Red Bull plane swap stunt.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

And Ferrari's start north of $250K while a Corvette starts at $60K, maybe more of us humans should stop being stupid and figure it out.

My house is only $450K while the same thing in LA would be $2,000,000, maybe more of us humans should stop being stupid and figure it out.

A Luise Vitton purse cost $40K while a plastic bag from the supermarket cost $0-0.05, maybe more of us humans should stop being stupid and figure it out.

Hang on, how did I end up arguing about adverts and prices when I started talking about idiots doing stupid things and getting called out for it.

I need that arguing on the internet meme from the other day!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Ballistic shoots are not to save the plane.  They are so the occupants can survive. 

I've only seen one SR-22 after a ballistic chute deploy; everyone lived but uncomfortably for a long time.

The chute is connected to a roll cage type device which is inside the outer skin of the plane.  As the straps deploy they rip slots through the fuselage, but hey you're not dead.  =~ )

I can't confirm and won't bother looking, but I understand the chute is there because the SR has some bad flat spin characteristics.

There is a bit of a difference between motor in a new Corvette and a 12 cylinder Ferrari motor.

Real estate prices are a different kind of insanity.

Louise Vuitton purses are a lot less than 40K when you buy them from the guy selling from the trunk of his car.

Why didn't they just do it over the ocean? 

pheller said:

Why didn't they just do it over the ocean? 

I would guess due to the potential dangers of anything touching down in water with a parachute attached (plus potential bonus damage to parachuting aircraft from salt water electronics destruction). And unless you do it over international waters, you're still in someone's jurisdiction.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Ballistic shoots are not to save the plane.  They are so the occupants can survive.  The SR22 below has seats mounted basically on shocks so that when the airframe hits the ground, the seats adsorb more energy.  Even then the passengers experience not insignificant G, I seem to recall 2+ up through their asses and spine.  The airframe is automatically written off with any parachute deployment.  You're probably going to need chiropractic care after 'landing' but hey, it's better then self burial at terminal velocity.

This brings up some interesting thoughts on a mid-flight engine failure...do you try to glide and dead-stick land it at an airport (assuming sufficient glide distance), or do you pull the chicken handle and total your $450,000 bird?

EDIT:  $675,000 bird.  General aviation has gotten way beyond the reach of the average joe.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

And the point is....

I am supposed to go out and buy a Red Bull, which costs more than Coke and comes in smaller cans, because I saw a dangerous plane trick on YouTube?

Do they think that most humans are stupid?

Most are.

psteav (Forum Supporter) said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Ballistic shoots are not to save the plane.  They are so the occupants can survive.  The SR22 below has seats mounted basically on shocks so that when the airframe hits the ground, the seats adsorb more energy.  Even then the passengers experience not insignificant G, I seem to recall 2+ up through their asses and spine.  The airframe is automatically written off with any parachute deployment.  You're probably going to need chiropractic care after 'landing' but hey, it's better then self burial at terminal velocity.

This brings up some interesting thoughts on a mid-flight engine failure...do you try to glide and dead-stick land it at an airport (assuming sufficient glide distance), or do you pull the chicken handle and total your $450,000 bird?

 

EDIT:  $675,000 bird.  General aviation has gotten way beyond the reach of the average joe.

Aviation has always been expensive.

The southwest is in a 20 year drought.  Intentionally crashing something with fuel in it is enough grounds for the punishment.

Agreed, most aircraft are expensive.  However I paid $20k for a Grob 109 motorglider.  Comfy for two, more room than the small Cessna with great visibility, two liter boxer engine with a variable pitch prop so it cruises at 100mph at 2200 RPM.  With a 27 : 1 glide ratio I'm comfortable if something bad happens, more time to sort it out.  Once you're a glider pilot, MG is just a skill set sign off.

Edit:   It uses 2.5 gallons per hour of regular gas.  I burn 91 ethanol free just because.  10 gallon tank.

psteav (Forum Supporter) said:

This brings up some interesting thoughts on a mid-flight engine failure...do you try to glide and dead-stick land it at an airport (assuming sufficient glide distance), or do you pull the chicken handle and total your $450,000 bird?

 

EDIT:  $675,000 bird.  General aviation has gotten way beyond the reach of the average joe.

For general aviation, bailing or ballistic parachute is the last option on the table. The first priority is controlling the aircraft  and finding someplace safe to put it down if needed. Next, contact the tower and let them know you have an issue. Then go thru the systems to see about restart. Gliding is always the better option, even in the most basic aircraft the glide ratio will be around 5:1 if there are no mechanical flight control issues.

My first flight instructor had one more step to the above list. Before looking for restart solutions, take a shoe off and wedge the door open a little bit, so if you have to put it down the door would not be stuck shut and you could get out quickly. He had stories of flying "cargo" between central america and Florida that may have skewed his list.

pheller said:

Why didn't they just do it over the ocean? 

When was the last time you saw people skydive over the ocean?

If you're going fast enough, it doesn't matter if you hit solid ground or ocean, you'll be dead. If you're parachuting slow enough, it doesn't matter if you hit solid ground or ocean, you'll be fine. Either way, the airplane will be just as wrecked.

Recovering people is going to be a LOT easier on solid ground. Waiting to be recovered is going to be a lot safer on solid ground.

The environmental damage of crashing an airplane into the desert is going to be a lot smaller than crashing it into the ocean, and the cleanup is going to be a lot easier.

Open water is probably the second most dangerous terrain to fly over. The only thing that might be worse is mountains. Ocean might still be more dangerous, because you can pick a path to follow through mountains that follows passes where you can safely put a plane down.

In reply to stafford1500 :

Aviate

Navigate

Communicate

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

If you think about it, we are talking about Red Bull. Others are taking about Red Bull. This is exactly what they wanted regardless of the legality or success of the stunt.

In reply to Appleseed :

And they don't care that two pilots lost their licenses.

stafford1500 said:

...My first flight instructor had one more step to the above list. Before looking for restart solutions, take a shoe off and wedge the door open a little bit, so if you have to put it down the door would not be stuck shut and you could get out quickly. He had stories of flying "cargo" between central america and Florida that may have skewed his list.

I have always believed one aspect of flight training that is generally missing is teach pilot how to crash, and to be less afraid of it.  Trying to avoid crashing causes a lot of deaths (general low altitude stalls).

My step father was a flight examiner, and in his later years he started experimenting with figuring out what altitude he need to make a 180 (in a Champ) and downwind landing on the runway (clearly you need the airport to be not busy and an understanding controller).  I will bet there a very few pilots who know that number.

In reply to aircooled :

Never got that detailed or in depth. Both my dad and my instructor made a point of being sure I was very well trained in unusual attitude recovery. Lots of practice putting the airplane into and getting it out of full spins - power on and off. Put me through the exercise of pulling the throttle back at unexpected times and making me set myself up for an emergency landing. Pretty sure they even did that on takeoff several times just to force me to stay calm and come up with a plan.