Read this nonsense...someone wants to tax sanctioned racing

I bet she talks on a cell phone while she drives. Yeah, how about we spend some money putting an end to that?

Almighty government, save us from ourselves!

Jesus. Let's just tax everything to pay for the bubblewrap everyone apparently needs.

Not interested in raising taxes on anything, for any reason. It's like constantly raising a child's allowance whenever it wants something...

By the way, I hate to be the grammar police, but people would take you (and your cause) much much more seriously if you learned spelling, punctuation, and the other fine aspects of the english language.

Oh, and if you don't want to use a period, instead electing for a dash, hit option-dash on your keyboard. "My friend–the street-racer–drives a honda" is correct. "My friend-the street-racer-drives a honda" is not.

Very rarely have I had a close call that involved any type of "street racing". Wish I could say the same about the carelessness I see every single day on the highway. Not young guys in souped up Hondas - but people, particularly young girls, on their bloody cell phones. I am 100% for driver education, in fact it's time that it was mandatory. If you can't respect the privilege you've been given far too easily, fine, it's time to pay for it. How about we start taxing all those distracting hand-held devices? Sure, there are fines now... if you're caught - how about taxing 'em at the source?

It's very sad that a young woman lost her life through someone else's stupidity. But most of the hundred-plus serious auto enthusiasts I know would consider that kind of dangerous behaviour completely unacceptable, not to mention childish.

Neon18 wrote: In reply to Tommy Suddard: Not you-the revenue. Every professional race car drivers knows someone who was killed-they should be happy to support a surcharge to the owners and the revenue that the aftermarket brings in.

Why do you consider the fact that so many professional race drivers have sufferered the loss of their friends as insignificant in the face of your own loss? Are you still claiming that we racers use the deaths of our own loved ones, mentors and inspirations as a "badge of honor"? You insult me personally when you claim such a thing.

Neon18 wrote: NASCAR says it is all about family values

Shove NASCAR. I'll admit that they have a balanced (but restricted) rulebook, which allows 20 cars to compete for the win (rather than the two or three teams that seem to dominate proper motor racing)..but oval track racing is a very specialized skill that has very little to do with operating an automobile on the street. Perhaps we should tax NASCAR fans for believing "driving" is circling around their local Wal-Mart while they search for a parking place?

Neon18 wrote: let Mr. France proove it, along with Izod and any SEMA show-

As far as I have been able to research, Bill Sr. was the only member of that family to have ever actually climbed behind the wheel of a race car, and that was almost 70yrs ago. Bill Jr. and Brian are simply "business school morons" that wish to keep the corporation going. They are not racers. They are marketing people. Of course, J.C.'s recent troubles while "street racing" are very well known. I have no hard evidence upon this subject, but I can say that most real racers are even more upset that the spoiled little rich boy did the deed than the average member of the public.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/jc-france-back-on-track/21306/page1/

Neon18 wrote: just a Highschool girl who had dreams and a bright future-

My own (recently "high school girl") was taught from the time she was 11yrs old that if she made the mistake of climbing into an automobile driven by an idiot twice, I'd send them both to jail.

Neon18 wrote: she didn't sign up for a racing practice on the highway, when she buckled her seat-belt.

How do you know that? From the news article, her boyfriend had a history of this kind of behavior, or at least a jealousy of his "best friend".

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-auto-scscolumn-050210-20100502%2C0%2C7208847.column

excerpt: "Thugh news accounts of the crash did not mention that Will was street racing, Ranyak said she has spoken to witnesses that insist his car was keeping pace with another car, filled with friends of Will and Emily. They were on their way to the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, where Will's best friend, driver Marco Andretti, was competing." end excerpt

What about the first time he did that kind of thing with her in the car? What about the 3rd, or the 5th? Have you never considered that she considered herself "safe" while riding with him? After all, as you yourself has admitted, "Kids don’t really know better until well into their 20’s." (the GRM message board format doesn't really allow me to post a link to your individual message, but it is on Page 1 of this thread, posted @ 6:47p (message board time) on May 2.

BTW: Don't let the "Andretti" name fool you. I will graciously admit that Marco is a much better driver than I am, but as far as his professional career goes, you will not often find racers claiming that his skills approach those of his father & grandfather. That would be as silly as claiming J.C. France has the business acumen of his own grandfather.

I actually disagree with you about young people. The Executive Publisher of this magazine insists that his own teenaged children really understand just how lethal an automobile can be...and furthermore, insists that his own children learn how to actually "control" a vehicle when need be, rather than simply accept the insipid "rules of the road" nonsense provided by most current Drivers' Education programs-and indeed, even to surpass the moronic excuse for (alleged) driving required to allow our youngsters onto the street in this country in the first place. Perhaps it's easier for him than it is for me..my own child is not an enthusiast, but I have been successful at teaching her that unskilled/impatient drivers can kill.

I'm sure you did the best you could to do the same, but unless you have some sort of evidence that you can drive as well as even an amateur race driver, you have NO business blaming US for your unfortunate loss.

Neon18 wrote: We have many street racing deaths in Orlando because we are in the epi-center of the professional racing world.

Please show any study from anyone who has shown that Orlando has a higher rate of street racing deaths than other US cities, or that that death rate is related to the professional racing businesses located in Orlando, or that Orlando is the epicenter of the professional racing world. Seriously, if you can prove any of the three I'd be impressed.

Seriously though, I think I'm responding to a troll. Neon18 is supposed to be Cynthia Ranyak, but why would should she choose Neon18 as a screenname instead of her own name when she's perfectly happy getting tonnes of name recognition? It doesn't make sense.

Bob

friedgreencorrado wrote: I actually disagree with you about young people. The Executive Publisher of this magazine insists that his own teenaged children *really* understand just how lethal an automobile can be...and furthermore, insists that his own children learn how to actually "control" a vehicle when need be, rather than simply accept the insipid "rules of the road" nonsense provided by most current Drivers' Education programs-and indeed, even to surpass the moronic excuse for (alleged) driving required to allow our youngsters onto the street in this country in the first place. Perhaps it's easier for him than it is for me..my own child is not an enthusiast, but I *have* been successful at teaching her that unskilled/impatient drivers can kill.

I know every teenager says this, but yes. We've had it drilled into us since birth, and I've been auto-crossing since 8 years old. That teaches you a lot about street driving, and how to react in bad situations. Supposedly, it will also make me want to street-race, because the evil auto-crossers are hell-bent on killing me.

friedgreencorrado wrote: OTOH, I could support your idea, with one caveat: simple education is not enough. If public money is to be spent on this education, then the results should actually serve the public..if a student cannot perform at a high enough level of proficiency (and since you're worried about their lack of skill "racing", professional race drivers should determine what level of proficiency they *should* achieve..), they should be denied a license to drive. Are you aware that holding their parents to the same standard could revoke millions of drivers' licences nationwide? As an enthusiast (and former amateur racing driver), the prospect of traffic being cut in half is appealing, but when I recall what kind of economic damage that would be done to my nation if half of our population suddenly couldn't go to work, I am absolutely frightened.

I think everyone should be trained like we do it at my job. You get 10 days of driving school, 8hr a day and three road tests. Every two years another road and written test. Not the Mickey Mouse DMV test either, the road tests go about an hour each of city and highway driving with plenty of chances at failure.

Im all for scheduled re-evaluations in order to maintain your driving PRIVILEGES...ahem let me repeat...PRIVILEGES.

And like I said, its a shame someone died, but rationalizing the cause through placing false blame to make yourself feel better doesnt change the truth of the matter - the girl who died made a decision to enter that car and ride with that boy. The blame can be found in that sentence.

Its good that you want to take action, and I think your head is near the right place. But losing a loved one doesnt make you an authority on that which caused their death. My friend died in a car accident in part due to the tires on his car being faulty AND installed incorrectly, the other part was his decision to exceed speed limits. That didnt make his parents physics, automotive repair or tire experts. But they did set up a fund to put one of those totalled cars outside his high schools senior prom to try to keep kids from making careless decisions when it comes to operating a motor vehicle. They didnt go on a emotional warpath to tax the tire companies or the mechanics garages to fund better tire design or better automotive repair training.

No one here is happy to hear that you lost someone. But when someone levies wild claims against something we hold dear in a transparent, and ultimately useless effort to gain some form of posthumous restitution for the death of a loved one, you must expect to get some feedback on the matter.

Considering that Florida is the racing capital of the USA and we have minimal "graduated drivers liscencing", minimal fines (CA crushes street racers on first offence) A 1% SURCHARGE on racing revenue and SEMA aftermarket is not alot of money 1$/100.00. They just opened up a track in Orlando for the racing fanatics to race on-the fees are cheap, to get the kids off the street and on to the tracks.If they wanted to co-sponsor the education, the 1% could go to help out. The Moms in Central Florida who go to schools to talk about these acidents all do it on their own dime-the 1% could gp to them also. I personally don' t accept donations because I am not interested in rehashing the story but the new law without financial backing will not work as well. Auto racing is the most dangerous extreme sport,and the people in the sport should be looking out for the best interest of the kids around them, instead-they are trying to get the kid's market share. Racing for the track is expensive so the average kid brings it to the street....and then the fatalities are minimized.

First of all... You gotta learn some punctuation. My head hurts.

Neon18 wrote: Auto racing is the most dangerous extreme sport,

I've stayed out of this thread because I don't want to upset anyone, but this statement is wrong. Auto Racing has the potential for the most catastrophic injuries when it happens. But I would not consider it as dangerous as boxing, MMA, hockey, football, or lacrosse.

I'm sure your intentions are good, but you are simply wrong. Had I not discovered sanctioned racing at a young age, I very well might have become one of those statistics. Instead, I learned not only what to do in a car, but more importantly, what not to do. I gained a respect for the limitations of cars, and as a result became a much more conservative driver on the road. What you propose will limit access to racing for these youth, which is the wrong answer.

I know more than my share of professional drivers, and for the most part, they drive very sedately on the street, much better and slower than the average Joe.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need better driver training for teenagers, but I think the proper question should be how to implement it and what really are the distractions and influences. I think TV and movies are much worse than racing at projecting this image. Fast and Furious (the world's worse movie?) and other such movies did far more damage than any racing commercial could hope to achieve. If Will's friend had not been Marco Andretti would they even be considering this? Racing is an easy target, and everyone's answer to everything is to throw a tax on it instead of addressing the real problem.

The solution would be for states to require proper driver training. Having your parents teach you to drive is a joke in most cases, as all they do is teach bad habits. Driver training in HS isn't any better. Just like Tim, I take all my nieces and nephews to autocross school. There is no substitute for actually knowing how to drive and vehicle dynamics. How many people do you see on a daily basis driving so far over their heads and vehicle ability that if the slightest thing happened they would have to options other than to wreck? And how many of you that race always leave something on the table to deal with issues that may happen in traffic situations?

As for Marco's commercial being in poor taste, what commercial of any kind isn't these days? They all teach some form of improper behavior. Do we tax them all for their indiscretions? Who receives this money? Is it earmarked or does it go into a basic budget? Who administers the driver training and what does it involve? Is it real training or is it an attempt to brand street racing as evil by showing blood films? These are serious questions that need answering.

I feel for the woman that lost her child, but she needs to look further than what she is for a solution. Until states adopt stricter driver training standards, there is no real solution.

Neon18 wrote: Racing for the track is expensive so the average kid brings it to the street....and then the fatalities are minimized.

Wrong. Fatalities greatly increase on the street versus on the track. On the street, there is the possibility to kill innocent people just driving around, as well. Your tax would make sanctioned racing even more expensive, and further promote street racing.

By the way, I'm typing on my phone, and I still have way better grammar and spelling than you. If you want people to support you, be a little more professional with your writing.

Oh, and an interesting side note, one of the above professional drivers worked the "Hot Summer Nights" thing for Skip Barber a couple of years ago doing right seat work in I think Colbalt SS's. They were to do a couple of autocross laps or something like that, and I think he said that of the thousands of baggy pants kids that he rode with, he could count on one hand the ones that drove even somewhat decently, or for that matter, listened to anything he said. And of course, ALL of those that were decent had autocrossed at least once.

Some of the others had to be escorted off the property for ignoring every rule they had.

If I ever have a kid, and Maury proves it's mine, I hope he turns out like Tommy.

Whenever I hear one of these stories where someone feels like they need to blame someone else for their decisions I am reminded of the women who blamed her husbands death on a Susquahana Hat

Neon18 wrote: Auto racing is the most dangerous extreme sport,and the people in the sport should be looking out for the best interest of the kids around them, instead-they are trying to get the kid's market share.

You're missing the point. I hang out with enthusiasts. None of `the kids around me' street race. The ones with a serious interest in the sport treat the automobile with respect, and understand that the street is not a proper venue for competition. The problem is with the kids that don't understand the dedication and humility required to participate in the sport. "Street racing" has nothing to do with real racing. Yes, they both involve automobiles, but what you're proposing is like taxing baseball players to pay for football injuries simply because both activities require a "ball".

Neon18 wrote: Racing for the track is expensive so the average kid brings it to the street....

Then the "average kid" doesn't need to be anywhere around an automobile until they understand the responsibility and potential for danger in one. Why should I be taxed, simply because some other kid's parents weren't able to insure they educated their children correctly?

Neon18 wrote: and then the fatalities are minimized.

I'm sorry, I don't quite know what you mean by this. "Minimized" where? The way you've written that statement, it looks like you are claiming that it actually minimizes street fatalities to allow street racing. I'm fairly sure that's not the meaning you originally meant to convey..

Wally wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: OTOH, I could support your idea, with one caveat: simple education is not enough. If public money is to be spent on this education, then the results should actually serve the public..if a student cannot perform at a high enough level of proficiency (and since you're worried about their lack of skill "racing", professional race drivers should determine what level of proficiency they *should* achieve..), they should be denied a license to drive. Are you aware that holding their parents to the same standard could revoke millions of drivers' licences nationwide? As an enthusiast (and former amateur racing driver), the prospect of traffic being cut in half is appealing, but when I recall what kind of economic damage that would be done to my nation if half of our population suddenly couldn't go to work, I am absolutely frightened.

I think everyone should be trained like we do it at my job. You get 10 days of driving school, 8hr a day and three road tests. Every two years another road and written test. Not the Mickey Mouse DMV test either, the road tests go about an hour each of city and highway driving with plenty of chances at failure.

Bingo! If serious training including the denial of licences for a lack of abliity isn't a good idea, then why do we train truck drivers, train engineers, and airplane pilots?

Neon18 wrote: Auto racing is the most dangerous extreme sport,and the people in the sport should be looking out for the best interest of the kids around them, instead-they are trying to get the kid's market share. Racing for the track is expensive so the average kid brings it to the street....and then the fatalities are minimized.

First of all, there are much more dangerous sports. Horse racing, bull fighting, mountain climbing, etc. Second are you seriously saying street racing is safer then racing on a track!!!! I hope you are not serious.

Neon18 wrote: They just opened up a track in Orlando for the racing fanatics to race on-the fees are cheap, to get the kids off the street and on to the tracks. Racing for the track is expensive so the average kid brings it to the street....and then the fatalities are minimized.

Lady, get your facts straight and also please learn how to form a good argument.

I estimate she will do neither.

Well said.

I think we need to be careful about being unduly harsh with Neon 18. It sounds like she has lost a child. That is a level of grief I have not known in my life and I hope I never will. I think it is not productive or fair for us to sit in judgment and tell her that her daughter was stupid or had a weak moral compass. Everyone of us has made unwise decisions. If we are posting here its because we were fortunate enough to survive and learn from it.

If Neon 18 is still reading, I am truly sorry for your loss. There are too many children dying when they start driving automobiles. I volunteer my time to instruct locally with this effort, http://www.streetsurvival.org/ , to do something to improve the situation. I agree with you that many myths about speed and racing have been propagated and teenagers are susceptible to these. Like these teenagers, I think that some of your assumptions and assertions regarding sanctioned racing are factually wrong. I am sorry that I am not local there in Florida. I would extend an invitation to you to come to some sanctioned events get to know us as a community. The only request would be that come with an open mind. If your aim is reduce the level of dangerous and fatal driving by teenagers, we share that desire. We are can be very strong allies in that cause.

Type Q wrote: If Neon 18 is still reading, I am truly sorry for your loss. There are too many children dying when they start driving automobiles.

Weedin' out the gene pool.... it is not "hard" to drive a car.

Neon18 wrote: (CA crushes street racers on first offence)

Well, I guess that means no recidivism.