Poor kid that died at Indy

So this story has been a hot topic the last 2 days. I do feel bad for both families of this tragedy. I don't know what i would do if i were 12 and accidentally hit a fellow rider that eventually lead to his death as well as being the father of a talented son who just lost his life. He died doing what he loved best: RACING.

What is getting on my nerves now is these talk shows and radio programs now saying are kids getting too young to race? Are we asking too much out of the kids? Are we pressuring the kids? The answer is NO. These kids are very talented and are doing for a reason, they love the sport! I can tell you, these 13 year old kids can run circles around me if i were racing at Indy last weekend. Just hearing some of the stupid, ignorant comments people are making are driving me up the wall! These people have no idea what racing is. There is an inherited danger to racing and all these kids accept this danger. Hell, we all accept this when we go to the track. I mean, this kid Peter Lenz, had received the honor of being the youngest rider to be considered a professional. He was also a 9 time regional and national champion! At the age of 13! So, he was not some kid that had no talent out there that crash and was killed, he had more experience riding motorcycles than the majority of riders riding on the streets today!

What happened was an accident, plain and simple. It happens in racing. Kids are never too young to race. If my daughter says "Dad, i wanna race," i will start saving and will put her in a kart. Please don't regulate our sport when you don't know anything about it.

It was a truly unfortunate accident, but should also serve as a warning to parents. No matter how talented a young rider/driver is, kids do not grasp the fact that racing involves inherent, potentially permanent risks, adults should. It serves as sad reminder to racing parents to keep things in perspective.

I could have pushed my kids to sky-dive, or race, or any number of things, but I have the primary responsibilty of protecting them.I allowed them to be around while I was still racing, but they'll have to wait until they're self supporting adults to try anything dangerous on their own.My heart goes out to the parents of both these young fellows.

I think letting a kid that age track a motorcycle is insane. A child is not capable of properly assessing risk and consequence. His parents failed him.

That being said, I am not opposed to kids being involved in motorsports. Kids can hone their skills in motorsports without serious risk to their lives. The parents just need to choose wisely and protect their children.

I agree with Mr Skunk. I don't buy the argument/statement/placation that "He died doing what he loved best, racing." That's just dumb. He's dead because of a hobby, not because he was being a hero. I'll grant you its better than dying while working, but still, it's not like he was doing anything other than a berkeleying around on motorcycles.

I feel the same way about adult guys/gals that lose their life while auto racing when they leave a wife or child behind. They're taking selfish risks.

Per (who doesn't road race or rally any more for a very specific reason.)

That's why my kids don't race.

I race, and know how safe it is, but also how dangerous it can be. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if something happened to my kids, and I was responsible.

It's also not as if we've suddenly started kids racing, it's been going on since at least the 50's. When I was a kid I had a friend who raced Midgets and I was very jealous.

At the same time, our kids can die after getting hit by a car, or by riding a bicycle down a crazy hill, or being bit by a snake or spider in the back yard.

Heck they can even die in the cars we're driving when we do something stupid or another driver runs a red light.

Does that mean we'll keep the from doing all of those things? No. Because we want our children to live the happiest, fullest lives they can.

This is hard. I'm open to the idea of kids being exposed to risks most parents would balk at. I used guns unsupervised from about age 10-12, rode around in my dad's old rust bucket Fiats, carried knives, played with fire, climbed a lot of ladders, etc. I think young kids who are gradually introduced to real risk wind up appreciating it more as adults and are a lot less likely to do stupid stuff as high school and college students.

I don't blame these parents and I can't imagine what they're going through. The kid died on a warm up lap. Not to say he couldn't have had this happen under a green flag, but it wasn't so different from the sort of accident that could happen riding a bicycle. We don't blame every parent with a kid that dies on a bike, do we?

On the other hand...racing motorcycles? A 13 year old just doesn't have the sense of self preservation an adult does. They can't imagine what it'd be like to be crippled or spend months in rehab or to die. Since racing bikes rewards people for being bold and walking that like between injury and winning, I dunno know how you do it safely.

I am just saying, it could happen to anyone. All because you have talent doesn't mean you wont have an accident. Remember when Michael Shumacher went off on the warm up lap at Silverstone and broke his leg? Hes still considered the best driver in the world. Also, Joey Dunlop. Isle of Man TT Champion for how many years? How did he end up going? During a race. It could happen to anyone. Unfortunately, it happened to a 13 year old.

It could happen taking your kids to school, too, I guess. I'd be really interested in knowing how often this happens. Every year your odds of dying in a car accident on the street are around 1/750, and those deaths are often just as preventable.

Kid had no business running that fast. I don't care how much experience he had or what class he was in. Add to that the track is pretty challenging due to the bumps. At the wise age of 13 no child has the life experience to run that kind of speeds in anything. I file this under the same place as idiot parents who let their kids try for "youngest ever" records (sailing, mountain climbing, etc). Who cares if it is "what they love" if they die doing it.

Per Schroeder wrote: I agree with Mr Skunk. I don't buy the argument/statement/placation that "He died doing what he loved best, racing." That's just dumb. He's dead because of a hobby, not because he was being a hero. I'll grant you its better than dying while working, but still, it's not like he was doing anything other than a berkeleying around on motorcycles. I feel the same way about adult guys/gals that lose their life while auto racing when they leave a wife or child behind. They're taking selfish risks. Per (who doesn't road race or rally any more for a very specific reason.)

I know how the temptation of the new parent to keep them safe and not risk yourself in process works... I sold off my favorite motorcycle and stopped racing for almost a decade but looking back... it was not well thought out. I feel obligated not only to make my kids safe but to instill in them the sense of adventure that lets a person truly enjoy life. Is it not a bit selfish to protect them from things that have brought you so much enjoyment? There is risk in everything - but teaching your kids to swim, shoot, bicycle or rock climb... requires teaching them about safety first. Racing does too. I want my kids to embrace the joy of doing all of these things, as safely as possible, but not to the point of giving it up for the sake of it. I try to teach it by example. We wear seatbelts, swim/kayak with the buddy system... we don't take the outside of the 1st turn in a kart race ;)

If you broke down the numbers by percentage of participation - I bet motorcycle racing is far behind swimming or bicycling in fatatilty.

Yes, it was an accident, and no, we shouldn't try to protect our children from all hazards at all costs. But competitive powersports racing is not appropriate for a 13-year old, IMO. Sure the kid was good, and sure he loved what he was doing, but I don't think a child can properly assess the risks associated with motorcycle racing, and his parents dropped the ball, so to speak. Nevertheless, they have my sympathy.

Do I think 13 year olds possess the wherewithall to mitigate the risks associated with most powersports...no...but am I prepared to make that decision for the 13 year olds' parents...no...

I'll just sympathize for their loss and move on.

I suspect there are precious few top tier competitive drivers/riders who got started racing when they reached adulthood. Maybe it's an adventure or what the kids wanted or family business. My wife grew up on montessa trials bikes - her dad owned a bike shop. Her brother raced motocross. While I don't think parents should act like pagent moms pushing a life on a kid - but if there's a world-class talent shouldn't they support it? The big question is how do you know if your kid is it or has that potential?

oldtin wrote: I suspect there are precious few top tier competitive drivers/riders who got started racing when they reached adulthood. Maybe it's an adventure or what the kids wanted or family business. My wife grew up on montessa trials bikes - her dad owned a bike shop. Her brother raced motocross. While I don't think parents should act like pagent moms pushing a life on a kid - but if there's a world-class talent shouldn't they support it? The big question is how do you know if your kid is it or has that potential?

I really don't think it matters whether they are ever "top tier". So many things I've done in my life, racing/driving included, I would be considered a "mid-pack for life" talent. I truly enjoy it and that is all that matters to me. I love riding motorcycles. I like to fabricate things that require using dangerous machinery. If my kids show me they want to try something, I support it to the extent that I can. I am not so quick to be supportive of things that I am not well versed in the risks of... I would have to learn a lot about hang-gliding or scuba before letting my kids run with it but I'm willing to entertain almost anything. My own mother banned football but allowed me to run a 30" chainsaw to cut firewood. Its all what you know and are comfortable with. If his father was Kevin Schwanz - why would he even think twice about motorcycle racing? If he was most dads in the US... football seems fine.

I am not going to sit in judgment of these parents. They have my condolences and will undoubtedly do their own self-loathing. It is as unfortunate an accident as a 10yr old boy who dies or is paralyzed for life from a compression of the spine injury playing football or an 11yr old pitcher who's heart stops from a line drive to the chest. Probably rarer in occurrence though. It is certainly not the criminal negligence one could infer from watching the news.

I don't know what the answer is. Kids are getting started in motorsports at earlier and earlier ages, whether it's karts or motorcycles or whatever - look at any of the top drivers or riders these days, and it's a safe bet they were competing in something before they were ten years old. I suppose in that respect they aren't that much different than most other professional athletes, in order to perform at the top levels as an adult it seems you have to begin very early in life.

In reply to oldtin:

Oldsaw agrees with Oldtin.

If parents mitigated risk against reward for their kids' activities, the Sennas, Schumachers, Vettels, Haydens, Rossis of the world would never have had the opportunity to develop their inate talents.

The potential speed of the activity has little correlation to the potential of an accident occurring. The kid was run-over by another rider on the warm-up lap and speeds were no way near the 120MPH speeds often referred to in this thread. If Peter Lenz had hit a tree at 30MPH while practicing on a down-hill ski run, he'd be just as dead. The same result could happen on a BMX course or in a skateboard park.

This was a tragic accident, nothing more or less.

My greatest sympathies and condolences go out to the Lenz and Zayat families and especially to Xavier, the young rider who hit Peter.

The only difference between this kid and say, Lewis Hamilton, is Lewis didn't die when he was young. A lot of top tier talent in motorsports start at a very young age for a reason.

There are risks in every single thing we do. Even as kids. When I was younger, and just getting into kid pitch baseball, a pitcher got smashed in the face with a line drive. Broke his jaw, knocked out most of his teeth.

Life is about balancing risk with reward. It's a very sad event, and my heart goes out to the parents. But should we stop letting kids do martial arts because they get hurt? What about playing paintball, playing basketball, or any other sport you can think of?

In racing, there is no such thing as an "accident" they are crashes. So why did this crash happen ? Was it driver error, mechanical failure, track condition. On report said he fell off his motorcycle. He was a very talented driver, what happened ? Overconfidence ? Motorcycle track racing is perhaps the most dangerous form of racing. Unfortunately, this happen to a 13 yr old. His parents must be devistated.

One thing that's bugging me is that everyone keeps saying "Oh a 13 year old shouldn't do this", "A 13 year old is just fine for that", as if all kids develop at the same speed.

I know for a fact they're are many 13 year olds that cannot handle the concept of racing safely. I also know for a fact that there are 13 year olds that can.

It's a kid. For some reason he crashed. Yes it's unfortunate, but the excitement of racing comes from the prospect of danger. Mitigate it best you can, there's still a chance that something very bad is going to happen to you or your car.

Sucks all around.

I agree with Drewsifer. How many kids have died while playing PopWarner football? What about Little League? How does racing compare to Skateboarding in terms of potential harm? Why aren't any of these child sport being banned?

I agree that motorcylcle racing is by nature dangerous and that I probably would not feel comfortable letting my (future?) child participate.

Football, baseball etc I don't have as much of a problem with. I did sustained some injuries in the 10-18 year old range. Around the age of 10 I was hit in the face by a line drive while pitching. Fractured my skull at the eye socket. I had several ribs cracked twice while playing football both in an organized league and playing a pickup game.

My mother still worries when I autocross, rallycross and track the car. My dad ran my first autocross with me when I was 16.

I believe in motorsports the likelyhood of injury is relatively small but when E36 M3 hits the fan you don't end up with a bruise. You end up with a very expensive paperweight and often times serious medical bills/death.

Well I don't pretend to have the answers. I'm amazed I lived through my childhood with all the stupid E36 M3 I did growing up.

I wonder how many kids have drowned in a bath tub or back yard swimming pool?