Poor kid that died at Indy

FWIW I started riding motorcycles when I was 10, not competively but nonetheless.. I started crashing motorcycles about 5 minutes later.

I was allowed to ride unsupervised and I did stupid things. If anything I feel that putting a child in a controlled regulated situation such as organized motorsports gives them a better chance. Kids do stupid things, kids get hurt, kids die. Its sad but true, locking them away in an isolated box without danger has lead to a rather large population of our youth today being unaware of the true meaning of risk and consequence and left them wholly unprepared for adult life.

I have always held to the mantra that I would rather worry about how Im going to live my life than worry about what will end it and I hope my daughter gets at least some of that in her life. Life is to be experienced and enjoyed, without adventures and yes, risks, we are merely plodding through waiting to die.

All I can say is- Back in the 70's I had a motorcycle dealership for a customer. I got to be pretty good friends with the owner. He built some great race bikes, both for drags and road course. I asked him how he does on track, he replied "Oh, I don't race anymore. You can't compete with the crazy kids. They haven't been hurt yet, I have".

spitfirebill wrote: I wonder how many kids have drowned in a bath tub or back yard swimming pool?

One he11uva lot more than those racing motorcycles.

WE NEED TO NEVER LET CHILDREN OUTSIDE BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR FUTURE

LET THEM PLAY X-BOX WHERE THEY CAN'T GET HURT

(how come so many kids are fat and have no initiative?)

It seems that overprotective mothers run this dammed country. They seem to operate off of percieved danger rather than acutall danger.

The same mother who call for a ban on kids in motorsports don't have any issue putting their little girl on the back of a 2000 lb hooved beast that top out at 45 mph and has been known bite, kick, and or buck its rider off of it when the mood strikes it.

At least cars, motorcycles, and karts don't go out of their way to try and hurt you.

Wow, where did that rant come from???

Capt Slow wrote: Wow, where did that rant come from???

It's a reaction to shrews-on-a-soapbox (like Wendy Murphy who was featured in a FoxNews interview) who believe their standards should be the norm for all others.

Murphy actually advocated an investigation of Lenz's parents for "willfull neglect" and possible prosecution.

Or is that persecution?

Any young death is tragic. It really doesnt matter whether it is intentional, malicious or negligent; a death of a youth is a death and there is great unrealized potential that goes away. I think that we all agree to that point. While this death was probably far from the contemplation of most when the day began, I find it interesting that there are two posts today on facebook walls about children who suffered broken arms/wrists playing football this weekend. Those injuries could just as easily been fatal.
As adults we all accept that danger lurks at every turn and that you can only protect against the obvious risks. In 20 years of W2W racing, I cannot recall a point where I felt at a real risk of injury or worse and that includes being upside down on two occasions. I have felt at risk 1)walking across a parking lot in Memphis, 2) confronting an angry spouse in my office and 3) being a passenger in a plane trying to land in a storm. In the first two instances, I was armed and trained to use the weapon but in the third, I was just along for the ride. I can tell you which was the scariest of the situation: the plane since I had no control of the final outcome. My only injury in any of those was cuts from a fellow passengers fingernails where she gripped my hand.
My point is that as others have said in various ways, danger is all around us and it was merely his time when the young man got killed. Luckily it aint been my time yet.

Good parents make things relatively safe. With proper education, guidance and supervision, kids can safely ride horses, play sports, swim and even take part in motorsports. Tracking a motorcycle at triple digit speeds? I don't know how to make that relatively safe for a child. Even if you follow all the guidelines, it is just inherently dangerous.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/30/decide-kids-high-speed-sports-death-motorcycle-indianapolis-speedway-dad/

A FOX news poll on the matter.

FOX coverage on the matter:

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/08/fox-news-sensationalizes-peter-lenz-death/

I really hate that Wendy Murphy chick. Serious bitch.

I've heard on here people moan about the fact that we don't have any F1 drivers, but the F1 drivers worldwide begin racing karts, motorcycles and whatnot at a much earlier age than 13.

I was going to midget races in the third grade. Unfortunately I was watching while my friends drove.

Otto_Maddox wrote: Good parents make things relatively safe. With proper education, guidance and supervision, kids can safely ride horses, play sports, swim and even take part in motorsports. Tracking a motorcycle at triple digit speeds? I don't know how to make that relatively safe for a child. Even if you follow all the guidelines, it is just inherently dangerous.

+1

-1 to the 'died doing what he loved' crowd. That works for a 65 year old guy, it's insulting when used for a dead child.

Motorsports parents are probably like soccer parents or pageant moms... some of them are living through their kids, want their kids to excel beyond their potential, and we all know what the worst ones are like.

Speaking generally here, don't know the specifics.

-James

Are the chances of getting seriously hurt or killed at a track higher? Yes, it would be dumb to think otherwise.

But, I personally would rather take that risk rather than die after being smashed to smithereens by some sheeple in a gigantic SUV that decided to run the light because they were late for their make up, soccer appointment, or whatever.

I live in a college town, a town that is barely large enough to support its regular population and 9 months of the year is packed with 30,000 extra people and drivers. Each day I have atleast one close call, each day I see atleast one accident. Eventually my luck will run out, and it has and I've been hit head on by someone who was obviously too busy to pay attention. I walked, mostly unharmed, maybe the luck won't be the same next time.

We can control our actions and take precautions as much as we want, but I strongly believe in living life to the fullest because you have no idea when you won't be able to enjoy the simple pleasures.

Assessing risk, make your choices.

I can't see that racing motorcycles is any more dangerous than thousands of things I did when I was a kid. In a controlled environment it's probably safer than a lot of the stupid crap I did. I can remember jumping a bonfire on my bike when I was Lenz's age. I'm fairly certain that was more dangerous than racing a motorcycle with full safety gear. I was probably wearing polyester pants and shirt. It was the 70s.

Would I let my child race motorcycles? I honestly don't know. Would I finance it? No, though I do finance them autocrossing and would let them track a car if I could afford it. Would I let them ride one? Probably, I let them ride skateboards, and I have had one of them put me in the hospital. Do I think Lenz's parents are idiots? No. They are just one of thousands of parents that have lost children to unfortunate accidents. Over 53000 of them in 2007 (the last year I could find complete stats for), 12442 from accidents. 7670 of those to some kind of motor vehicle accident. All you can do is prey for the best and give them the best safety gear you can find/afford. That and let them get hurt as little kids so they learn that actions have consequences.

Sometimes life sucks. They have my condolences.

I am upset about the incident. I can't remember the news company but what I am most angered about was how this report exuded how excellent young Mr. Lentz was a multiple time champion and an AMA Expert by age 11, then turned on Mr. Zayat as a rider, who at 12 years old, could not possibly be able to handle a machine at those speeds.

It was a tragic accident. I am not certain I would allow my children to perform in such a theater, although Trevor is two and wants a real drumset and he will get a real set soon enough (seriously, the kid spends all day plodding out on a pair of ottomans a Parents snare, a tambourine and a huge crayon with a paper plate screwed to the top of it).

I'm very sorry for the loss. It sucks to lose anyone and it's worse when it's a kid.

It's even worse when the lamestream media starts a E36 M3storm in the name of 'protecting the children'. True story: in the Northeast, a dirt bike club bought something like 250 acres so they and their kids would always have a place to ride. The sheriff (a woman) threatened that, if a kid were injured riding on that piece of property, she'd prosecute for child abuse. Cooler and more intelligent heads prevailed.

I started racing motocross at age 10. My brothers rode trailbikes with me, but I was the only one who wanted to really push it further. My dad never pushed me to do it, but he never told me I couldn't, either; in fact he drove the van and carried my young dumb ass out there every weekend. At the time, I felt I was indestructible, made of rubber and springs and I'm sure that worried the hell out of my mom.

That part of my life meant a lot to me as a kid and as an adult as well. Right up till he died, my dad and I could talk motorcycles, cars, hot rods, racing etc because we both 'got it', we always 'clicked' when it came to that and I'd never trade that for anything.

Fast forward to becoming a dad: my daughter does not show any real inclination to get into any of what are poorly named 'extreme sports'. But if she had, I would not have tried to stop her. Like my dad, I would have helped.

For myself, I wound down my motorcycle racing after she was born because as someone else in this thread has noted, I was racing against kids who didn't have mortgages and kids to worry about. I moved into 'safer' venues like autocross and hillclimbs, at least I have a cage around me unlike dirt biking.

I think that kids doing outdoor sports trump those who live vicariously pushing buttons on a game controller, even if it is more dangerous physically. At least the outdoors kids are living a real life, not some ersatz bullE36 M3.

Reading about this accident does stir up some issues. My opinion on the subject is I'm not against kids and competitive sports, it's part of growing up. Just like little league and pop warner football. But I do think for that age the equipment should be limited speed wise. I just don't think 12/13 year olds should be in the triple digit speeds. How much less should be based on experience but I would say no more than 70-75. I know you can die at that speed too, he!! you can die at 5mph. Not sure if a slower speed would have saved him but might have given the other rider just enough to avoid him or not hit as square on. When to progress to triple digits? How about when they are legal to drive on the street then they can go triple digits on track. But thats just my opinion.

wlkelley3 wrote: Reading about this accident does stir up some issues. My opinion on the subject is I'm not against kids and competitive sports, it's part of growing up. Just like little league and pop warner football. But I do think for that age the equipment should be limited speed wise. I just don't think 12/13 year olds should be in the triple digit speeds. How much less should be based on experience but I would say no more than 70-75. I know you can die at that speed too, he!! you can die at 5mph. Not sure if a slower speed would have saved him but might have given the other rider just enough to avoid him or not hit as square on. When to progress to triple digits? How about when they are legal to drive on the street then they can go triple digits on track. But thats just my opinion.

While I can't find any reports about how fast they where going, they all agree it was on a warm up lap. So I would guess they weren't going triple digit speeds at the time. So its a little hard to see why lowering the speeds would make safer.

Capt Slow wrote: The same mother who call for a ban on kids in motorsports don't have any issue putting their little girl on the back of a 2000 lb hooved beast that top out at 45 mph and has been known bite, kick, and or buck its rider off of it when the mood strikes it. At least cars, motorcycles, and karts don't go out of their way to try and hurt you. Wow, where did that rant come from???

I for one would really like to see that 2000 lb horse!

Drewsifer wrote:

wlkelley3 wrote: Reading about this accident does stir up some issues. My opinion on the subject is I'm not against kids and competitive sports, it's part of growing up. Just like little league and pop warner football. But I do think for that age the equipment should be limited speed wise. I just don't think 12/13 year olds should be in the triple digit speeds. How much less should be based on experience but I would say no more than 70-75. I know you can die at that speed too, he!! you can die at 5mph. Not sure if a slower speed would have saved him but might have given the other rider just enough to avoid him or not hit as square on. When to progress to triple digits? How about when they are legal to drive on the street then they can go triple digits on track. But thats just my opinion.

While I can't find any reports about how fast they where going, they all agree it was on a warm up lap. So I would guess they weren't going triple digit speeds at the time. So its a little hard to see why lowering the speeds would make safer.

A video report of the accident included an account from an eye witness and showed the portion of the track where the incident occured. It was on a very short straight section between two tight left hand turns. There was no freakin way speeds were anywhere near 120mph and were likely far less than 70-75mph.

Way too many people have jumped on the top-speed potential of a 125cc bike but they are totally ignorant that cornering speeds are much lower - more so on a warm-up lap. In road racing, few accidents ever occur on straights and most occur before, in or after slow-to-medium speed turns.

There are a lot of aSSumptions about the facts of this tragic event.

Lesley wrote: I for one would really like to see that 2000 lb horse!

Clydesdales can weigh 2000 lbs.

Although I don't think too many kids are riding them, apparently equestrian accidents seen at hospitals outnumber motorcycle accidents 3-1

Sorry I misspoke a quick Wikipedia search indicates the average horse is "only" 1200 lbs of bad temper ...

Capt Slow wrote: It seems that overprotective mothers run this dammed country. They seem to operate off of percieved danger rather than acutall danger. The same mother who call for a ban on kids in motorsports don't have any issue putting their little girl on the back of a 2000 lb hooved beast that top out at 45 mph and has been known bite, kick, and or buck its rider off of it when the mood strikes it. At least cars, motorcycles, and karts don't go out of their way to try and hurt you. Wow, where did that rant come from???

Wow, we're really terrible parents. We let our kids do both.

zomby woof wrote:

Lesley wrote: I for one would really like to see that 2000 lb horse!

Clydesdales can weigh 2000 lbs. Although I don't think too many kids are riding them, apparently equestrian accidents seen at hospitals outnumber motorcycle accidents 3-1

Yup, that's the ratio we're running. Three equistrian accidents, that required a trip to the emergency room, comes to a total of 4 broken ribs, 1 concussion, a badly bruised hip and a broken arm Dirt Bike accident resulted in a sprained ankle.

Motorcycles don't have their own brains and cannot make their own decisions, which may run counter to your own. I've always felt much more comfortable on bikes than on horses.

Plus, you don't have to shovel up motorcycle E36 M3 on Christmas morning.

Woody wrote: Motorcycles don't have their own brains and cannot make their own decisions,

They seem to when I ride them.