Short shifters!
Short shifters!
Weird thing for me on the street (as opposed to the track, where manuals always rock), is that I like to pick my cruising speed, and maintain it. I usually pick 75mph, and tickle the thottle to keep it at 75, whether the Interstates here are flat or hilly or curved. It seems that a lot of the folks who think they're going faster than I slow down about 5-10mph on the uphills. I never understood this, until I drove my mom's old 2000 Olds Cutlass through here a few years ago. The slushbox just wouldn't maintain my speed with a slight throttle adjustment. I had to jump on it hard enough to make it "kickdown" going uphill. Ugh. For trucks (spelled "tow vehicles"), I could put up with that BMW E36...but not in a regular passenger car.
There's other reasons people should drive a manual..I've been telling my college girl daughter that if she learns to drive one, she'll never be stranded when her "friends" have too much to drink..
The other weird thing is that I've been teaching SWMBO how to drive a manual simply because one of her sisters can do so..and she's still got some sibling rivalry going on...
TJ wrote: Short shifters!
LOL! The black C has a short-shift kit, but the thing is a cable shifter and I think I kind of stretched `em a lil bit on the touring days at the Mitty last weekend..
Good thing it's got enough torque where I won't have to shift very much at the autocross this Sunday...
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/1726761030.html
This made me laugh. Lowballers welcome? Makes me very wary.
Kia_racer wrote: http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/1726761030.html This made me laugh. Lowballers welcome? Makes me very wary.
It also said you could call 24 hours a day...who is gonna call at 3 am and listen to the guy scream because someone posted his car on the net for sale?
friedgreencorrado wrote: I never understood this, until I drove my mom's old 2000 Olds Cutlass through here a few years ago. The slushbox just wouldn't maintain my speed with a slight throttle adjustment. I had to jump on it hard enough to make it "kickdown" going uphill. Ugh. For trucks (spelled "tow vehicles"), I could put up with that BMW E36...but not in a regular passenger car.
My BMW doesn't do that. neither did any of my musclecars, most of which had lock-up torque converters that have no slip above a certain rpm.
Again, it seems like even supposedly knowledgeable car guys equate ALL automatics to their parents Buick, that was tuned for smoothness and luxury, and not for performance.
turboswede wrote: Sorry Chris, we didn't mean to question you. Of course you're right, you're right about everything, always. Please, Chris, don't smite us with your larger than average brain!
Do you have more experience in this? Do you act like this to everyone who has more experience in anything than you have? If you make a stupid statment and someone with more expereince than you corrects it or questions it, do you always say, "I don't care what the facts are, my opinion is set in stone and I'm not going to listen to you. Nyahh, nyahh, nyahh!"
But hey, opinion is way more important than learing anything, isn't it?
I'm just returning the favor.
Sorry, people make blanket statements that are wrong, you're gonna get called out on it. Sorry you can't handle that.
I'm not talking about preferences, merely the statements of fact, and assumptions derived from that that you're basing the opinions ON.
Funny thing, I'll bet you don't even know what my opinion actually is...
turboswede wrote: How about we all just leave it like this: People should learn to drive a manual, it is a skill that at the very least could be life saving and at the very least helps people understand what their vehicle is doing and what they are doing behind the wheel. Whatever you choose to drive, for whatever reason, you need to be aware of the potential drawbacks for each choice. Weigh those drawbacks and choose what is right for you and your situation.
Completely agreed. The problem is in the facts and the knowledge, and if you don't have all the info you can't make an informed decision. In ANYTHING.
Ok...so I'm curious what it takes to make a functional (as in I can tolerate driving it) automatic transmission.
I'll throw out an example case for argument: My '77 Chevy truck. It has a (presumably) TH350 in it now with no overdrive or lockup converter. This, very possibly DID come in someone's buick (you know what I mean).
I'd just as soon throw a 700R4 (or even 2004R...also Buickey) in there to get the benefits of Overdrive and a Lockup converter. So if I pick up a junkyard/used 700R4 and bring it to the local auto transmission shop or a rebuild/refresh...what do I tell them to get a good driving transmission when I'm done?
I want it to bark the tires into second on heavy acceleration and I want it to last forever .
Clem
Chris_V wrote:friedgreencorrado wrote: I never understood this, until I drove my mom's old 2000 Olds Cutlass through here a few years ago. The slushbox just wouldn't maintain my speed with a slight throttle adjustment. I had to jump on it hard enough to make it "kickdown" going uphill. Ugh. For trucks (spelled "tow vehicles"), I could put up with that BMW E36...but not in a regular passenger car.My BMW doesn't do that. neither did any of my musclecars, most of which had lock-up torque converters that have no slip above a certain rpm. Again, it seems like even supposedly knowledgeable car guys equate ALL automatics to their parents Buick, that was tuned for smoothness and luxury, and not for performance.
Point taken. And I shoulda known better than to compare a GM-built cost shaving "appliance" to something designed by some engineers who actually care about how a car will perform in traffic.
Now who's making assumptions?
Huh, the newer BMW 745 that I drove from Modesto to San Francisco and back, didn't impress me at all. Automatic was certainly better than the old 3/4-speeds we all grew up with, but it was still confused at times and overall, the car was just not that impressive. I know that it was more of a luxo-touring car compared to the smaller 3 and 5 series, but even in Sport mode, I just didn't see what all the fuss was about.
Girlfriend's Highlander has a 3-speed with overdrive and it also is frustrating at times, but it isn't my car so I just blob along with the rest of the Toyota driving public in it (the difference being that I stay out of people's way, unlike SOME Toyota drivers I could mention, heh) and with the overdrive it isn't horrible on gas for a grass/gravel "SUV"
The Miata I rented several times with an automatic was great fun once I adjusted to the slight delay in the time between hitting the steering wheel buttons for the shifter and when it actually shifted. Would have been a ton more fun with a manual.
The Sebring I recently rented on vacation was a miserable piece of crap all around and the automatic didn't help things at all.
The Plymouth Sundance Turbo I built with a modified automatic was great on the autocross course with left-foot braking and away from the lights, but on the freeway it droned away in third gear and ate gas like the Klumps at a buffet.
I'd have still preferred manuals over the automatics, but that is a PERSONAL choice. Yes they can suck in traffic if your clutch is too heavy, but again that is a personal choice we make. Riding a bike in traffic isn't any fun either, but many still do it for their own reasons. We can all debate this over and over and over again until our fingers bleed, but in the end no one will win. Can we just drop this and move on with our lives or do we have to stroke your ego and tell you that you're right so you can be satisfied?
Don't you have a V8 to put in a Falcon or something?
ClemSparks wrote: Ok...so I'm curious what it takes to make a functional (as in I can tolerate driving it) automatic transmission.
It depends on what you consider "tolerable".
A torque converter matched to the engine's torque curve, a manual valve body, and a ratcheting shifter are mandatory IMO.
If you're racing, add a RPM-activated solenoid shifter to the mix. Yes, we've gone back to being "fully automatic", but changing resistors beats the hell out of pulling the governor out and screwing with weights and springs.
So it happened again yesterday.
I had the car listed on CL for trade but I went ahead and put a price on it, because otherwise I'd just get 50 emails asking how much I wanted for it.
I'm sure I stated plainly in the ad that it was a 5 speed (afterall...that's its biggest selling point).
A kid calls and asks to come see it. I can tell he's young (complete lack of good phone manners among other things). After hanging up it occurred to me that I should probably have emphasized that the car has a 5 speed.
The kid and his friend show up and the FIRST thing he says is "It's a stick?!"
Oh boy...here we go again.
His friend told him it was worth learning to drive a stick for this car. He was more concerned about what it would take to swap it over to an Auto.
I told him flat out: "If you don't want a 5 speed...you really shouldn't buy this car. There are too many of them out there with autos in them from the factory."
Some folks seriously just don't understand that the fact this car has a 5 speed makes the car.
Clem
For me, it's about the type of vehicle.
For anything that has a motor that will actually rev out, or doesn't have much torque, a stickshift makes it a lot more fun to drive as you can eek out every last drop of performance of the motor.
For a low-rpm, high torque motor (like a diesel), I have no issue with an automatic. For trucks, I don't understand why anyone would ever buy a stickshift (other than those that remember the days when autos were considerably less reliable for towing, and they just need to stop living in the past, lol).
The exception to this so far has been my 5.0. Motor doesn't rev that high (done by 5k rpm), has plenty of torque, but swapping out the auto for a 5-speed totally woke that car up. I'm guessing that the stock 2.73s were counteracting the 5 liters of fury and making it act torqueless.
ReverendDexter wrote: For me, it's about the type of vehicle. For anything that has a motor that will actually rev out, or doesn't have much torque, a stickshift makes it a lot more fun to drive as you can eek out every last drop of performance of the motor. For a low-rpm, high torque motor (like a diesel), I have no issue with an automatic.
Ex-friggin-actly.
At some point, the engine's powerband gets to be where you're spending as much time shifting as you are accelerating. And that's tedious to drive. And slow.
This is why I don't hardly ever use 1st gear in my VW. It accelerates acceptably well starting in Second, without having to kill the clutch to get moving. And that's one less shift to have to worry about. (It'll get moving in Third, too, but Second is more pleasant)
Of course, it's geared so short and tight that I've nearly needed fourth gear at a rallycross. Third is wound out at 50...
For trucks, I don't understand why anyone would ever buy a stickshift (other than those that remember the days when autos were considerably less reliable for towing, and they just need to stop living in the past, lol).
I have one that I thought of today, as I drove the shop truck. When autos get old, the torque converters can leak down over time. We're talking weeks here, but many trucks do get used that sporadically. (Why yes, the shop truck will leave a puddle of ATF if it sits for more than four weeks)
By the way. On May 5th I said:
I drove a '70 Road Runner with a 440/833 today.
Today, I took this same vehicle and hacked a big hole in the floor. You need to do that when you are installing a Tremec.
It has much shorter gears in the rearend, too. And it ain't only 440ci anymore, and it has awesome heads and a seriously lumpy roller cam... We'll see how it drives, should be a couple more weeks.
PS - Yes, this is a "my job is cool sometimes" post.
Oh man! You just killed the resale value.
The only reason I don't feel bad is that it was a 318/Torqueflite car. VIN says 318 and the shifter hump was decidedly non-OEM in fitment. Well, it certainly explained the 7 1/4 rearend, anyway. (Don't worry. Diff duties are now sponsored by the numbers 6 and 0)
It's not as bad as, say, the guy in Nevada with a Sparks Yellow RX-7 (build date: March 1978) asking about how hard it would be to convert from auto to manual. We're talking about a super desirable color car here, from the first month of production, and an extremely rare option... basically it's probably a one-of-one.
Kia_racer wrote: I don;t understand why people don't learn to drive a manuel trans car. If you can drive a stick you can drive an auto but not vice-versa. They should teach it drivers-ed.
I learned to drive a stick in drivers ed in high school. It was on a simulator you sat in and a movie played on the screen, there were like 12 simulators in the room. This was in 1986, and the stick was a three on the tree! I wonder how many of my classmates ever had the opportunity to drive one of those, I sure haven't but it helped me understand how to drive a manual when I did.
mattmacklind wrote:Kia_racer wrote: I don;t understand why people don't learn to drive a manuel trans car. If you can drive a stick you can drive an auto but not vice-versa. They should teach it drivers-ed.I learned to drive a stick in drivers ed in high school. It was on a simulator you sat in and a movie played on the screen, there were like 12 simulators in the room. This was in 1986, and the stick was a three on the tree! I wonder how many of my classmates ever had the opportunity to drive one of those, I sure haven't but it helped me understand how to drive a manual when I did.
Fast forward to 2006. We didn't have those. Now of the 20 people I hang out with regularly that my age give or take 5 years, so aged 15-25, three can kind of drive stick, 5 can drive it well, and the rest...
Knurled wrote: The only reason I don't feel bad is that it was a 318/Torqueflite car. VIN says 318 and the shifter hump was decidedly non-OEM in fitment. Well, it certainly explained the 7 1/4 rearend, anyway. (Don't worry. Diff duties are now sponsored by the numbers 6 and 0) It's not as bad as, say, the guy in Nevada with a Sparks Yellow RX-7 (build date: March 1978) asking about how hard it would be to convert from auto to manual. We're talking about a super desirable color car here, from the first month of production, and an extremely rare option... basically it's probably a one-of-one.
Don't sweat it. I hate the correct paint daub, period 1968 air in the tires dudes.
ClemSparks wrote: I wasn't offended by the guy...I just thought it was funny he approached me asking about a car that didn't have a for sale sign in it and then expected me to give him a price, even after I said I wouldn't.
Agreed. Run into this a lot with my fathers 66 Mustang. Seems almost daily someone randomly asks if they could buy it. Then they either ask how much, or lowball, or other semi crazy shenanigans.
I don't think he's ever had a serious inquiry or offer from one of those people that just ask if the car is for sale. It's like they have a fantasy of being given the car merely for asking.
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