It's been getting crazy for a while. IT's also why I went with the Rio for my hobby car. 205/50/15 tires, brakes for $200 and 35+mpg, those low consumable costs are why I went that route instead of a turbo Forte5.
Lee, the gun market is unbelievable.
Mndsm said:In reply to Beer Baron :
What's really funny is, I remember from my brewing day, I loved my unfiltered stuff. Carries over into cask strength whiskeys with single barrel mash bills, bottled in bond and the like. I apparently like things more raw.
Unfiltered =/= Hazy
We don't filter any of our beers. Most of them are quite brite. I just have good equipment and put the time and effort into getting naturally brite beer.
Which is why I got so furious at people wanting me to brew a "hazy" IPA. I would have to resort to gimmick or intentionally mess something up. Hazy would be *less* flavorful (unless I do something like... use a hefeweizen yeast).
People. Ruin. Everything.
That being said, finding people to enjoy things that are on the same wavelength as myself makes things much more enjoyable. Lets me shake off the "rest" a bit easier. I drag race a fwd german import, I still play music with a gibson and a mesa and nothing in between (ever!), I go out and run even though I don't train for anything. Make it about what you like and F the rest.
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said: I go out and run even though I don't train for anything. Make it about what you like and F the rest.
A very good point. I've gotten back into bicycling as an adult, but refuse to ride the roads around here (too narrow, hilly, and dangerous), so I picked up a BMX cruiser to hit local bike trails with. Who cares if I am not as fast or not able to ride as far as everyone on a multi-speed bike, my main goal is to get some exercise, and I want to do it in the most fun way I can think of.
dropstep said:RC rock crawlers are the same way. I wasn't looking to comp crawl this time but man the elitists hate redcat. I bought into the hype and went axial and was disappointed . They suck out of the box but axial fanboys will spend another 3-400 on upgrades and still claim it's the best!
I picked up a bottom of the line $110 Red Cat (Danchee Ridgerock) and it is awesome. I also have two WLToys Chinesium R/Cs that I love. I've been wanting to pick up a few of the C24 crawlers as well. The "cheap crap" R/Cs are a lot of fun in my opinion, even if I do end up fixing them often.
I have a ton of fun with my 20 year old RadioShack 4x4 with Hi/Lo switch. Nothing proportional, but it is a tank offroad. I don't need a $$$ Traxxas TRX to have fun (but dat Bronco body, mmm).
Beer Baron said:Yet people want "hazy" IPA.
My answer to this was, "FINE! YOU WANT HAZY? YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAZY?!? berkeleyING HEFEWEIZEN! HAVE AN IPA WITH HEFEWEIZEN YEAST!"
Keeping the topic of this thread in mind, please explain this to me like I'm 5. If people like how so-called hazy-IPA's generally taste compared to typical IPA flavor profiles, and the designation makes it easy to differentiate from typical IPA's, what's so wrong/bad about that?
In reply to ddavidv :
One of the reasons I like my model car club is the guys are unbelievably friendly and supportive. Many of them scratch build and machine everything abs are regularly in magazines for the last God knows how many years but they are genuinely excited to check out everything we all bring in each month and are always happy to offer advice and help.
Reading Beer Baron on the subject of beer reminds me of reading Alfadriver on the subject of engine tuning. They both do it for a living and know about the subtleties and nuances than I ever will. I absolutely appreciate the years of work they put into learning their respective crafts.
Driven5 said:Beer Baron said:Yet people want "hazy" IPA.
My answer to this was, "FINE! YOU WANT HAZY? YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAZY?!? berkeleyING HEFEWEIZEN! HAVE AN IPA WITH HEFEWEIZEN YEAST!"
Keeping the topic of this thread in mind, please explain this to me like I'm 5. If people like how so-called hazy-IPA's generally taste, and the designation makes it easy to differentiate from typical IPA flavor profiles, what's so wrong/bad about that?
The haze does not add any flavor to the beer. It's entirely visual and usually a sign of cutting corners or playing games.
I can make a beer that has the same flavor profile as a "hazy" beer that is complete clear. If you drank them side-by-side, you would not be able to tell the difference. More likely, you'd prefer the clear version because the texture was more pleasant. But it's not hazy, and the only thing people care about with these beers is the haze, not the flavor.
The original "hazy" IPA's from New England were hazy because they were done by small breweries using mediocre equipment (frequently repurposed dairy tanks) and rushing to package their beers because of demand. The result was that a lot of sediment would remain in suspension, and the beers would be hazy. Once they got good equipment, the beers stopped being hazy.
But people came to associate the haze with that flavor profile, and began judging the quality of beer on the haze level, not the flavor.
If you have good brewing equipment, the beer naturally comes out bright and clear. To get it "hazy" you have to resort to playing games with the beer. Usually adding something purely to get haze that does not add to or even detracts from the flavor. Many breweries will do things like just stirring in baking flour. Frequently breweries just add more and more and more hops. These extra hops don't add any flavor. There is a ceiling past which you can't extract any more oils (aroma) from the hops. Instead, what you get is a bunch of resinous hop particles floating in suspension. It gives the beer a gritty texture. If you drink a full pint of a beer like this the chunks will stick to your teeth and coat the back of your throat. It's pretty gross.
I refuse to do bullE36 M3 to my beers that detracts from their flavor and drinkability purely to get them to be "hazy". For me to get my beer to be hazy, I have to use yeast strains like hefeweizen that have different properties. The result was actually a really good and unique beer that *looks* like what people are asking for, but is actually different in a weird way. But it's cool, because we turned it into a giant penis joke. Hefeweizen yeast lends a banana flavor. So we called it "Hammock"... aka "Banana Hammock", and it's 6.9% abv.
It's like... if someone designed great racecar chassis, but had a mediocre welder that left really thick welds - they did a solid job with it, but the welds were just thick. Then you started copying that geometry, but using a nicer welder that gave small, clean welds. But then consumers saw the welds weren't as thick, and so thought the frame would be weaker. They want those thick welds. So manufacturers started competing on who could make the thickest welds possible, even if they were drippy and sloppy. I refuse to do E36 M3ty welds, so I'm resorting to using a different type of welding.
Edit: Better, direct analogy - It's like a coffee company started up making great coffee, but had mediocre homemade equipment that let a bunch of the grinds through into each cup. People started thinking "More grounds in coffee means better coffee," and everyone started competing over who could brew coffee with the most grounds floating in it, even though that isn't what made that coffee so good. So you start a coffee shop making great coffee with good equipment, and customers are complaining because there aren't a bunch of grounds in their cup.
Beer Baron said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Basically I thought it would be fun to get one of those little 1 gallon kits and make a stout with as little hops as possible and maybe try to capture the smokiness of a good Islay Scotch somehow, mixes 2 things I love.
But reading up you have people saying stuff like " ....you gotta add a bunch of hops to stouts so you can get a decent flavor, gotta mask the stoutness somehow"
In this situation, they're partially right, and partially wrong, but don't understand the what and why. You could make a beer that does what you want without much trouble (although it would probably require more than just modifying an off-the-shelf 1-gallon kit), but they don't know enough about brewing to tell you how. It's the homebrew equivalent of someone saying you need lowering springs to make a car handle well.
So... flavor science... for a beer to be balanced, you generally want to have a flavor irritant to balance out residual malt sweetness. Most often, this is bitterness from hops, but you could use sour or astringent. The problem with so many IPAs is that they go overboard on the bitterness and end up with an unbalanced beer.
It's like... salt or vinegar. Salt or vinegar are integral flavor components in a lot of food. But if you put too much in, it's going to be gross.
A stout will tend to have a lot more residual malt body and sweetness and does require more bitterness to balance that. At my brewery, our stout is handily our most bitter beer. When I worked at North Coast, Old Rasputin was far and away the most bitter beer. Guinness is more bitter than Sierra Nevada Pale.
However, that still means less hops than an IPA. Hops are much more efficient at bittering than they are at getting aroma (another reason why so many IPA's suck, because brewers end up *thinking* they're getting aroma, when they're really getting bitterness). So even though our stout is more bitter than our IPA, it still only uses about 1/3 the hops of the IPA (and about 1/2 the hops of our lager).
Now, if you really wanted to brew a dark, smokey beer with no or fewer hops, you could, but would need to make some changes. You could get away with less hops, but you'd want to use a yeast strain that leaves less fermentable sugars. Probably also adjust the malt bill a touch. You could easily make it unhopped by substituting spruce or cedar tips (which will provide astringency) and maybe heather (if you want nice aroma). Of course, now you're ending up with something more like a dark Scotch ale than an Irish or Burton-upon-Trent style Stout. Not that this would be bad. It would be quite good, but I wouldn't label it a "Stout".
This would actually work quite well if you want to lean in the "Islay Scotch" direction. That smoke will serve as a flavor irritant to balance things, but you will also want to control residual sweetness so the beer isn't cloying and doesn't stick the smoke to the inside of your mouth.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
In reply to Beer Baron :
"What are those things floating in the beer?"
"Those are hops."
" *sigh* What are those things hopping in the beer?"
I hate this trend. It shows a complete misunderstanding of hop utilization. I understand wanting to maximize hop aroma. I have several beers where I do that. But by the time you get floaties, you're gone well past the point where you're able to extract any more aromatics from the hops and are literally just ending up with undissolved hop matter for the sake of throwing in more hops so that you can spend more money to have less beer.
Yet people want "hazy" IPA.
My answer to this was, "FINE! YOU WANT HAZY? YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAZY?!? berkeleyING HEFEWEIZEN! HAVE AN IPA WITH HEFEWEIZEN YEAST!"
All of this makes total sense to me and I will definitely PM you.
I'm not apposed to scotch ales either, ive liked most I've tried.
In reply to Beer Baron :
It was a quote from an episode of Three's Company. Mr Roper brewed his first batch of beer and Mrs. Roper was wondering about the things hopping in the beer.
Some sleuthing shows that the episode was probably Days of Beer and Weeds, which aired... um... two weeks before I was born. Must've seen it in a rerun 
But it shows that this sort of thing apparently has been going on for over 33 years.
(I like hefewiesens, because they taste nice to me, odd that)
Beer Baron said:It's like... if someone designed great racecar chassis, but had a mediocre welder that left really thick welds - they did a solid job with it, but the welds were just thick. Then you started copying that geometry, but using a nicer welder that gave small, clean welds. But then consumers saw the welds weren't as thick, and so thought the frame would be weaker. They want those thick welds. So manufacturers started competing on who could make the thickest welds possible, even if they were drippy and sloppy. I refuse to do E36 M3ty welds, so I'm resorting to using a different type of welding.
Heh. You've no idea how accurate this assessment is.
in Pro Stock in the 70s, making power required radical surgery to stock cylinder head castings. We're talking heads that are half epoxy, half air, and have pieces of the ports bolted to the outside. One engine builder focused more on airflow quality, and combustion quality, instead of just "big ports". The story is, a guy paid $25k or somesuch for a pair of heads, and instantly went from not qualifying to winning. Then he pulled the valve covers off in the pits and was FURIOUS because his nice expensive heads didn't have ten pounds of weld rod added to them. Didn't care that he was now immensely faster, he felt embarassed by his stock looking parts, like he didn't get his money's worth.
edit: 'kay, I got the gist down but a lot of details wrong. Story is here from the Sept 1st 1998 post "Spinning Heads, The Truth...."
The best advice I can give is to find people you can connect with outside of the internet or a for-sale listing. I've bought & sold plenty of things below market with people I have a relationship with. The same people also don't hesitate to lend me a tool or offer advice when I need help. I've also received free parts via the GRM forum...so the automotive hobby can be pretty great sometimes.
I suspect pinball machines probably attract a certain income segment...not necessarily hobbyists, but more customers/enthusiasts. The kind of people that have the space (or $) for a toy (or multiple) that takes up +15 sq ft of floor space probably have a game room with a pool table, golden tee, and a galaga machine (my brother in law). I don't even want to know what it costs to maintain/repair that equipment if you're paying someone. As long as there are people who are willing/able to just pay whatever $$ is necessarily to get what they want for convenience sake...values will get skewed. Just look at BaT.
Prices for everything seemed to take a big jump w/the pandemic. I'd like to think it's temporary...and for some things it will be. I've managed to buy two mountain bikes since the pandemic started for very good pre-pandemic prices. I was persistent (obsessed) about checking online ads and was first to respond and commit to showing up ASAP. With that said, I also felt a little guilty about selling the kiddo's bike for the same amount I paid for it (used) 5 years ago...but it was still a good deal and sold easily. I could have sold it for more if I felt like being a shiny happy person. I guess the point is, most of us are paying higher prices for the stuff we're buying, so selling things at a high price doesn't necessarily make you a jerk. I don't sell stuff for profit, but I do sell my unused hobby stuff to pay for newer or different gear.
Side-note...I like the brewing idea. I'm not sure if I'm detail oriented enough for that...but I'd like to start.
Hoondavan said:Side-note...I like the brewing idea. I'm not sure if I'm detail oriented enough for that...but I'd like to start.
Making beer is easy. Humans discovered it entirely by accident.
Making good beer takes some work. Really only two critical components though: sanitation and temperature control. I can provide some stooopid easy homebrew hacks to simplify those.
Making consistent beer is difficult. Getting something that tastes the same every time. But... that's entirely unnecessary for homebrewing. If a batch of homebrew tastes good, who cares if it doesn't taste exactly the same as the last batch?
You seriously don't need to be any more detail oriented than is necessary to install a new cylinder head gasket and torque all the bolts down the proper amount in the right order.
In reply to literally every post Beer Baron has made in this thread :
Whoa.
I feel smarter for being here.
iansane said:In reply to literally every post Beer Baron has made in this thread :
Whoa.
I feel smarter for being here.
The man is a treasure.
I had no idea on hazy ipas. I just knew I enjoy those and New England IPAs. So whenever I see a hazy IPA I am willing to try it.
Personally I find BMX the least dickish of types of biking but generally in real life I find most cyclist to be a fairly welcoming bunch.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
As long as it's not vintage BMX....
Saron81 said:In reply to 93EXCivic :
As long as it's not vintage BMX....
True. New school guys are pretty supporting. The mid and old school guys are.....less savory. I've never had bad luck at my lbs.
93EXCivic said:I had no idea on hazy ipas. I just knew I enjoy those and New England IPAs. So whenever I see a hazy IPA I am willing to try it.
And like... I get it, because I feel a similar way on the flavor profile. I am 100% down with the idea of an IPA with less bitterness that focuses on juicy, fruity hop aromas. In my experience, that's what people who like New England IPA are looking for.
The haze is almost completely separate from that though.
So we play marketing games and refer to our IPA as an "Unfiltered IPA", because it's got that sort of moderate bitterness and juicy, fruity aroma... but it's clear. Never mind that we don't filter any of our beers.
In reply to Beer Baron :
I greatly appreciate your insights. Numerous of your recent posts have helped us to branch out more with beer types we normally overlook, at least when we're at places we know have quality brewing. Your comments on hazy's makes sense from a fundamental technical standpoint. But from a practical standpoint, what reasonably predictable alternative is there for consumers who enjoy the typical hazy flavor profile, but not the typical IPA flavor profile?
Driven5 said:In reply to Beer Baron :
I greatly appreciate your insights. Numerous of your recent posts have helped us to branch out more with beer types we normally overlook, at least when we're at places we know have quality brewing. Your comments on hazy's makes sense from a fundamental technical standpoint. But from a practical standpoint, what reasonably predictable alternative is there for consumers who enjoy the typical hazy flavor profile, but not the typical IPA flavor profile?
I'd say look for other flavor descriptors that lean in that direction. Things *associated* with hazy IPAs other than the haze - fruity, juicy, tropical, aromatic, and/or some mention of restraint/balance/limited bitterness. Something that gives the indication they cared more about the aroma than the bitterness, and that they're not trying to be EXTREME.
Honestly, this is why I rarely drink IPAs when I go out. There are too many of them. A bar will have a dozen IPAs on a menu, and I'll probably like 2 of them.
I feel on par with OP. Lots of people that suck the fun out of things. That's why I stick to hobbies I can enjoy with close friends that share a similar passion (crapcan endurance racing) or stuff I can do with my kids/significant other like camping, fishing, biking, overlanding, etc.
The overland forums and pages are insufferable though. Also I once went out in Eastern Sierras with an Overlanding club. It was the worst experience ever. It was just a bunch of dudes who spent $40k on accessories stopping every 10 minutes to snap content for their instagram pages with zero actual overlanding being done. Plus people would get hot headed when you hooned in the least bit. The great thing about off-roading and camping - you don't need other shiny happy people to do it.
I do miss forums as they always seemed to foster great communities for the most part for insight and help into things. Of course there were outliers but my memories of LS1 forums, S197 forums, Honda forums, video game forums, hacking forums, etc were always great. The depature to Facebook groups has led to a lot of narcissism and gate keeping in hobbies IMO.
Now if I have a question, I just ask YouTube if I don't think GRM can answer.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
Grm can't answer? I'm not sure I understand those words.
Beer Baron said:It's like... if someone designed great racecar chassis, but had a mediocre welder that left really thick welds - they did a solid job with it, but the welds were just thick. Then you started copying that geometry, but using a nicer welder that gave small, clean welds. But then consumers saw the welds weren't as thick, and so thought the frame would be weaker. They want those thick welds. So manufacturers started competing on who could make the thickest welds possible, even if they were drippy and sloppy. I refuse to do E36 M3ty welds, so I'm resorting to using a different type of welding.
In my past life, I used to work in CNC work around performance parts like Cylinder Heads & Blocks.. You wouldn't believe (Narrator: you totally would) the amount of parts people complained about because they "didn't look CNC-enough." What the customer was saying was that the step-over (i.e., the steps that the round tool takes to profile the part) were too fine and the finish didn't look rough enough to immediately scream CNC to them. Basically, parts coming off the machine looked too good.
The solution here is easy, just increase the step-overs so the tool takes less passes. That conveniently reduces the run time on the machine, increasing your profit AND leads to a happier customer. Win-win, eh?
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