Pour one out for the Fiat 500?

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/fiat-500-discontinued-2020/

Not sure how people feel about these.

Not surprising, really. Americans need bigger cars. How else would you haul your messenger bag on your daily solo commute?

Seriously though, I'm not surprised. Anything smaller than a 4-door Golf platform is going to find it very hard to survive until the economy drops down again. (And then we'll see it all over again when the economy rises back up). Anything with less than 4-doors will, similarly, find it hard to survive without a dedicated niche like the Mustang, Midlife Mobiles (Porsche and 'Vettes), and Miatas. Anything that isn't selling features, unneeded space, and height is in danger, really.

I'm not surprised either, but it is sad. I bought a base model (Pop) 500 in 2012 and it served my wife and me very well until earlier this year when I sold it with 80k+ miles on it. It was totally problem-free, efficient, and good looking. I'd love to pick up a 500C Abarth at some point to use as a sunny day cruiser.

Guess what press car we're getting tomorrow? 

rented 500's twice.  Hated them both times- and it really has nothing to do with size.  Twice, the car stalled going up hill, as it just could not put enough power out.  

The problem with the size wasn't that it was small, it was that it was hardly very useable.

You see smarts and other tiny cars in Europe and Asia, but I think there it's a combination of economy and footprint, with that tiny footprint being a biggie. Here, most of our parking is fairly well regulated. Yes, we have "compact only" parking, but those spots will hold most any small car.

Just looking at fueleconomy.gov right now. The 2019 Fiat 500 gets 27 combined mpg. The 2019 Yaris posts 35 combined. The Yaris also has a lower starting MSRP while sporting four doors. So, you have to ask: For the average consumer, what's the Fiat's value proposition? 

(Also, I see that you can do a new Yaris with a six-speed stick.)

I suppose it's a lifestyle car which would trump it over the Yaris by a gazillion miles based on looks only any day.  If I ever own one that is how I would approach it.  It's funny when it comes to parking I almost never came across a parallel spot in NW DC where I would think ya know a tiny car would fit in that spot.  Those never seemed to materialize.

But yeah it's a shame.  I could care less how crap they are if they bring a little bit of whimsy to a market saturated in econo-mobiles.  Kind of a dammit I'll drive it regardless of how it stacks up against the competition.  Having said that there are a E36 M3 ton of them in DC already...so.

How long before 'orphan' status craters re-sale below $2k?  For an Abarth? 

I both get and hate the four door fanaticism. (Not directed at anyone on this forum, just a generalized statement.) I get that it works better with kids and all that jazz but I'm still bitter that VW killed the 2 door GTI. The 4 doors look alright but, IMO, the 2 door was superior aesthetically while still being nearly as utilitarian. I'm not in the market for a new car, and don't typically like new features as a rule but, I see the need for 4 doors plus the desire to simplify production lines as much as possible as factors working to homogenize the car market moving forward. With R&D money seemingly being spent on putting more shaving edges on cars, or being spent on the winnerless features race, I'm not hopeful that future Error404 is going to have a fun time looking for a car.

Do I miss the Fiat 500? Not at all. The 500 is just another casualty in the homogenization of the car market, though, and that does not fill me with joy.

David S. Wallens said:

So, you have to ask: For the average consumer, what's the Fiat's value proposition?

This.  Sometimes it seems like manufacturers make tiny cars and saddle them with utter crappiness just to see if people really are stupid enough to buy one.  The Smart comes to mind. 

Surely there's a way to make a car as much fun as say, a Mini Cooper, but keep it cheap and reliable?

alfadriver said:

rented 500's twice.  Hated them both times- and it really has nothing to do with size.  Twice, the car stalled going up hill, as it just could not put enough power out.  

The problem with the size wasn't that it was small, it was that it was hardly very useable.

If a 500 can't handle a hill because of "power output" then how did every other sub-100hp car sold handle that hill?

Something fishy about this...

Personally, I wanted to like these cars enough to actually test drive one, but I wanted something bigger as my only car, and I can't imagine buying a Fiat in the USA with their dealer network and the level of quality that I believe their cars to be at.

I enjoy the hell out of my Abarth. It's been a trouble free pair of years with plenty of smiles per mile. It's one of those cars that would be totally obnoxious if it didn't look so damn cute. I really do consider it the Chihuahua of cars. it's vicious enough to attack anybody and everyone, but cute enough to make people not realize it

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

crappy gearing.  Once was in a hotel parking- where there was a steep incline to get to it- and I had to beat the heck out of the clutch to slip it enough to get there.  The second time was leaving the parking area for a small Italian town where the parking was down a steep hill.  I got just a few feet from exiting, and it stalled.  So I had to back down the hill and get a running start.

Having an Italian car that could not handle normal Italian situations sucked really hard.  It's not as if these hill towns don't happen.  And odd parking due to a hotel area that pre-dates cars is also not unusual.

To me, it's not surprising that the car just didn't sell in it's base form.

edit- ironically, the 1.4l turbo from the Abarth is one recent idea that haunts me on the DM X1/9.  I'll never make one, but it's interesting to think about.

David S. Wallens said:

The 2019 Fiat 500 gets 27 combined mpg.

Yeah, that's absolutely abysmal. A Mazda 3 is much larger and get's 10% combined better mileage. Since we aren't trying to park in the bike lot in America, you're right, those tiny cars don't make a lot of sense outside of the few largest cities in the country..........and even then.......

also, how old is the platform the 500 is on? The first ones were produced in 2007, so they are getting on 13 years with only a few cosmetic updates. I have heard rumors of a "new" 500 that will be all electric

a real  500 is rear engine , air cooled  , .......

I talked with a guy last weekend who had an Fiat 500 Electric  , 80-90 mile range .....

That will be the one when they get down to $2000 or ??????

alfadriver said:

edit- ironically, the 1.4l turbo from the Abarth is one recent idea that haunts me on the DM X1/9.  I'll never make one, but it's interesting to think about.

Yeah. They sound *amazing*. I don't know why they're so distinctive. I'm fascinated by the valvetrain. I wish they weren't (and I've totally accepted unverified info) heavy for their size, iron block... Apparently there hasn't been the demand for unlocking the factory electronics enough for there to be a commercial solution, and while I'm fascinated by the idea of mapping lift and duration for throttle... It's daunting, and I don't even know whether there are aftermarket ECUs capable of driving that stuff.

Just in case folks haven't already seen it, this is as close as I've seen on the X1/9 swap. It totally works, but there are a few bits that would probably bother me (e.g. having the key fob mounted in the trunk). You'll have to hop around to see other videos where he's got it up and running and so forth, but that's a decent starting point.

I think the 500 was based on the Punto platform from the 90's.  It's pretty aged, even for an FCA product.

alfa, that's pretty crazy that the gearing was that bad.

I wish that Suzuki had sold the Swift for the years up to leaving the US market.  It seems like they do this sort of thing quite well.

It seems like these are giggle machines. Does it take itself seriously? I'd say no, it doesn't. Is it the fastest, best handling FWD hot hatch? Not even close.

I've never driven one but they seem like a ton of fun. Just a fun, angry little car.

There are better looking, cheaper, and more efficient vehicles with that form factor.  

Not hard to see why it died.   I really wanted to like them, but they did nothing very well, and weren't aesthetically pleasing to my eye, even with J-Lo driving them in the commercials.

stanger_missle said:

 

It seems like these are giggle machines. Does it take itself seriously? I'd say no, it doesn't. Is it the fastest, best handling FWD hot hatch? Not even close.

I've never driven one but they seem like a ton of fun. Just a fun, angry little car.

See, I think it looks great. But it doesn't seem to do anything else well enough to make me want to buy it. 

That's the problem I had. I love the way they look, but when I test drove one I was totally underwhelmed.

I was prepared to buy one despite my son's being a not very good car, and rather expensive to own

I find the looks of the 500 comical and just about the ugliest new car there is. Had one as a rental and did not like it. Mostly for the dashboard layout with circles inside circles inside circles. Ugh. Also it was no fun in the snow I think due to being taller than wide snd having a short wheelbase. 

These are one of the vehicles with a rabid fanbase that I just don’t get. 

Despite how bad my Son's was, it remains his favourite car.

I'm sorry it's going.  It's not a car that was ever on my personal RADAR, but it's a vehicle I like the fact it existed.  Unfortunately people over here don't want small vehicles and the small vehicles they do want, aren't really small.  We just bought my wife Mini Clubman, a 'small' car that's the same size as my 'mid' size Volvo C30 but with a longer wheel base, and basically the same wheelbase, width and height as our 07 S60.  The 500 was a genuinely small car.  Everyone I know who has one or has been in one likes it, but they are all Abarth's, I don't know anyone, nor have talked to anyone with a base car.  

Honestly, I could not imagine driving the non-abarth. I know on the way home, the last couple of miles I turn it off of Sport mode and just let it more or less coast. A few times I have had to get on it with the sport mode off, it does a very good job of falling on it's face if you ask it to do anything with that magical button off