Retirement

Wow, we can get into a E36 M3 storm on any topic can’t we?

Quick aside.  Whoever commented on teachers pensions, whatever it is, it’s not enough.  I know many teachers and what they get paid for what they do is frankly pathetic.  They may get a good pension (in many but not all areas) but that’s to compensate for E36 M3ty pay in their working years..  Yes they get a lot of time off, but the hours they put in are way longer than the school day and their out of pocket expenses are stupid.  They deserve every penny they will get in retirement, if it’s still there.

I plan on working until Medicare kicks in.  My back up plan if all goes south on the employment front is to head back to the UK for a few years until Medicare kicks in then come back again.  One day this country will wake an roll out some form of universal health care as what we have is completely unsustainable, but I no longer hold out hope for that in my time frame.

Unlike Alfa who also works at Ford, I don’t get a company pension or retirement health care as I was hired long after him and the benefits changed.  I’m totally on my own.  I plan on living off my 401K and IRA savings plus the income from two, hopefully three by then, rental properties.  I don’t plan on touching Social Security until 70 to get the best value from it.  At one time we thought we’d (SWMBO and I) both inherit a not insignificant sum from our parents, in both cases that’s no longer the case, but thankfully we never counted on it.  Due to life circumstances we had a significant hit about 15 years ago but we’ve recovered from that reasonably well.

Appleseed said:

Enyar said:

As for others there are plenty of retirees, even young ones. You just don't notice it because you're stuck with the other suckers that haven't made it out yet or don't know better.

Cool, thanks for the reminder. 

All I am saying is the math isn't that complicated. Take a second, pay yourself first and figure out what's best for you. Come up with a plan and stick to it. Right now I'm one of those suckers engaged in cubical warfare.  I have a plan to get out by 40 and so far I am on track. Sure things can come up and change the plan but I think this is a better process than waiting until 65, retiring and then dying of a heart attack. 

RevRico said:

I got berkeleyed out of my retirement. Thanks grandpa. So yes, I'll be working till the day I die. What a berkeleying waste. 

Did Gramps steal from you? Have you run the numbers? It may be easier than you think to retire before you die. Run the numbers!

Nick Comstock said:

I'm 39. I don't have a single cent saved for retirement and don't see that being a possibly in the future. I'll work until the day I die. Which I hope is sooner than later.

If you started today you would still be ahead of countless others. I urge you to head to some of the online communities (mr money mustache is a good start) and see what you can do to shift the tide.

In reply to frenchyd :

Unions didn’t insist on health insurance in place of raises.  During WW2 the government capped wages so that companies couldn’t throw money at people to lure them away from their current jobs during a labor shortage.  Large companies used healthcare as a perk in place of money.  

Oh, yeah, Financial advisors.  I just don't get why people keep wasting money on them.  Most trail the market, very few match the market and it's a rare beast who beats the market.  But even those who do beat the market, they would need to beat it by more than their fees to just break even.  It's worse than that though.  They don't just  need to beat the market enough to cover their current fees, they need to outperform the market enough to beat what they cost your compound interest from 5-10-15 years ago.

Say your investment advisor charges $1,000 a year, and that's a really low figure, and you started using them 15 years ago.  I chose 15 years to make sure I cover the great depression in returns.  Over that 15 years, including the 08-10 collapse, the average return for the S&P (larger, better cross section than the DOW) has been around 5%.  So allowing for a 5% return on that $1,000 you could have saved each year, your financial advisor needs to beat the market by an extra $25K this year alone to cover the real cost of his/her fees since 03.  

Wally said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Unions didn’t insist on health insurance in place of raises.  During WW2 the government capped wages so that companies couldn’t throw money at people to lure them away from their current jobs during a labor shortage.  Large companies used healthcare as a perk in place of money.  

That's not my understanding.  Unions started using health care benefits long before WW2 to attract members going back tot he great depression

In reply to Enyar :

When you live paycheck to paycheck, the only plan you have is where your next meal comes from. Which is fine, because beyond a host of other medical problems, statistically , my heart will explode by the time I'm 55, so I got 16 more years. I'm not worried, I'll just be dead.

Hal said:

ProDarwin said:

Hal said:

I retired the first time in 1994 at age 51 after 28 years of teaching.  

<snip>

I had always planned on retiring from teaching at 30 years so I planned the finances accordingly.  I started getting my teachers retirement as soon as I retired. 

Side note:  I was talking to some friends that are teachers.  Their retirement benefits are *nuts*.  I contribute **heavily** to retirement accounts/savings and earn a good wage.  I will struggle to achieve a retirement even close to what they are looking at.

Yes, my teacher's retirement is very good but I contributed 7% of my gross salary for all 28 years to get it.  And as another side note: For the last 20 years before we retired we did out best to live on one income and invest the other.  It worked so well that we are still doing it in retirement.

My degree was for teaching but I simply could not afford the low wages to start and the high chance of not getting a job.  Instead I went into sales and did very well as did a few other teachers or former teachers.  

Now in retirement some teachers will be ahead of me but knowing everything they earned every single dime of it.  

I think I've now worked out a better retirement plan for myself than my old plan which could be seen on the show "Live Free or Die". I'll keep trying to get a job that would allow me to afford a decent retirement, and if I start to feel like I can't keep working much longer and that still isn't working out, I'll go into cybercrime.

Anyone else planning on living abroad in retirement? We are looking at central/south America, Spain, Portugal, or SE Asia when our son is through college, He starts college (if he goes) when we're 39.  I'll be eligible to retire from the Air Force when I'm 38 and my wife is in the dental field so she will be able to find a job anywhere she can speak the language.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Ahh, the old 'never steal $10 from the coffee club, but $10mil from the banks is OK  plan

Appleseed said:

In reply to Enyar :

When you live paycheck to paycheck, the only plan you have is where your next meal comes from. Which is fine, because beyond a host of other medical problems, statistically , my heart will explode by the time I'm 55, so I got 16 more years. I'm not worried, I'll just be dead.

Yea, almost exactly this. The only reason I even have a roof over my head right now is because my dad had life insurance on the mortgage so when he died and I moved back home to raise my kid, the house was paid for. 

I had a fantastic high paying job in California and had to give it up and move back to E36 M3hole Pennsylvania when I found out a child was coming, and I foolishly believed my grandfather the last 5 years of his and my dad's life where he blatantly lied to our faces about me being taken care of for wasting my entire childhood in and out of hospitals wondering if my dad was even going to wake up in the morning just for that miserable old vajajay to leave my entire inheritance to my useless, worthless, never known a day of hard work or personal suffering in their entire lives uncle and his family, who have since pretended neither I nor my father ever existed. Seriously, it's been 3 years. Not a single phone call, Christmas card, or text, even when they're in town to visit my grandfather's girlfriend. I had to go to the courthouse and dig through the estate tax returns to find out why I never got anything, they didn't even have the balls to tell me to my face. Well, there was one phone call, when I asked uncle scumberkeley how old he was the first time he went to a dialysis clinic and he hung up on me. I was 13, for the record.

Right now, I'm barely breaking even at the end of the month, and prospects for the future look grim at best, because as the child ages it gets considerably more expensive. I'm just glad I don't have health insurance because between the monthly extortion rates and impossible deductions, they could take the house when the inevitable health problems kick in and then I'd be really berkeleyed. 

Both of my parents “retired” early. Mom was laid off 6 months before her 50th birthday when the day care center she worked for went under. She collected her 6 months of unemployment and went back to home making. Dad’s last job was with KBR in Iraq until the withdrawal. He came home a month before turning 55. He intended to go to Afghanistan but mom was done with his being gone. They lived off of savings and his military retirement pay for about 2 years until his military disability went to 100% and now he collects triple. 

Myself, I plan to work until I die out of necessity or my wife makes enough for me to be a house husband. 

Interesting topic as retirement has been on my mind lately.  I'm eligible in 2030, I am mandatory in 2035.  By mandatory I can continue to work but not in the position I currently hold.   I will be 52 or 57 depending on when.   I often wonder if we will be really "set" for retirement by then.  

In reply to octavious :

What do you do that you need to retire by that age?  

RevRico said:

Yea, almost exactly this. The only reason I even have a roof over my head right now is because my dad had life insurance on the mortgage so when he died and I moved back home to raise my kid, the house was paid for. 

I had a fantastic high paying job in California and had to give it up and move back to E36 M3hole Pennsylvania when I found out a child was coming, and I foolishly believed my grandfather the last 5 years of his and my dad's life where he blatantly lied to our faces about me being taken care of for wasting my entire childhood in and out of hospitals wondering if my dad was even going to wake up in the morning just for that miserable old vajajay to leave my entire inheritance to my useless, worthless, never known a day of hard work or personal suffering in their entire lives uncle and his family, who have since pretended neither I nor my father ever existed. Seriously, it's been 3 years. Not a single phone call, Christmas card, or text, even when they're in town to visit my grandfather's girlfriend. I had to go to the courthouse and dig through the estate tax returns to find out why I never got anything, they didn't even have the balls to tell me to my face. Well, there was one phone call, when I asked uncle scumberkeley how old he was the first time he went to a dialysis clinic and he hung up on me. I was 13, for the record.

Right now, I'm barely breaking even at the end of the month, and prospects for the future look grim at best, because as the child ages it gets considerably more expensive. I'm just glad I don't have health insurance because between the monthly extortion rates and impossible deductions, they could take the house when the inevitable health problems kick in and then I'd be really berkeleyed. 

Seems very frustrating, but also seems to be a pretty negative outlook.  Surely there is something you can do to improve your situation.

frenchyd said:

We both agree that some ( many?)  people are undervalued both economically and benefit wise. I realize this treads remarkably close to a political statement but perhaps we could learn from Europe.  

Germany for example gives a person a 2 year  paid sabbatical  to do as you wish.  Plus an income higher than most other countries.  Free health care and personal benefits that go with the person rather than are lost with each job change. 

Scandinavian countries  with their high taxes provide benefits so well they make their people happier than countries with massively lower taxes including America. Their schools are in the top so their citizens are highly prized by employees.  

Most European countries teach school children to eat healthy food by making it taste well. American kids are fed cheap food and as a result obesity is prevalent music sports and shop are sacrificed on the alter of cheap.   

Ahhh well their just a bunch of commie socialists, so they can't possibly outlast the good ol' United States of America. Give it time, they'll crumble, and all their citizens will just be begging for all that time they wasted not working!

*This reply was sarcasm.*

Adrian_Thompson said:

Wally said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Unions didn’t insist on health insurance in place of raises.  During WW2 the government capped wages so that companies couldn’t throw money at people to lure them away from their current jobs during a labor shortage.  Large companies used healthcare as a perk in place of money.  

That's not my understanding.  Unions started using health care benefits long before WW2 to attract members going back tot he great depression

Yes!  Those health care benefits were in leu of pay increases  because it was cheaper back then than a wage increase

ProDarwin said:

I plan on retiring at 50.  Hoepfully sooner.

The provisions I've made include heavily funded retirement accounts and taxable investments.

 

If I get tired of the rat race before then, I may 'retire' in my early/mid 40s to a part-time gig.

 

My parents and inlaws all retired in their late 50s.  I can't imagine waiting until 70

This is exactly what I plan to do as well. I've been trying to think of what kind of part-time job would be enjoyable and interesting to do without a lot of stress. I still have 10 years give or take to figure it out though.

pheller said:

Ahhh well their just a bunch of commie socialists, so they can't possibly outlast the good ol' United States of America. Give it time, they'll crumble, and all their citizens will just be begging for all that time they wasted not working!

 

*This reply was sarcasm.*

d cheap food and as a result obesity is prevalent music sports and shop are sacrificed on the alter of cheap.   

Shh, don't tell anyone, but if you look at happiness index, it's always the Northern European countries with all those hippy dippy commie welfare programs and lot's of time off that score the highest while the US barely makes the top 20.  It's funny how people point fingers at generous social welfare programs and cry 'Commie', when non of them are. They are all democracies with strong social programs.  Countries that are and claim to be (or were) communist don't have those social programs and aren't happy places (China, Russia, I'm looking at you)

OK, to head off the smart arses who ask why I'm here then, it's simple.  I have the education, job and vacation package that I can and do live a happy life.  If I didn't get five weeks vacation (one more coming in three years woo hoo) and didn't have excellent health care I'd be back in Europe.  America is a great place to live for the (shrinking) middle classes and above, not so much for the less well off.

GameboyRMH said:

I think I've now worked out a better retirement plan for myself than my old plan which could be seen on the show "Live Free or Die". I'll keep trying to get a job that would allow me to afford a decent retirement, and if I start to feel like I can't keep working much longer and that still isn't working out, I'll go into cybercrime.

Prison is one form of retirement.  Hopefully they won’t cap the age you can go to prison.  I mean free food, free medical, free clothes, free dental, free security, and if you are good, Conjugal visits!   

What’s a year in a medium security prison cost the Taxpayers nowdays? $65,000?  I suppose it depends on the prison.  It’s nice that some really want to get tough on crime.  

( I hope you can read the sarcasm in my writing )

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

What works in a country the size and population of an average US state (or smaller), with a long history of relatively homogenous ethnic composition, isn't necessarily going to work in America.

And that's about all I'm going to say on that subject.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Wow... retired at 26! You win!

As noted, maybe retirement isn't the proper word for taking care of a pile of small children, but I did nap like an old man, so I'm going to count it. 

Seth, I don't know how you do it.  My wife stays home with our kids, and that job is way freakin harder than my job.  When I'm on kid duty, the house looks like a wreck when she gets home, and I don't get anything done in the meantime.  I just survive and keep the kids alive.  I don't know how you managed to tackle some monster projects with taking care of the kids as your primary responsibility.

Luckily, my wife is awesome, and I'll gladly work a job I don't love in order to make it possible for her to stay home with the kiddos.  I'd love to retire early, but I don't have a plan for it yet  - 29 years old now.  I've found ways to supplement my income in the past, and they have worked out well but they were never regular, reliable income.  Working on some stuff now to try to add a dependable income source that won't affect my ability to be a good parent and good employee at my day job.  I won't be able to estimate retirement dates until the new project stabilizes and proves it can bring in the money I have estimated it will.

I don't really worry about retirement. I have no idea how I'll spend my time or any money I may have by then. But at 30 (barely), I do max out my employer matched 401k and my wife is an awesome saver and budgeter. I figure that once we have our cars paid and have finished saving a years worth of expenses (halfway there!) I'll look at more investing. It is all so boring though. I dislike money, dislike the need for money, dislike people who only want more money. For a pretty conservative guy, I sure do see the appeal of a moneyless society.

Adrian_Thompson said:

pheller said:

Ahhh well their just a bunch of commie socialists, so they can't possibly outlast the good ol' United States of America. Give it time, they'll crumble, and all their citizens will just be begging for all that time they wasted not working!

 

*This reply was sarcasm.*

d cheap food and as a result obesity is prevalent music sports and shop are sacrificed on the alter of cheap.   

Shh, don't tell anyone, but if you look at happiness index, it's always the Northern European countries with all those hippy dippy commie welfare programs and lot's of time off that score the highest while the US barely makes the top 20.  It's funny how people point fingers at generous social welfare programs and cry 'Commie', when non of them are. They are all democracies with strong social programs.  Countries that are and claim to be (or were) communist don't have those social programs and aren't happy places (China, Russia, I'm looking at you)

 

OK, to head off the smart arses who ask why I'm here then, it's simple.  I have the education, job and vacation package that I can and do live a happy life.  If I didn't get five weeks vacation (one more coming in three years woo hoo) and didn't have excellent health care I'd be back in Europe.  America is a great place to live for the (shrinking) middle classes and above, not so much for the less well off.

Well said! 

There seems to be a common Thread running here that many people want to retire in their fifties or earlier. Really?

While we look at statistics and they suggest life expectancy may be into your early 70s, you are likely to live longer if you make it to your 50s. Based on his birth year my father's life expectancy statistically was something like age 62. But he died at age 84. The statistics are skewed because they include infant mortality as a factor for determining a population's life expectancy.

In my father's case he retired from the military at age 38 with 23 years service. Not a typo. Do the math. Lied about his age and went into the military at age 15. Was wounded in both Korea and Vietnam but survived that mess. After the military he continued to work in the private sector until about age 53 at which time he retired again and began raising cattle in a semi retired but very active state. He was still active on the farm until 3 months before his death.

But I digress. Perhaps we are looking at retirement in the wrong way. Maybe we are really saying we will have a succession of careers throughout our life that shift and change over an extended period dependent  on what life throws us . I know that has happened to me albeit voluntarily at times and involuntarily at others. After graduating college I was in the bar business. Then went to work for the federal government for a while. Then did Law School and went into private practice. And now I'm a stroke addled barrister looking for my next chapter.

I cannot fathom retiring completely at any age.