Research into medicinal marijuana grows up.

Way way back when I was a kid it was much easier to go across the street to get a joint than it was to find someone to buy beer for us. Keeping pot illegal finances drug dealers who usually are involved in other nefarious activites. Make it legal (just pot, no cocaine, meth, heroin, etc.) sell it in drug stores, tax the hell out of it, and decrease our prison population and illegal crime.

We will never be able to "stamp" out marijuana smoking. It grows wild throughout the country. When the railroads were first laid down, they covered the soil on the side of the tracks with hemp seed to hold the ground. To this day wild hemp grows alongside railroad tracks throughout the country. It's a weed, we will never be able to eliminate it, no matter how many thousands of pounds law enforcement burns, or how many billions of our dollars are spent.

It is wrong to place pot in the same category as heroin, meth, LSD, or even alcohol. Marijuana has been proven to be the least harmful (by far) of these substances.

We spend far too much $$$ trying to stamp out marijuana use. This money could be better spent on education, and about a million other things.

just my .02

HiTempguy wrote: The fact is (and you can't really argue it, it WOULD happen) is if weed is legalized that will open doorways towards legalizing other drugs. And to tell you the truth, I don't really think inhaling any sort of smoke is good for you *rollseyes* Pretty basic concept.

This really is a pretty silly argument (the whole "slippery slope" thing). So what exactly has the legalization of alcohol lead to? Where is the slippery slope there? Alcohol is a far more damaging "drug" than Pot will every be. Yah it makes some people stupid and worthless (the abusers), but have you EVER meet heavy alcoholic (there are PLENTY of them out there) and they cost a LOT to "take care of"

My real worry with these laws (as in California) is that the abusers of the system will make it illegal again so that if I ever have a medical use for I won't be able to get it. And yes there certainly are still abusers of the system in California...

MGAMGB wrote: So you're saying that legalizing marijuana, making it expensive, and less anonymous to buy will somehow reduce the drug dealer street trade and also cut down on "Illegal crime"? I'd respect the legalization movement a lot more if the proponents would just admit they want to get high first and foremost. They ignore the elephant in the room while touting the health benefits and swiss-army uses. Inhaling any type of smoke is bad for you and there are other better utilitarian options than the wonder plant hemp. Maybe you believe it's capable of miracles, but don't act like getting high isn't your main objective.

I have to disagree with you there. I know plenty of reasonable, logical folks who have never touched the stuff, and totally support legalization. While I'm not sure if I agree with the "Tax the hell out of it" argument (I'm not sure that I disagree with it either,) I'm totally OK with the "de-criminalize it" part. When you remove the 10,000% markup (<---"made-up" number, but probably not far from the truth,) suddenly people are no longer killing each other for turf rights, controlling corrupt South American governments, etc. Joe Shmoe can throw a seed in the ground, squirt some water on it, and have an endless supply in two weeks.

Personally, I'm for the legalization of ALL drugs, pretty much none of which I'd ever CONSIDER using. Prohibition didn't work in the 20's, and it's not working now. Would it still be illegal to drive under the influence? Yes. Could you still have your kids taken away if you're sitting at home smoking crack all day or cooking up in the bathtub? Absolutely. Would Joe Schmoe who comes home from work and smokes a joint instead of pounding a six-pack be subject to jail time and fines? Not in my utopia.

If you're OK with the current prohibition of Marijuana, would I be correct in assuming that you're OK with alcohol prohibition too?

MGAMGB wrote: Maybe you believe it's capable of miracles, but don't act like getting high isn't your main objective.

Not mine. I have no interest in getting high. I just think America's current drug laws are silly, hypocritical, and ultimately counter-productive.

As for the whole "slippery slope" argument, we currently have a situation where legally we say pot and, say, PCP are roughly equivalent. Which is like saying a match and a flame thrower are more or less the same.

If we took a more reasoned and analytical approach than "drugs are bad, mmmkay" then we wouldn't be filling prisons with stoners who only want to get baked and gorge themselves on Frito pie, and we could focus our limited resources on dealing with the elements that actually pose a threat to society.

And that's the cue for someone to say "what about the stoner who drives into a busload of nuns and children" or something... but pre-emptively I'll say that's another silly argument. If someone drives their car into they hypothetical busload of nuns, I don't really care if they're stoned, drunk, talking on the cell phone, or whatever. The crime is driving when they shouldn't have been, and we have laws for that already.

So you're saying that legalizing marijuana, making it expensive, and less anonymous to buy will somehow reduce the drug dealer street trade and also cut down on "Illegal crime"?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. How much crime is involved in the sale of moonshine these days?

Getting access to marijuana for recreational use is not the issue. Anyone (including 10 year olds) can get the drug today.....easily. If you sell weed in stores, tax it, regulate it, and set an age limit on it, you can better keep it out of the hands of kids and make tax revenue off it to boot.

This has nothing to do with stoners getting high, and everything to do with common sense.

mmmm....Frito pie.....

Joe Gearin wrote: How much crime is involved in the sale of moonshine these days?

NASCAR comes to mind.

MGAMGB wrote: So you're saying that legalizing marijuana, making it expensive, and less anonymous to buy will somehow reduce the drug dealer street trade and also cut down on "Illegal crime"? ....

So tell us when exactly was the last time you bought some of that illegal street alcohol? Why would anyone go to a store to buy some brand name quality controlled government regulated quality liquor when you can buy it from some guy who is making in his bathtub (which is what they did during prohibition, yes it did kill people).

Well, let's see..

The store-bought stuff would be convenient, quality assured and legal. The street stuff would be more hassle (having to find a dealer rather than the local drug store or kwik e mart), have god only knows what in it, and illegal, since the taxes weren't paid... just like bootleg liquor.

MGAMGB wrote: I'd respect the legalization movement a lot more if the proponents would just admit they want to get high first and foremost. They ignore the elephant in the room while touting the health benefits and swiss-army uses. Inhaling any type of smoke is bad for you and there are other better utilitarian options than the wonder plant hemp. Maybe you believe it's capable of miracles, but don't act like getting high isn't your main objective.

You are being incredibly ignorant here. Here are two facts for you to mull over.

1. I have never smoked marijuana.
2. I think it should be legal to do so.

I'm not claiming miracles. I'm not claiming health benefits or the 1001 uses for hemp. In a supposedly free society, I don't need some beurocrat telling me what I can and cannot do to my own body.

MGAMGB wrote: So apples that I buy at the flea market are more dangerous than those I buy at Wal-Mart, because they weren't bought in a store, because I didn't pay taxes on them, and because the stranger produce man could have injected arsenic in them?

OK, I'll go along with your analogy, as silly as it is.

Let's say there were substantial taxes on apples, and only apple growers who had paid the taxes could legally sell them. The flea market seller had not, was selling them illegally, and buying one was subject the buyer to criminal penalties.

And the apple wasn't whole. It had been chopped up and mixed with... who knows what.

And I had to hunt around all day for the flea market vendor, when I could have just bought an apple...

At that point, I think most people would just go to the store and buy an apple.

MGAMGB wrote: I'm looking at this strictly from a business point of view. If a product is available on the street, is convenient, and is cheap, why would you buy the same product in a store for more money if it's legal either way?

Except that, the advertising campaigns will tell people how much safer and higher quality Marlboro Greens (that name is actually copyrighted, should marijuana be legalized) are than the stems and seeds on the street. Discerning, classy smokers smoke Marlboro Greens.

And it would be simple to keep people from buying it on the street. It could be handled just like alcohol. It is legal to brew your own alcohol, but you need a business license to sell it. Big companies would quickly cut down their competition.

I'm in favor of legalizing it. I have never smoked it and don't care to. I think it is a waste of resources.

I was also an RA for two years. I would have loved if Marijuana were legal. We wouldn't have had to put up with a bunch of stupid and potentially hazardous crap from people smoking pot. Nobody smoked cigarettes in their rooms, because you couldn't smoke inside. People would smoke pot in their rooms, stuff towels under the doors. And when they were done they'd leave their rooms with scented candles and incense burning unattended.

So, you end up with some potential fire hazards because stupid people had to hide their activities. Plus the rooms get filled with smoke that stinks the place up and can stain the walls. Although, I imagine cannabis doesn't stain walls the way nicotine does.

Excellent analogy Salanis. Cigarettes works way better than apples. When was the last time you heard of someone buying illegal cigarettes? I'm sure it happens, but it is pretty damn rare.

Another thing to consider. It's called "weed" for a reason, if it was legal a LOT of enthusiasts would just grow it! Then again, the best stuff would likely be store bought. (I imagine a lot of smokers would become brand snobs).

Actually DILYSI Dave there's a huge "problem" with people buying contraband cigarettes in Canada, all because they're cheaper than the legal cigarettes. Its estimated that more than 30% of smokers in Ontario smoked contraband cigarettes last year, and 37% in Quebec.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070803/illegal_cigarette_trade_070803?s_name=&no_ads=

The US also has a big problem with it too. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/09/29/2008-09-29_mayor_bloomberg_sez_pay_piper_for_illega.html

Bob

Salanis wrote: ....Although, I imagine cannabis doesn't stain walls the way nicotine does.

Ohhh, you have no idea... I new this guy who was a bit of smoker and not so much of a window cleaner. The windows in his main room were so coated with what I am guessing was tar they looked like they were tinted and you could barely see through them!! I think that tar can actually be re-smoked (if you are desperate), others would likely know more about this.

Schmidlap wrote: Actually DILYSI Dave there's a huge "problem" with people buying contraband cigarettes in Canada, all because they're cheaper than the legal cigarettes. Its estimated that more than 30% of smokers in Ontario smoked contraband cigarettes last year, and 37% in Quebec.

Let's say we legalized Marijuana, and people still bought it on the streets, because they could get it cheaper there.

So what? The situation wouldn't be any worse than it is now. Resources being spent on fighting Marijuana use could be directed elsewhere.

I'm not buying that medical expenses would go up. I don't think we'd see a long-term rise in drug usage. We already share the burden of people's bad habits.

Heck, we're car people. Other people share the burden of our habits. We are at a greater risk for hospitalization with serious injuries than the rest of the population. The costs of that increased risk are shared by everyone who pays insurance.

MGAMGB wrote: I don't think I so. You're arguing points of personal rights and freedom thereof. I said in my original post in this thread that that is a circular argument (read:trap) and I won't pound that sand. Seatbelts, MC helmets, etc. - all regulated personal freedoms.

You won't go there because you know that you lose there. It is 100% an issue of personal freedom.

BTW - on the others you mention - Seatbelts make a bit of sense because they are more likely to keep a wrecked, but still moving car under control. Thus, they are there to protect others, not the wearer. I think Helmet laws are also BS. I wouldn't ride a bike without one, but I think it's a BS law. I don't want tax dollars spent on putting humpty back together again though, so I'm OK with saying that riding without a helmet is legal, but we aren't paying for your bills when you screw up.

EDIT - And yeah - I hate stoner-hemp-fact-guy. He's a douche.

Resources being spent on fighting Marijuana use could be directed elsewhere.

Actually, they wouldn't (the resources). They'd be shifted to stopping the illegal sale of the product... which the government already does (the government in Canada doesn't really punish the use of it). Odd how nothing changed.

MGAMGB wrote: So which is it, Captain Freedom, yeah personal choice or control the populous? Make up your mind.

I believe it goes something along the lines of "My rights end where yours begin."

ReverendDexter wrote:

MGAMGB wrote: So which is it, Captain Freedom, yeah personal choice or control the populous? Make up your mind.

I believe it goes something along the lines of "My rights end where yours begin."

Which begs the very important question regarding drug use: at what point does the use of a drug conflict with the rights of the people around you?

Caffeine and ibuprofen are drugs, but we don't need to worry too much about controlling. But what about everything else?

I really wish all of you would stop arguing over a subject that none of you have researched, it's PAINFULLY obvious.

As a small tidbit, compare drug usage rates of America to the Netherlands where pot is legal. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Mmmmmm....flamethrower. drool

If pot were legal, there would be different brands of it, and with different brands would come the generic versions like Doral and the "quality" stuff like Marlboro. Healthy competition in the market and somthing everyone who wants it can afford. I don't think the street stuff will be that attractive when you can get a "name brand" legally in the store and guarantee consistancy if not quality.

The problem is going to come up in the restaurants in determining the smoking sections. "Will that be green or brown smoking?"

While I have smoked my share of pot in the past, I don't persue it now. I don't have any objection to the legalization and taxation of pot. I don't group it in with coke, crack, x, speed or any of the more harmful drugs. No one has ever gone on a violent killing spree while high on pot. I concede the massacre of many a twinkie, but really, they needed killin'.

MGAMGB wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I really wish all of you would stop arguing over a subject that none of you have researched, it's PAINFULLY obvious. As a small tidbit, compare drug usage rates of America to the Netherlands where pot is legal. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Where'd you learn that Cheech? Druuug school?

Shut up, Farva.

MGAMGB wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I really wish all of you would stop arguing over a subject that none of you have researched, it's PAINFULLY obvious. As a small tidbit, compare drug usage rates of America to the Netherlands where pot is legal. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Where'd you learn that Cheech? Druuug school?

Your insightful and witty retort further proves my point that you are attempting to impart an uneducated opinion of a controversial issue on the rest of us.

But in all seriousness, I did a series of presentations on the legalization of marijuana in one of my capstone speech classes in college. Lots and lots of interesting data, I'll have to see if I can find some of the research I did.

Like Cocaine, "pot" was initially made illegal because its association with minority cultures.