People and car payments

z31maniac wrote: Oh god, this thread again?

My way is better than your way!

z31maniac wrote: Oh god, this thread again?

Tom_Spangler wrote: Debt is merely a tool. And like any tool, it can be misused. I certainly did enough of that in my younger days. But I kinda knew how this thread was going to go as soon as I saw the title.

Me too. Money and debt are both tools created by human beings. Like the cars people aquire with money and debt, there are many important details about how they work that really are not understood by large segments of the population. This leads to beliefs which may or may not be based in fact.

You don't have to go far on this board to find discussions of peoples' sometimes comical beliefs about cars. ("I don't have to change the oil, I have a warrentee") You can also find plenty of arguments when differing car beliefs colide. (Look-up discussions that involve the Prius or SUV's). Money has been around a lot longer than cars and has many more beliefs attached to it.

There really isn't any difference between $300/mo and $20k all at once except a few % daily rate - but if you blow that nut all at once on something - you left yourself without $19700 in emergency money for when the Elise you really wanted pops onto the market. Or... maybe you aren't very liquid and a new Escort isn't motivation to pull money out of the market to bring home. There are lots of reasons to leverage someone else's money. Plenty not to too.

Hop off the soapboxes, ya?

wbjones wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote:

Anti-stance wrote: Oh, and these kinda people I am talking about are the same kinda people that rag on me for driving a 95 Camry and bringing my lunch to work everyday instead of having a car loan and eating at Burger King everyday.

Wow. Eating at BK everyday? Well, that certainly is the epitome of big spendin' and classy eatin'!

I think the reference was to the $$$$$$ spent each week vs the ¢¢¢¢¢ spent bringing his lunch from home

BK at ~$6 per day x 5 days = $30/week x 52 weeks = $1560.00 a year.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can spend their money any way they see fit. Need a fancy car for your job? By all means go for it. I recommend for your own protection do the math beforehand. As in: if you 'need' a $60,000 car to do a job which pays $35,000 a year you might want to do some soul searching.

If I am to not concern myself with someone spending themselves into oblivion so they can drive some fancy car then I expect them not to concern themselves with me driving a 16 year old SUV that does not make the Joneses go HHHHHNNNNGGGG. 'Cuz I do not give a tin shi+ that the Joneses think.

SCARRMRCC wrote:

nocones wrote: I think I'm going to start looking down on people who have mortgages. I can't believe you people rent your house from your bank. I have a car payment on my 2013 WRX. My wifes 2012 outback is owned outright as is our home. But according to GRM logic I am a moron with money as I have a car payment. You don't know everyone's story. Just because a new car/payment doesn't make sense to you doesn't make you better than they are for deciding to buy a new car.

That is not the same in any way at all. people that have mortgages are like people getting a car loan. people renting are like people that LEASE a car, NOT like people that buy old cars... A housing correlation would people buying BRAND NEW houses, or 5-10 year old houses. And it REALLY does equate. at one point I had bought a house about 35 miles from work. people asked why I bought that old, small house, so far from work. THEY were paying HUGE monthly payments on their 400k houses (equivalent to a new car), and could afford it.. pretty much. I didn't have that kind of money, so I was paying for a 35K house (equivalent to a cheap used car). Others yet, decided to rent in the city I worked in (equivalent to a lease). And I guess the last group would be those that do not rent, did not buy new, or a smaller older, and farther away house: the people that live in a hotel (that would be the equivalent to renting from enterprise).

Leasing isn't necessarily a bad idea either. These days you're often not paying much more than depreciation.

In the housing market these days, if you can have a roommate, renting is often a better deal as well. Houses don't build the equity they used to. Now, this is again different if you own a house and rent out a room, or if you're married, or if you have a family... but for me, at 23 with a good job, it makes more sense to rent than to buy.

Keith Tanner wrote: A pretty high proportion of us here are mechanically inclined. If you're not, the cost of running a 20-year-old Toyota goes up dramatically. A friend of mine loves cars but doesn't have the place, ability or tools to work on them - so everything has to be done by a professional mechanic. And that gets expensive surprisingly quickly, especially if you have the sort of job (like he does) that requires five nines of automotive uptime. Even a check engine light is a hassle, whereas for me its a quick check with a scanner. So he tends to drive newer cars, the payment is a better way for him to spend his money than repairs. Rarely NEW cars, but there is financing involved. On my new truck, there wasn't much to save by buying used as the resale value on diesel Dodges is VERY strong and my wife's work gets us a wicked fleet discount. We either could have bought new or used for about the same price - and this way we got 50,000 miles of use for free We're planning on keeping it for the lifetime of the truck. As I mentioned earlier, the financing costs were so low that it didn't make sense to pay cash. So yeah, we have a payment on that thing. And when it's paid off, I'll continue to take care of it. As for building credit - that's easy. Get a credit card, use it, pay it off when the bill comes. Costs you nothing. I went from having no credit history when I moved to the US to being able to finance a house at a low rate in two years. There's a lot of very unattractive posturing in this thread.

+1,000

As a friend that's a credit counselor says, if you don't have much money, you need a new or newer car, especially if you don't have the ability to fix it. Nothing will get you poorer if you have to pay someone to do a bunch of repairs. On this board, it's a bit different as most of us do our own work, but in the real world, that's not usually the case. With that said, if you are in this situation, you have to be careful not to upmarket too much, or get in deep with a German car for example.

It's these terrible broad generalizations that try to denigrate one segment of society so the other can look down on them.

I have a monster car payment by GRM standards, but also no cable TV, take my lunch to work, etc.

z31maniac wrote: It's these terrible broad generalizations that try to denigrate one segment of society so the other can look down on them. I have a monster car payment by GRM standards, but also no cable TV, take my lunch to work, etc.

Didn't you also buy your house from a foreclosure for 1/4 of what it is worth?

z31maniac wrote: It's these terrible broad generalizations that try to denigrate one segment of society so the other can look down on them. I have a monster car payment by GRM standards, but also no cable TV, take my lunch to work, etc.

We were at $560/month until last month.

It was worth the total interest money of like... $1500 over the life of both loans to have the cars now vs in 3 years.

Well... it was certainly worth it in the case of the Jeep, at least.

mtn wrote:

z31maniac wrote: It's these terrible broad generalizations that try to denigrate one segment of society so the other can look down on them. I have a monster car payment by GRM standards, but also no cable TV, take my lunch to work, etc.

Didn't you also buy your house from a foreclosure for 1/4 of what it is worth?

No we bought a "lightly" remodeled home, we just bought WELL within our means. As in our house cost ~35-40% less than our combined yearly gross.

I had a payment on the C30 (my DD), but that was from my home equity line of credit so the interest was tax deductible, it was paid off early (compared to the theoretical 4 year car loan I would have got).

These day’s I don't count myself as having a car payment, although technically I do. I get a 'company car' which is really a heavily subsidized lease with unlimited miles, included insurance, no service costs no nothing. Just put gas in the tank and drive, worst case is a $250 insurance deductible. My wife gets my company car as the family hauler (It's a Mustang remember, an SUV heavy on the 'S' part ) and as the hauler we put between 25 and 40k miles on a year. The previous cars we had before I started taking advantage of that were completely destroyed in less than 4 years each (don't ever talk to me about Turdbota 'quality') I ran the numbers and taking into account insurance, depreciation, repairs, service etc the lease costs me less than 1/2 what it would cost to own a car (over a 4 year time line of ownership Vs. 4 new cars). The fact I get a new car every year is just a bonus. Given the fact that I don't want to work on a DD, I'll keep my precious little wrenching time for my toy, the 'lease' costs me less than insurance, service, repairs and tires would on a paid for reasonable new-ish car even at a $0 buy in. For me I come out ahead. I might be an a minority here, but for my family air bags, traction control, ABS, climate control, heated seats etc etc are nonnegotiable meaning I'm not going to have me/them driving a 20 year old car of any description.

z31maniac wrote: No we bought a "lightly" remodeled home, we just bought WELL within our means. As in our house cost ~35-40% less than our combined yearly gross.

Do you mean the house is 35-40% of your gross or do you mean it's 60-65% of you gross? I assume you mean the former, but it reads like the latter.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

z31maniac wrote: No we bought a "lightly" remodeled home, we just bought WELL within our means. As in our house cost ~35-40% less than our combined yearly gross.

Do you mean the house is 35-40% of your gross or do you mean it's 60-65% of you gross? I assume you mean the former, but it reads like the latter.

Our house cost 60-65% of what we currently gross per year.

For example, say we bought a $1 million house, but make $1.4 million per year. Although we don't clear anything like that kind of money.

z31maniac wrote: Oh god, this thread again?

Seriously. Jesus berkeleying christ.

In reply to z31maniac:

how can live on less than 1.5 million a year? do you have to finance your BMW every 2 years? or do you have to drive a shudder car that is shudder not the current model?

z31maniac wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

z31maniac wrote: No we bought a "lightly" remodeled home, we just bought WELL within our means. As in our house cost ~35-40% less than our combined yearly gross.

Do you mean the house is 35-40% of your gross or do you mean it's 60-65% of you gross? I assume you mean the former, but it reads like the latter.

Our house cost 60-65% of what we currently gross per year. For example, say we bought a $1 million house, but make $1.4 million per year. Although we don't clear anything like that kind of money.

Ahh, got ya, I thought you meant your mortgage was 60%, that scared me.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Ahh, got ya, I thought you meant your mortgage was 60%, that scared me.

Cripes no! Although the wife and I were staggered what they approved us for.

Part of the reason we stayed so cheap (aside from liking to blow money on cars, good food, booze, vacations)............was so that if something happened to either of our incomes, we wouldn't get to continue our "flashy" lifestyle, but we wouldn't lose our house, have the heat turned off, etc.

My car payment is bigger than my half of the mortgage payment.

z31maniac wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Ahh, got ya, I thought you meant your mortgage was 60%, that scared me.

Cripes no! Although the wife and I were staggered what they approved us for. Part of the reason we stayed so cheap (aside from liking to blow money on cars, good food, booze, vacations)............was so that if something happened to either of our incomes, we wouldn't get to continue our "flashy" lifestyle, but we wouldn't lose our house, have the heat turned off, etc. My car payment is bigger than my half of the mortgage payment.

I'm with yeah, I think most people I work with would be shocked if they knew what a small % of the family gross budget goes to the Mortgage, but we send the kids to private school, go on 2-3 one week vacation per year plus numerous weekend trips and like to eat well. No cable, I don't have a smart phone etc etc

God. I've had over 120 cars in the last 35 years. Most of them cheap beaters paid for with cash but some of them new that were financed and now we have one that is leased (so my wife can have a nice, new car that I don't have to maintain or repair and she can get to work reliable AND still have fun. Hello MINI.

I financed my BMW and paid it off early I've financed my Mustang and will pay it off early as well. I find that my budget seriously doesn't care if I save up 300-400 a month for 5 years and then buy a car or if I make 300 a month payments and have the car NOW. I still make my mortgage payments, still put aside money for retirement, still have vacations and trips and still have smartphones and computers and toys.

To be honest, this "I'm cheaper than you are and spend less money than you do" competition is as bad as the "I spend more than you do" comeptition. It's the flip side of the same love of money coin, and can be just as ugly in it's judgemental posturing.

Chris_V wrote: To be honest, this "I'm cheaper than you are and spend less money than you do" competition is as bad as the "I spend more than you do" comeptition. It's the flip side of the same love of money coin, and can be just as ugly in it's judgemental posturing.

That's actually a really interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way, and honestly I think you're right. I'm in the "I spend way less than I can" camp and have to keep your point in mind when bragging about it. :-)

I really hope you guys have read my posts and realize I am not saying having a car payment is bad and I am not bragging about being cheaper than others.

I was just pointing out the mentality that some people can't imagine not having a car payment. That seems weird to me.

I wasn't trying to turn it into a pick a side kinda deal. Apologies all around if you took offense to it.

Insert racial/sexual slur

This thread was as useful as a political thread.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: There really isn't any difference between $300/mo and $20k all at once except a few % daily rate - but if you blow that nut all at once on something - you left yourself without $19700 in emergency money for when the Elise you really wanted pops onto the market. Or... maybe you aren't very liquid and a new Escort isn't motivation to pull money out of the market to bring home. There are lots of reasons to leverage someone else's money. Plenty not to too. Hop off the soapboxes, ya?

Or when someone offers up a 964. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.