No clue on the paper but color me jealous.
That building, within 20 minutes of me, would sell for $2-$4 million.
There is one close to me that I would love to put my business in. It's 5k sqft. It's on the market for $1.2 million.
No clue on the paper but color me jealous.
That building, within 20 minutes of me, would sell for $2-$4 million.
There is one close to me that I would love to put my business in. It's 5k sqft. It's on the market for $1.2 million.
Yeah man congratulations that's an awesome shop.
In reply to Toyman! :
The variation in commercial property values is incredible. Anything like this in the ten counties surrounding me would be multi millions. But an hour and a half away I've seen 100k square foot multistory warehouses in serviceable condition for $1M. If nobody wants it commercial real estate is just about worthless. But if it's in demand the sky's the limit.
It drives me crazy when I see these shabby metal warehouse buildings not just for sale but actually selling for $100+ per square foot. Yikes!
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Another thought....if you put an offer on it ,you want to know who did the roof installation and what warranty it has, if any. You might want to talk to the contractor ,too, just to see if it happened to be a quicky job to put the building up for sale......you know, the lipstick on a pig thing. Like John, I'm not trying to dissuade you, just go in eyes wide open.
The comments about the roof and/or warranties are all good info. Commercial roofing is expensive.
"Flat, rubber membrane 2-3 years old, with sufficient drainage" isn't much of a description. The roof is white. That may mean it's TPO which is a pretty good product (and easily repairable).
Commercial roofing often comes with a manufacturer's warranty (at a cost) which includes the installation labor. It's basically an insurance policy. But the manufacturers won't offer those warranties without first inspecting the installation carefully. If you can figure out if any warranty applies, it would be very valuable to you in the future.
If the roof was not installed by a certified installer, then it won't be warrantied. That also means that it was installed by roofers who may or may not be familiar with the installation details of the product.
Your purchase price should reflect these things. If there is a warranty then the value is higher.
11GTCS said:In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Not an architect, commercial HVAC so have been on the roof of a building or three. That appears to be a gypsum panel roof, those were a thing in the late 1950's - early 1960's. About 2 inches thick and apparently met code at that point in time for supporting the roof load over the span of the bar joists (4 feet?) I think the panels had a sheet metal frame around the perimeter to hold the gypsum. So yeah, basically a 2" thick sheet rock roof in those areas. It's fine if you have an intact roof membrane above and don't plan on putting any additional weight on it.
I used to haul around and install drywall and finally had to look up drywall weights. 1" of standard 4x8 drywall weighs 153 some pounds so 2" weighs about 306 pounds per 4x8 sheet. I can't imagine installing something like that. All day long. 
But then again, a 4x12 sheet of 5/8" weighs 3 pounds per square foot, so 144 pounds per sheet times 2 sheets per bundle equals 288 pounds. Carried by 2 guys equals 144 pounds each. No wonder my back snapped when the dork lifted the back of the bundle the wrong way.
i appreciate all the feedback on roof and other things.
the oldest pic i can find via google maps street view is from 2008, and it shows a normal height van in front of the same door:
looking at the parking spaces in front of the building, and the slope of the ground to the right of that door, it's pretty obvious that they filled a loading dock. but why aren't the two doors at the same elevation? seems like maybe it wasn't planned very well.
The property has a Plymouth address, but it's located in Salem Township, Washtenaw County. I will spend my first day of retirement chasing whatever property history info i can get from the township and the county.
I can't exactly tell from the pics, but I suspect the grade from the road pitches toward the building. Therefore the loading docks were eliminated because the building flooded every time it rained.
The doors are different heights for one of 2 reasons... either the builder got a deal on a couple of doors that weren't exactly the same size, or casket delivery trucks are a little bit higher than standard trucks.
My $0.02.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Is the floor built up by one door vs the other? I'd guess the original (lower) door was too low for more modern transports and they put in a second (higher) door.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Is the floor built up by one door vs the other? I'd guess the original (lower) door was too low for more modern transports and they put in a second (higher) door.
the floor is built up toward the higher of the two doors.
11GTCS said:In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Not an architect, commercial HVAC so have been on the roof of a building or three. That appears to be a gypsum panel roof, those were a thing in the late 1950's - early 1960's. About 2 inches thick and apparently met code at that point in time for supporting the roof load over the span of the bar joists (4 feet?) I think the panels had a sheet metal frame around the perimeter to hold the gypsum. So yeah, basically a 2" thick sheet rock roof in those areas. It's fine if you have an intact roof membrane above and don't plan on putting any additional weight on it.
I've been Googling and I think 11GTCS is right, it's a gypsum roof. If that's correct then why are there sections of conventional steel decking? Did the deck get saturated before the membrane roof was installed and they had to replace some of the deck? In the real estate ad I see the same two discoloured roof areas I mentioned earlier in photos 31 and 49. But those also appear to be before and after the new membrane installation. Why the staining? Someone suggested a friend who's a roofing consultant/contractor. I might consider paying for an inspection by a pro.
The loopnet listing has a map option and that map (undated map) shows this aerial photo. I think this will help you select the roof areas that should be inspected closer.
yes, i believe the roof has been repaired at least a couple times, as there is what we will call gypsum (est. 80%), corrugated steel (est 15%), and plywood (est. 5%) visible from inside.
it is by no means perfect, and i will pay for all inspections and walk away if the numbers don't work for me. having said that, it is located in an area which is currently rural but development is slowly encroaching. I think it's an ideal location for some kind of storage business, as there are McMansions on 2+ acre lots popping up with no pole barns. and we know how Murricans are about keeping E36 M3 they should throw away.
SV reX said:I can't exactly tell from the pics, but I suspect the grade from the road pitches toward the building. Therefore the loading docks were eliminated because the building flooded every time it rained.
elevation increases slightly from road to building, and the truck well (where the trailer wheels would be) would have been below slab level. the floor is all one level throughout the building, with the exception of the up-slope (added) toward the far right (front view) door.
discolored areas:
again, i appreciate all the feedback. i might make a lowball offer, hoping they don't know what they gots, to get it on contract with contingencies for all the inspections. first, i will see what i can dig up at the township and county offices.
I was playing around... I found some old Real Estate listings (like realty.com) showing that on Sept 19, 2023 (7 months ago) it went on the market for a big round number. As of recently it is 3 less than that number.
From those listings I got the correct parcel number needed to search Washtenaw County. It is held in a living trust in the unique name of this guy and his obit from 2003. Nothing else in the county is owned by him or his sons.
More playing brought this...what's happening in the neighborhood?
Jan 24,2022 (2 years and 2 months ago) all the red sold for $1,235,000. Buyer/owner is Salem Cats LLC. Searching Salem Cats LLC brought up nothing other than the attorney the filed for the LLC but I did not find names of any officers of the corp.
Salem Cats owns nothing else in the county.
In reply to John Welsh :
The sounds like a typical LLC or LLP purchase. Part of the "Limited" thing is to only own a single property to insulate it other properties the shareholders may own in other holdings. The upper management peeps in my company used to do that as the guys who started the company liked to own the buildings we worked in. They may have development plans... or they may have bought it as an easy place to park some cash as an investment, hoping the value increases as the aforementioned development-creep gets closer to the area.
As far as the corrugated roof section, it may be a replacement or it may have been installed under the couple of RTUs I can see from satellite views as they knew there would be additional weight there from the equipment as well as snow-drift loads. My gut says the de-laminating gypsum panels are scary AF and may mean a serious roof replacement project is in the near future, but my gut also tends to be overly paranoid. Part of me also wonders if the building owner(s) may have sued the grow-company for damages their operation caused to the building.
I wonder if it is possible to find and speak with the previous tenant, grow operation? How was their building experience?
I think (I don't know) that a grow operation uses a lot of water. This building is on a well so free water would seem to be a big plus. But, quality and quantity of water could have also been a problem for them.
Maybe Historic Aerials might help, too? Dated images at least
I'm vaguely remembering coming across gypsum roof panels once or twice, but I honestly don't know anything about them. If that what you've got, I'm clueless.
I do have a lot of experience with gypsum wall panels and if the humidity was as high as you think, it would be cause for concern for me. Gypsum doesn't usually like water.
However there are gypsum fiber reinforced panels now used for exterior sheathing (DensGlass). They are a fiberglass mat reinforced gypsum panel which is pretty awesome.
More research is betterer.
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH
I'm sorry, I didn't really notice this thread until now.
I cannot urge you strongly enough to have that roof reviewed by a structural engineer before you put in a bid.
That looks to me like an old U S Gypsum system called Pyrofill, which is constructed with metal T-bars about 24" on center. Sheets of formboard, rather like homasote, are placed into the t-bars, then the whole thing is filled with gypsum to a depth of a couple inches.
It's pretty fireproof...
...but it is also very intolerant of getting wet. The gypsum goes to mush and loses structural integrity.
I think you're seeing sheets of the formboard hanging down because of the previous humidity, which left the gypsum exposed to it as well. It could be compromised structurally. Plus, if they just put a new roof on it, the old one may have been leaking.
If the building is value priced and exactly where / what you need, spend $1000 to have a structural engineer review it in the field before you make an offer.
[edit] You can still get patching compound called SecuRock Gypsum-concrete for localized damage, but it's not easy to add rooftop equipment or other loads to the system.
In reply to Duke :
Good historic info. If this roof got soaked from humidity in a grow operation it could be really bad. Definitely one to ask a roof consultant (of a certain age) about.
In reply to Duke :
thanks for the info and the cross-section drawing. what is hanging down is not nearly 1" thick, to me it looks more like 1/8" thick or less, which is why i referred to it as "paper".
the ad says the building was built in 1979. Perhaps an addition was added at that time, or perhaps it changed ownership and that's where the documentation starts. But the listing agent sent us a well and septic inspection dated 1955, so now the comment someone made on page 1 about gypsum roofing being popular in the 1950s and 1960s makes more sense.
Salem Township has been fairly anti-development over the years. I think they have a statute (is that the right word?) that if you buy a piece of land big enough to split, you can't split it for something like 5 years. I'm guessing the LLC bought the surrounding land with a vision toward future McMansion "country subdivision" development, and maybe couldn't (or chose not to) reach a deal with the building owner for this particular parcel. When that development happens, a warehouse for materials and equipment could be a big benefit to the developer. then again, maybe it's a SuperFund site and I just don't know it yet.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
The board is not always 1", and the same system was used with temporary form work that was totally removed, as well.
It definitely looks like gypsum deck to me, which is NOT tolerant of water. I would have it looked at by a structural engineer, not just a building inspector.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
I agree with Duke. A building inspector is not much help on this. You want a structural engineer.
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