Pair of Europas(in pieces) for $6k?

http://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/cto/2913991926.html

I spoke to him briefly. Both cars are all there. Yellow one was running fine 4-years ago when he parked it. Said he'd go below $6k for the pair. I'm not sure I'm interested, but is it even a good deal?

I don't think it is a good.

I've heard of "ran when parked" but this is the first "ran when last assembled"

Considering I've seen (single) running and driving Europas sell for less that $6000, no - a pair of non-running cars doesn't look like a good deal to me.

That looks like the sort of thing people will give you for free if they see you already have a running Europa.

Looks like a whole lotta mysery to me.

It's been my experience that "2 Europas, in pieces", generally means "1.5 Europas, in pieces." If you're lucky the two cars won't be missing the same pieces.

Wow, you know it's bad when a bunch of enablers like you guys are even talking me out of it!

petegossett wrote: Wow, you know it's bad when a bunch of enablers like you guys are even talking me out of it!

Just wait - Dr Hess hasn't seen this thread yet. He usually has some amusing pearls of wisdom when it comes to ads like this. He may even have second-hand knowledge of the cars in question. I believe he would call these "natural state" Europas.

It's amazing that two of the same cars are 40 years old and only have a little over 50,000 miles.

I badly want a Europa.. to many projects right now...otherwise would make lowball offer..

spitfirebill wrote: It's amazing that two of the same cars are 40 years old and only have a little over 50,000 miles.

Hmm... high mileage Europas...

Yes, "Free Range Europas." As they are found in the wild. I think six large is a bit much. But, the spare frame is worth something. And rebuilding a TC motor ain't cheap these days. Rebuilding two, well...

Two for Four would be a fair price, I think. Two for Five would be a maybe, depending on how recent those pics are. Like, "here's a pic I took 20 years ago..." versus "Here's what they look like today..." What are the interiors like? And as he has the blue one up in the air on a fork lift, well, that can cause "issues" as well. I'm fixing fork lift by PO issues now on Dr.Linda's S2.

I talked to him, he described the interiors as "used" - with a bit of somberness to his voice. I asked about the forklift, he said that's a dolly he built for it.

He sounded pretty knowledgable and intelligent. Said he drove the yellow one regularly up until several years ago when the frame broke. He bought the black car for parts, but it was too nice and bought the spare frame.

Said he's leaving town for a week, so I'll try to see them then. If they're as bad as I expect, I'm thinking $2500(he offered that he's realistic about listening to offers).

Those are high mileage Europas. Don't you get a special badge for getting over 50k, sorta like Volvo gives out for topping 500,000 miles?

These may be a bit overpriced, but they are prolly a good bit cheaper than 2 free Europas.

I saw tippecanoe in the link and somehow had it confused with Ticonderoga in my head so I was surprised to see Indiana and not New York. I guess I should go get some sleep. Someone please tell Tyler.

So, now that my curiosity is piqued about these things, what's the story on performance possibilities for the twin-cam engine?

IIRC the TC motor is a Cosworth head on a Ford Kent 1.6 bottom end, right? A lot like what came in the Seven? And the transaxles are some sort of Renault piece.

You can get as much performance as you can afford. 140 isn't too hard to do with cams and porting. After that, it starts to get real expensive. Remember that this is a motor that dates back to the mid 60's. The intake is cast into the head, so changing carbs from the Strombergs to something else, like DCOE's is practically out. Megasquirting is possible and would be the way to go.

Dr. Hess wrote: You can get as much performance as you can afford.

How mush for 1?

One what?

One Horshpowa!?!

Fo a dollah you get to open the boot and look at the motor.

Ok, well I finally got to look at them today and meet the seller. He's a very nice and seemingly legit guy.

He's owned the yellow car for 25-years, last had it on the road in '83(when the frame broke), and started it occasionally every year, up to 5 or 6 years ago. The good news on it: All lights are intact and good condition, the car is completely assembled except for the interior, and the fact that the body is completely unbolted from(yet somehow still attached to)the frame. The bad: still has gas in both tanks, broken fiberglass on the lower fascia and general gel-coat cracking everywhere else, cracked windshield. I didn't get to see the seats, but did see the solid wood dash the seller had made to replace the original.

The black car is on a wood dolly, and the underneath looks OK. There was a rip/split on the passenger's seat, but the driver's seat looked fine(hard to tell under all the dirt though). The face of the dash looks wavy, but is still intact. Condition of the body is similar to the yellow car, and all lights are also in good shape on this one. The windshield is cracked on this one too, but he removed it in one piece(somehow). He has the head off the engine, the stuck piston removed, and a new ring & gasket set for it.

The spare frame belonged to a racer from Michigan. It's been stitch-welded along the backbone and appears solid, though it's bare steel and has surface rust.

He also kept pointing up to the attic of his garage where more parts were kept, though we did no go up for an inventory.

He did provide me with a link to a few more pictures here

At one point he hinted that $3k may buy both, but later said his wife was holding him to $4k. I think that's a bit much, given what I saw, and the fact that this car on eBay only brought $9100.

So Dr. Hess - and anyone else that's following along - am I foolish for pursuing this any further?

I think you would be foolish NOT to try to get them!

You're asking the wrong doode, Pete. Of course you need those 2. As I said, 2 for Four Large would not be too bad. Two for Three would be better, of course, but 2 for Four is not out of sight.

If you don't want them, post here and I'll point Teh Guyz on Teh Europa list over this way. Someone will scarf them up at 4.

Oh, and Dr. Hess, about what would it cost to build a TC to 140hp?

Well, I built one to about 140 HP in the mid 80's for under a thousand, including a complete rebuild. I never dyno'ed it, but that's fairly close according to teh bookz, etc., at what it should have been. Isky cams, flowed head, balanced, bigger than big valves, etc. Dunno what it would cost today, but inflation has $1 in 1985 at about $3 today. That motor had a Weber head with 40DCOEs. Stromberg heads are said to be able to produce as much HP as a Weber head, but don't look as sexy, and also #3 is said to run lean on those. Megasquirting is the way to go with some injector bungs welded to the runners.

BTW, a frame swap ain't that big of a deal. About 10 bolts and a few screws, including the screw that holds the fuse panel on (it goes into the frame) and the body comes off. It's all very well documented.