Proud to be American (semi-rant)

Had a conversation with a German who was bagging on the American military following someone saying that we should fund NASA better. That just bugged me. Now, I'm hardly a flag-waving super-patriot. I do not agree with a lot of things our country does. I think we spend a bit too much on the military and stick our nose into a few too many places it doesn't belong.

But having a Berliner get feisty because "The military is all that counts!" just pissed me off. No, our military is not all that counts, but it sure as heck counts for a lot, especially in a place like Berlin. What languages are you speaking? Russian? No, I didn't think so. You're speaking German and English, that latter of which no one forced on you. Two foreign powers occupied your city after a defeating you in a war you started. One of them brought you the wall and Stasi. The other launched the largest humanitarian air mission in history so that your parents and grandparents could eat, then left peacefully when things settled down. Somehow I doubt you guys would have extended the same courtesy to us.

Do we get everything right? Hardly. But the world could do a lot worse, and I don't appreciate people getting on my case for something that is my problem not theirs. I've got a lot more right to be critical of our military than most foreigners. I don't get pissed at you for how you run your country.

Whatever you do - don't mention the war!

On the topic of confrontations with cultures whom we've done war:

My girlfriend resettles refugees from Bhutan, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, etc.

Some of those places we had a military prescense, some we did not. Usually the places where we did, the refugees are very appreciative of American intervention.

They are sooo happy to be in the United States! They have freedom, are no longer scared, and can live/work/own a house.

What's funny is we've noticed many of her refugee clients becoming very right wing. Why? Taxes.

They come from a country where the United States has spend hundreds of millions, billions of dollars...and as soon as they hit American shores they are immediately pissed off that they have to pay into the system that well...helped them.

I think that qualifies as a full rant.

I obviously didn't hear the conversation, but it sounds like he is criticizing our current military, not the one that saved their asses over 60 years ago. Our current military and policies have plenty to disagree with.

Neil agrees about NASA- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhNZENMG1o

(Standing by with pictures of cute brunettes in case this starts getting ugly )

In my experiences German attitudes (to totally stereotype) were:

Older generation (either WWII vets or alive during the war) are very appreciative to and love Americans.

Middle aged (less than 50 but over 30) seemed to not be the biggest fans of USA.

Younger kids love the US, probably just for "hip" stuff.

Helped me get along. I'm also a fan of wearing american flag shirts etc. while traveling abroad. I'm proud.

In reply to JohnInKansas:

No arguement here

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Cone_Junky wrote: In reply to JohnInKansas: No arguement here <img src="" />

FTFY. There were a couple things missing. THis girl starts to look like that after the 2nd round.

I studied in Ireland for a semester a little over a year ago, and interacted with young people from all over Europe. Lots of people wanted to talk/debate politics with me. For the most part, I tried to be go against the stereotype of young Americans abroad, and be calm, quiet and as rational as I could possibly be. And steer the subject back toward the cute local gal over in the corner.

what were we talking about?

This thread was about beer right? I sure could use a cold one right about now.

Gps said: There were a couple things missing.

Blonde hair and blue eyes?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Whatever you do - don't mention the war!

Ignore him. He's from Barcelona.

Please don't get me started on Irish girls. I have work to do this afternoon.

When I went to Ireland I noticed the girls where amazingly beautiful, but not all that interested in American guys. It seems they are used to American men on vacation looking just to score.

When I went to Ireland I also noticed that Irish men LOVED American women.....because the girls were on vacation and looking just to score.

good friend of mine is german. He came over about 5 years ago. He HATES it when people want to talk about the war.

For the next time he gets huffy.

I'd much prefer to spend money on a Mars mission myself, because I love that kind of stuff. But unfortunately there's just too damn many people out there who don't have our best interests at heart to just disband the military. Tell them to put theirs down and we'll put ours down.

George Carlin once said America was the only country which would bomb you back to the Stone Age and then spend a wad to bring you back. It wasn't just Germany, Japan and Italy were both recipients of US aid after WWII. The only reason Vietnam didn't was because the North Vietnamese closed the damn country after the fall/evacuation of Saigon.

Curmudgeon wrote: The only reason Vietnam didn't was because the North Vietnamese closed the damn country after the fall/evacuation of Saigon.

That, and y'all didn't exactly win that war...

My German friends (40's) are not anti-American. We've never talked about the war, but I know from offhand comments that at least one of them thinks the Germans at the time were being complete idiots.

I've been on a NASA kick since visiting Kennedy Space Center after Sebring, and it's astounding refreshing myself on the program. The single-mindedness of it all and the rapid progress. Gene Kranz's book "Failure is not an option" is a really good read.

In 1961, the first American went into space. In 1969, one was standing on the moon. All while Vietnam and a whole bunch of social change was going on. So, what's happened since 2004? Well, we got the iPhone...

I'd love to see more money go into NASA and less into US soldiers in the middle east.

you should see the comments on any news article concerning NASA.. there is always a couple of people who want to shut it down and use the miniscule budget they have to feed people. Far too many people do not see the technological break throughs we have had because of a space program

Keith wrote: I'd love to see more money go into NASA and less into US soldiers in the middle east.

Word.

But it's like bringing that up opened the door that I am and all Americans are horrendous war mongers because a friend suggested we should fund a particular department of the military, NASA. Just like, "Holy crap. Americans care about more than just our military. And as an American, I have a heck of a lot more right to complain about it than you."

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: FTFY. There were a couple things missing. THis girl starts to look like that after the 2nd round.

While the lady in the first picture is quite attractive, I think you are doing the 2nd lady a great disservice by implying beer-goggles would be needed to want to "hit dat."

You guys have to remember that WW2 was 70 years ago... Using "well our kick-ass military saved your butts back then" as an argument now isn't going to change anyone's mind. In Europe, especially Germany but pretty much everywhere else too other than the UK, WW2 is something that most people would rather forget about or learn from as history than celebrate. There are no WW2 hero parades around here. That's a good thing.

Germany's gone through two major regime changes (well, arguably one if you're a Wessie ) since then and a lot of people over here see the U.S. as a bit of a political dinosaur, as if Truman were still in power. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the attitude.

That all said, I may agree somewhat in principle with the uppity twit mentioned in the OP, but I would never get all up in someone's face over it. That kind of "you represent 100% of "your" government's actions and policies" attitude irks the hell out of me too. No, they're not "my" government or "my" military or whatever, and I haven't voted in years so there's no way you can pin anything they've done on me. If you want to rant, fine, but don't expect me to play along when you try to make it a "your people did...!" thing. Argh.

On my few trips outside of North America, I've saw lots of US citizens impersonating Canadians because it makes their lives a whole lot easier... lots of unfair (and not deserved) attitude towards you guys sometimes

WWII may have been 70 years ago but yes it's still a valid point. It is also folly to try to sweep it under the rug, so to speak, since those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

When the Allied troops started discovering the concentration camps, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower went to the front to see for himself. His orders were: 'Take all the pictures and movies you can. I don't want some son of a bitch claiming this never happened'. After seeing what Ahmenajid (sp? Iranian leader) said about the Holocaust, it's obvious ol' Dwight knew what he was talking about.

THAT is what 70 years will do; let the nutcases loose. So hell no we should NEVER let it drop.

I would suspect that since Germany was on the wrong side and was led by the most evil person in recorded history that they might feel a bit squeamish about the subject. Can't help that. It's what happened.

The French remind us every so often they took our side back in the days of George Washington. How long ago was that? We fought for independence from England in the 1700's and were attacked by them in 1812, they supported the losing side in our War between the States yet we came to their defense twice in the last century, the first time less than 60 years after the Civil War. It seems we big dumb ugly Americans have a 'we forgive and forget, and lemme help you out of this mess' attitude.

If the rest of the world can't see that, screw 'em. They can fight their own damn internal wars, suffer under their own dictators, fix their own famines, clean up after their own natural disasters etc, we'll keep our military at home.

Because, after all, it's generally the US military which winds up doing all that for them.

Curmudgeon wrote: WWII may have been 70 years ago but yes it's still a valid point. It is also folly to try to sweep it under the rug, so to speak, since those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. When the Allied troops started discovering the concentration camps, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower went to the front to see for himself. His orders were: 'Take all the pictures and movies you can. I don't want some son of a bitch claiming this never happened'. After seeing what Ahmenajid (sp? Iranian leader) said about the Holocaust, it's obvious ol' Dwight knew what he was talking about. THAT is what 70 years will do; let the nutcases loose. So hell no we should NEVER let it drop. I would suspect that since Germany was on the wrong side and was led by the most evil person in recorded history that they might feel a bit squeamish about the subject. Can't help that. It's what happened. The French remind us every so often they took our side back in the days of George Washington. How long ago was that? We fought for independence from England in the 1700's and were attacked by them in 1812, they supported the losing side in our War between the States yet we came to their defense twice in the last century, the first time less than 60 years after the Civil War. It seems we big dumb ugly Americans have a 'we forgive and forget, and lemme help you out of this mess' attitude. If the rest of the world can't see that, screw 'em. They can fight their own damn internal wars, suffer under their own dictators, fix their own famines, clean up after their own natural disasters etc, we'll keep our military at home. Because, after all, it's generally the US military which winds up doing all that for them.

I heart teh curmudgeon. Also: When it comes down to it, if my federal tax dollars paid for NOTHING else, I'd be happy if they paid for the "common defense," in the interest of securing the blessings of liberty. It's understandable that Germans get so touchy. "But the economy sucked, and he was such a great speaker!"

rmarkc wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: FTFY. There were a couple things missing. THis girl starts to look like that after the 2nd round.

While the lady in the first picture is quite attractive, I think you are doing the 2nd lady a great disservice by implying beer-goggles would be needed to want to "hit dat."

Meh. There's just an overwhelming lack of brunette in her.