bathroom ceiling. By "install over the drywall," how would you install? Nail only, or nail and glue?

Margie

In reply to Marjorie Suddard:

I would nail it with long nails shooting for the studs, and add some glue to glue it to the drywall between the studs.

It doesn't do any good to nail to drywall.

Note for bathroom: Use MR board (moisture resistant- green board)

...BTW, although everyone hates it, a good job would include taping the joints of the drywall for draft sealing before installing the beadboard.

We put up MDF in the ex's house living/dining room/kitchen (open floor plan) as well as in the second floor master bedroom suite. 16' lengths and tongue & groove. For better or worse, it was attached directly to the joists without sheet-rock, installed essentially like flooring. Doesn't seem to have any warping issues with 16" OC joists. Didn't really think about the air-sealing, but the tongue and grooves are pretty tight.

In reply to Ian F:

They won't pass a blower door test.

Old houses with T&G ceilings have huge volumes of dirt that passes through the T&G joints.

Excellent news. At first I liked the idea of seeing the wood grain through the paint but I think I like the idea of easy painting/not having to worry about knots bleeding through.

I've already hung drywall/taped. The T&G will also run perpendicular to the ceiling trusses.

It will be attached via liquid nails/ nails from my nailgun.

I put actual pine in the Grosh because I wanted it to look like painted wood, and it does. Knots and imperfections and all. Unless you want that specifically, then MDF.

In reply to SVreX:

The two dozen holes in the ceiling for the recessed cans and HV diffusers would prevent it from passing any sort of infiltration tests...

The house was built in 1890 with various bits added on since. A tight ceiling finish is the least of the concerns.

Plus, it's MDF, not old T&G wood. It was a bitch and a half getting the joints tight. After painting, the joints are invisible.

Also, she bought fairly heavy panels - about 1/2" thick. The entire ceiling for both floors was well over $3000.

Personally, I did think we should have rocked under the ceiling, but she told me I was an idiot, so we didn't. There are reasons we're not together anymore (and the second floor still isn't finished 4+ years later).

In reply to Ian F:

So, you think a tight ceiling is the least of the concerns, but you think you should have rocked under the ceiling.

OK, we agree. ;-)

In reply to SVreX:

Somewhat. The back half the house was rebuilt using newer construction techniques and with wrapping on most of it. The front half is still essentially original and is sealed about as well as a colander. The decision was made the extra sealing a drywall under-layment would have provided wasn't worth the added expense.

Not my house. There are a number of things I would have done differently (especially with hindsight), but those decisions weren't mine to make. I was just cheap labor. The only decisions I had 100% control over were electrical, since that's what I do. She is a mechanical engineer.

Personally, I think the biggest mistake made was finishing the downstairs before the second floor bedroom, bathroom and laundry room. Now if there are any problems with the second floor plumbing, it will be a royal mess - and expensive.

Will a 2" brad nailer be enough for this? I've never used it...someone gave it to me and this will be my first project with it.

In reply to Enyar:

Probably. You might need to face nail instead of angle nailing the tongues (typical). Face nailing won't look as good.

Also, brad heads (and shanks) are smaller than finish nails, so they may want to pull through.

Try a couple and see if they feel strong. With a little extra construction adhesive, you should be OK.

In your case the adhesive will be stronger than the nails. You just need them to hold it it place while it cures.

Enyar wrote: Will a 2" brad nailer be enough for this? I've never used it...someone gave it to me and this will be my first project with it.

That's what I used. Hasn't fallen down... ...yet.

In reality, at 16" on center, the holding power of a 2" brad is more than sufficient for the fairly light panels. I shot them at an angle through the tongue similar to flooring.

It does take some practice getting the angle just right. Too shallow and the nail can deflect. Too steep and you don't get the body of the panel which interferes with the next panel groove. I had a few "aww, berk!" moments and had to pull out or cut a badly aimed brad.

You do have to face-nail the starting panels at the wall, but in most cases, those holes will be covered by trim, so not a big deal. Because the boards lengths weren't long enough, I had to scarf the joints, but it sounds like you won't have that problem.

In reply to Ian F:

Don't forget he's got drywall. You didn't.

1/2" drywall plus 1/2" thickness to the top of the tongue leaves 1" total thickness. At a 45* angle, there is barely any penetration.

2 1/2" is probably a better length, but the 2" will suffice with enough glue.

I'd do MDF if you're painting it. Is the mdf pre painted or primed?

Asking since it's for a kitchen. (Not near as big of a concern as a bathroom) .. But moisture is a minor concern. Recommend prime all sides, even the cut ends.

In reply to SVreX:

Right - with drywall a 2.5" would be safer.

With drywall underneath, he probably doesn't need 1/2" thick paneling. When she ordered the panels (she actually went to a professional showroom for this stuff, not the local Lowes-Depot), there were 3/8" thick options as well that were lighter and cheaper. However, none had the bead-board pattern she wanted.

All this said, I felt like I was installing ceiling boards for weeks (after work). Not sure I ever want to do that again. It looks nice enough now that it's done, but holy berk it was a lot of work. Most of it done solo, naturally...

Well we made a home depot run last night. Turns out the stuff I saw wasn't MDF, it's a primed radiata pine. Not sure how I missed that but oh well. We ended up buying it anyway because the price premium more than made up for the pain of dealing with all the knots/bends in the white wood.

It's already primed and I'm debating if it needs another coat of primer or not. What do you guys think? I've attached a link to the boards we bought as well as the paint (acrylic latex) we bought.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Selex-1-in-x-6-in-x-144-in-Radiata-Pine-Primed-Finger-Joint-Edge-and-Center-Bead-Panel-ECB1612/206643812

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/superpaint_interior_acrylic_latex/

Generic question for Paul about air infiltration and backers...could you use some kind of house wrap type barrier layer instead of rock? I have no idea if that's a good or bad plan, codes, or whatever. Just curious. 
 

It's so humid where we are that I would be concerned about mdf on a ceiling in a bathroom, maybe the kitchen too. But I tend to be over cautious. 

If you are going for a "beadboard look", there are many different species of wood/lumber that you can buy already routed with a profile and have the T&G in them. We did our foyer entryway with poplar and then stained it(long story as poplar doesn't stain well) and our bathroom in pine and sealed/painted it white. With the moisture in our bathroom even running a large radon fan as our exhaust fan, I would not trust MDF.