Plainly put, I suck at it. I tend to write how I talk and without the inflection, it probably reads like crap.
This is a post of mine from another thread. A lot of you have pretty good writing skills and I would like to improve mine. What would you guys and gals do different?
I don't have a problem with what he drives. If he wants to tote his kid around in a Peterbuilt or a Model T or even a ragged out Porsche, I'm good with that. Hell, my wife's DD is a 180K mile Jeep and I send my daughter 100 miles away to college, in a 160K mile Camaro. All my cars are high mileage and basically worn out if you ask the general public. But, I've got spares, and know how fix them or afford to pay someone else to.
My problem is he can't, won't or can't afford to fix it and knowing that, he still bought one of the most expensive cars to repair, and thought it would be a good DD. The friend I posted about earlier bought a worn out POS F350 diesel dually to be his DD. It had issues when he bought it and he could barely afford to put fuel in it. He's had it for 6-7 years. It's run about 2 of those years because he can't fix it and has no money. I offered to buy it from him at probably twice what it's worth, but he won't sell it. He wanted me to pay to fix it and use it when I wanted to tow my race trailer. I bought another truck instead. He's still a little pissed about that.
There are a pile of beater BMW 7 series cars running around here. They are all driven by people that can't afford to fix them when they die. They will probably miss work when that happens. I won't feel sorry for them. The only way people like that will change their thought processes, is to suffer the consequences of their decisions. There was a reason I drove a POS Ford Pinto for a long time. It wasn't because I thought they were cool.
Don't bash Pintos. They are cool no matter what my wife says. Even though for full disclosure, she has a thing for a Thing. 
In reply to Ranger50:
I've been looking for another one for a while. Around here they are all junk or overpriced.
oldtin
UltraDork
8/12/13 6:43 p.m.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/section/1/5/
Like most things, to write well, takes practice and focus.
Just say no to owl.... APA sucks serious ass.
oldtin
UltraDork
8/12/13 6:50 p.m.
JoeyM
Mod Squad
8/12/13 7:06 p.m.
I'm not an English major type, but I'll take a stab at it. (Hey, this is the internet, where everyone gets to pretend to be an expert.) The biggest thing I would to is break up the sentences into smaller (i.e. less run-on) pieces.
Toyman01 wrote:
I don't have a problem with what he drives. If he wants to tote his kid around in a Peterbuilt or a Model T or even a ragged out Porsche, I'm good with that. Hell, my wife's DD is a 180K mile Jeep and I send my daughter 100 miles away to college in a 160K mile Camaro. All my cars are high mileage and basically worn out if you ask the general public. But, I've got spares, and know how fix them or afford to pay someone else to.
My version of that paragraph would be:
I don't have a problem with what he drives. (If he wants to tote his kid around in a Peterbuilt, a Model T, or even a ragged out Porsche, I'm good with that.) Hell, I send my daughter to college 100 miles away in a Camaro with 160K miles on it. My wife's DD is a Jeep that has been driven 180K miles. All my cars are high mileage, and - if you trust the opinion of the general public - basically "worn out." However, I've got spares, and I know how fix them. Alternately, I can afford to pay someone else to do it for me.
Read more quality literature.
JoeyM
Mod Squad
8/12/13 7:11 p.m.
Johnboyjjb wrote:
Read more quality literature.
I agree. I hated the story of Steinbeck's book Grapes of Wrath, but he really knows how to use words to paint a picture. Reading his books shows you how descriptive writing can be (....even if you are not fond of the stories.)
I just hate APA and the citations and very specific nature of writing a paper in that format.
Hang on – the OP doesn't want to write a paper in a learned journal and cite his sources correctly, he just wants to write more clearly. OWL (from what I saw in a brief visit) can help him do that.
Toyman, FWIW, if I were editing your stuff from the first post [which is one of the things I do for a living], I would change maybe two commas and add one word. The rest seemed to me to be perfectly clear. It sounded the way you would have spoken it, which is fine for a post on GRM. However, it isn't the way you would write it if you wanted to hand it in as an essay or make it part of an article in a magazine. I think that's the "problem" you're sensing.
If you really want to explore how to write in different styles when necessary, can I suggest you try to make time to read high-quality stuff? For example, you can be pretty sure the New York Times is well written; your local fish-wrap with supermarket ads, maybe not so much. (No offense intended to anybody in local journalism.) Then ask yourself what made the NYT articles different from those in the Weekly Bugle & Fishwrap Gazette (besides just length.) The New Yorker or The Atlantic are also reliable, and so are lots of other publications.
It's important to understand for what audience you want to write before you embark on improving your skills. Writing well for an academic readership and in any academic format (well, any worthwhile academic format) is going to be rather different than writing for a general audience.
As someone who spends a fair bit of time reading essays, I can tell you that many of today's college students do not have the slightest idea that writing an academic paper should be a considerably different exercise than writing a Facebook post. It's a problem.
I probably read 1000 pages a week. Mostly science fiction books. Dry reading, unfortunately, puts me to sleep. I do remember reading Grapes of Wrath in HS though.
I did order the book posted by oldtin, Elements of Style. I'll just have to work at it. It's easy to bang out a bunch of words and skip the punctuation all together. I'm trying to break that habit.
OK, then you are the guy I would go to for a lecture on what makes some SF ready to stand the test of time and still be read in 60 years and some so forgettable you have to check the back cover and maybe leaf through it to see if you've read it before.
For a master class in writing clear, beautiful non-fiction that just grabs you and pulls you in, check out John McPhee's work in The New Yorker. He's even written a couple of pieces in the last year or so about how he does it.
Hal
Dork
8/12/13 9:01 p.m.
JoeyM wrote:
I'm not an English major type, but I'll take a stab at it. (Hey, this is the internet, where everyone gets to pretend to be an expert.) The biggest thing I would to is break up the sentences into smaller (i.e. less run-on) pieces.
Not an English major either. But I did teach for 28 years.
Run-on Sentences are the biggest problem I see on the internet. When we speak our thoughts may come out as long sentences, but they are broken up by slight pauses and/or changes in tone/inflection. When we try to put those same thoughts in print without punctuation it ends up as run-on sentences.
In reply to Stealthtercel:
His articles are pretty well locked down by The New Yorker. I downloaded one of his books instead. The John McPhee Reader.
Any other good authors I should look into.
It's really not bad, just a little conversational. A few too many commas, and you need to organize your thoughts a bit more before writing. Now, I'm no expert, but if I got it across my desk, my first draft would be:
I don't have a problem with what he drives. If he wants to tote his kid around in a Peterbuilt or a Model T or even a ragged out Porsche I'm good with that. Hell, my wife's DD is a Jeep with 180K miles and I send my daughter to college 100 miles away in a Camaro with 160K miles. All of my cars are high mileage and worn out if you ask the general public. But I've got spares and know how fix them...or afford to pay someone else to. My problem is with people who don't know how, refuse to or can't afford to have their vehicle repaired.
The friend I posted about earlier bought a worn out POS F350 diesel dually. This is one of the most expensive vehicles to repair, and he could barely afford to put fuel in it. It had issues when he bought it, and he is either incapable, or refuses to to fix it. Despite this, he felt it was a wise choice for a daily driver.
He's had it for 6-7 years now, and it's run maybe 2 of those years, because he can't fix it himself and he doesn't have the money to pay someone else to fix it. I offered to buy it from him, for probably twice what it's worth, but he won't sell it. He wanted me to pay to fix it and then use it when I wanted to tow my race trailer. I bought another truck instead and I think he's still a little pissed about that decision.
There are numerous beater BMW 7-Series cars on the roads around here. They are all driven by people who cannot afford to fix the car if it dies. They will probably miss work when that happens, and I for one won't feel sorry for them. The only way people like that will change their thought processes is to suffer the consequences of their decisions. There was a reason I drove a POS Ford Pinto for a long time, and it wasn't because I thought they were cool.
I am an English major, and you arent that bad. Your basic grammar is clear. You mostly just make minor comma errors dividing up phrases and clauses.
Corrected:
Toyman01 wrote:
I don't have a problem with what he drives. If he wants to tote his kid around in a Peterbuilt, or a Model T, or even a ragged out Porsche, I'm good with that. Hell, my wife's DD is a 180K mile Jeep, and I send my daughter 100 miles away to college in a 160K mile Camaro. All my cars are high mileage and basically worn out if you ask the general public, but I've got spares and know how fix them or afford to pay someone else to.
If anything, I will say your writing skill is pretty good. It is clear. You do not use complicated phrase structures that require greater control of punctuation and grammar than you have in order to be able to keep your meaning clear.
Conversational is fine. This is a forum post, not a published editorial.
Like the Baron, I also hold an English BA. Your posts are fine for the audience intended, and I wouldn't freak out and study the OWL for hours just to please us.
That said, I always endorse reading Steinbeck. Other great masters of the sentence are Ralph Waldo Emerson, Annie Dillard, Mark Twain, and John Updike.
Strunk and White's Elements of Style is the best little grammar book.
Toyman, your friendly local librarian would probably be happy to get the articles for you. (There's a better than even chance he or she will say, "John McPhee! I love his stuff!" when you ask.) More authors? In addition to others' suggestions, how about Peter Egan or John D. MacDonald?
JoeyM
Mod Squad
8/12/13 11:09 p.m.
Yes, Egan is a fun author for us (i.e. car nerds) and he is eloquent.
This will make you feel better: By today's standards, what you consider to be crappy informal writing is actually better than the writing you'd see in most newspapers/news sites.
GameboyRMH wrote:
This will make you feel better: By today's standards, what you consider to be crappy informal writing is actually better than the writing you'd see in most newspapers/news sites.
Having worked as a cop and a journalist, GFMFT
SVreX
MegaDork
8/13/13 8:50 a.m.
Write fewer words.
But it will take you more time.
Woodrow Wilson was once asked asked about the amount of time he spent preparing speeches. He said, "It depends. If I am to speak ten minutes, I need a week for preparation; if fifteen minutes, three days; if half an hour, two days; if an hour, I am ready now."
Henry David Thoreau (who wasn't a bad writer) once made a comment about story length, "Not that the story need be long, but it will take a long while to make it short".
Writing clearly and concisely takes time and energy. One exercise I do with my kids sometimes when they have written a paper is to hand it back to them and say, "Good job. Make it half as long".
Honestly, there really isn't anything wrong with your writing, for a forum post. It's pretty good. (I frequently wonder how much some folks have been drinking).
But for those times when it matters, go back, read it carefully, and make it shorter.
