In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
Suze Orman suggests we work to 70 in some type of job.
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
Suze Orman suggests we work to 70 in some type of job.
Ovid_and_Flem said:There seems to be a common Thread running here that many people want to retire in their fifties or earlier. Really?
When I "retire" in my 50's, I still plan to work. Just not in a cube doing something I don't want because I have to save/pay the bills. It'll be something I want to do. At least that's the plan. Ask me again in 10 years.
Right. I think that's the goal for many nowadays - work high pay jobs that pays bills and sucks souls, if said career doesn't develop into high-vacation low-effort job, quit in the mid-50's to pursue more leisurely, flexible employment till about 70 or so.
In my industry, the longer you stay the easier the job gets, and the pension after x number of years keep a few around. I'm staying until I'm vested for sure, but the job is so chill (and relatively good paying) it would be hard to leave.
I'm the opposite.
After decades of "hustle", I've got the "chill" job. Good pay, good benefits. I feel like I'm rotting on the vine.
I am considering going back.
dculberson said:In reply to Datsun310Guy :
Work in a biblical sense is not necessarily the same as work in the modern sense. Ie working for an income is likely not what god had in mind with Adam and the garden of eden. Working your land, working on your home, etc is actually more in line with that.
Considering the Bible was composed something like 300AD
I doubt it was written for us wage slaves. That’s the difficulty of the Bible. Always subject to interpretation . And of course few actually agree about the proper interpretation
Armitage said:Ovid_and_Flem said:There seems to be a common Thread running here that many people want to retire in their fifties or earlier. Really?
When I "retire" in my 50's, I still plan to work. Just not in a cube doing something I don't want because I have to save/pay the bills. It'll be something I want to do. At least that's the plan. Ask me again in 10 years.
Sounds like you understand that much as we’d like to think we are in control of our lives. Events determine much more than our best efforts.
frenchyd said:Sounds like you understand that much as we’d like to think we are in control of our lives. Events determine much more than our best efforts.
That's a victim's mindset. I strongly disagree that events determine more than our personal efforts. Truly life altering events like being hit by a drunk driver, or an otherwise healthy person suddenly keeling over from a heart attack are certainly possible, but they're pretty random and not very likely in the scheme of things. Life happens to everybody, but if outside events like job loss or the economy crashing are ruining your life then the hard truth is that you're not planning well enough. You cannot always control what happens in your life, but you can control how prepared you are for it, and you can absolutely control how you react to those occurrences.
It's not always somebody else's fault that you get in a jam. More often than not, your choices play a significant role in your experiences. If you're not happy with your life, or in a tough spot then examine your decision making and make whatever change is necessary.
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
It depends on how much you like what you do. I have a job that has a never ending supply of stress and a long commute that pays just well enough and has good enough health insurance that my wife should be taken care of as her health deteriorates and she has to stop working. The one perk right now is that I should be able to retire at 55 and if I’m still above ground I can do the things I’ve been putting off since I was 14 like travel and relax. I will probably still have to do some kind of work but it can be something I enjoy without the commute and 50+ hour week I have now. I doubt I’ll ever retire completely, only two men in my family did and they both died within two years after extremely painful fights with cancer. The rest have kept working until nice, quick heart attacks took them. My father came close to retiring at 65 but then my sister, her husband and two kids moved back but his company had a spot he could pick driving a minivan instead of a bus so he’s not working nearly as hard.
STM317 said:frenchyd said:Sounds like you understand that much as we’d like to think we are in control of our lives. Events determine much more than our best efforts.
That's a victim's mindset. I strongly disagree that events determine more than our personal efforts. Truly life altering events like being hit by a drunk driver, or an otherwise healthy person suddenly keeling over from a heart attack are certainly possible, but they're pretty random and not very likely in the scheme of things. Life happens to everybody, but if outside events like job loss or the economy crashing are ruining your life then the hard truth is that you're not planning well enough. You cannot always control what happens in your life, but you can control how prepared you are for it, and you can absolutely control how you react to those occurrences.
It's not always somebody else's fault that you get in a jam. More often than not, your choices play a significant role in your experiences. If you're not happy with your life! or in a tough spot then examine your decision making and make whatever change is necessary.
Well you clearly don’t understand me. I’ve achieved more with less than most people. While I’m proud of my achievements I also recognize those who have helped me. I’m also aware of the events that have shaped me. While I’m proud of my military service, what if the Vietnam war hadn’t happened? Working on my Black Jack special many people guided me, helped me, shared my successes with me. Nobody ever calls me a victim.
Further your advice is unwarranted unwanted and unneeded.
frenchyd said:Further your advice is unwarranted unwanted and unneeded.
We all feel that way sometimes.
Wally said:In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
It depends on how much you like what you do. I have a job that has a never ending supply of stress and a long commute that pays just well enough and has good enough health insurance that my wife should be taken care of as her health deteriorates and she has to stop working. The one perk right now is that I should be able to retire at 55 and if I’m still above ground I can do the things I’ve been putting off since I was 14 like travel and relax. I will probably still have to do some kind of work but it can be something I enjoy without the commute and 50+ hour week I have now. I doubt I’ll ever retire completely, only two men in my family did and they both died within two years after extremely painful fights with cancer. The rest have kept working until nice, quick heart attacks took them. My father came close to retiring at 65 but then my sister, her husband and two kids moved back but his company had a spot he could pick driving a minivan instead of a bus so he’s not working nearly as hard.
Health issues too often take people right about retirement time. It took my late wife and my father and several friends.
When I go to reunions the list of people no longer with us is getting longer than those left. So mortality is eliminating my generation. Soon we will no longer be in charge but passed by, retired. Obsolete.
It’s the nature of life itself. While I talk about wanting to approach the grave full out sliding sideways barely in control the actual reality may be different. I hope not. But who knows?
EastCoastMojo said:frenchyd said:Further your advice is unwarranted unwanted and unneeded.
We all feel that way sometimes.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills right now.
In reply to dculberson :
Nah....that's popcorn.
Just to be clear, my post was not directed toward STM317 in any way. 
frenchyd said:Further your advice is unwarranted unwanted and unneeded.
10-4. I'll abstain from responding to your posts from here on.
I would like to point out that the few posts in this thread where you openly acknowledged your role in previous failures made me a little proud of you. It was the first time that I'd seen you own it, rather than deflecting blame. I like that version of frenchy a lot more than the guy that devotes a large percentage of his posts to complaining about the world or blaming society for some situation.
If we ever meet in person, I hope you'll allow me to buy you the beverage of your choice and I'll happily listen to your stories about racing cool old cars with famous people, or your time in the service if you're comfortable sharing. Those are the things that I want to hear from you. Happy posting.
Y'all old mf's funny
SVreX said:I'm the opposite.
After decades of "hustle", I've got the "chill" job. Good pay, good benefits. I feel like I'm rotting on the vine.
I am considering going back.
I'm with you there. Well except for the whole "good pay, good benefits" part. And the fact that I'm too physically beat up to go back to what I was doing.
Retirement for me looks like this:
So no, I'm not ruling out having some sort of job in retirement, but most likely it will be flexible and I will likely be my own boss.
Then again, hanging out with my parents or my in laws, who do no work whatsoever, is pretty nice.
SVreX said:I'm the opposite.
After decades of "hustle", I've got the "chill" job. Good pay, good benefits. I feel like I'm rotting on the vine.
I am considering going back.
My issue was that I met a lot of folks while I was younger (younger for me is all of 10 years ago when I was in my early 20's) who hustled in the trades or small businesses and just never saw the payoff. They loved working for themselves, writing off a new truck as a "work expense" and the variety of work involved with keeping up the ship. It always seemed however that either they were working back from or working towards a massive calamity. One guy owned a landscaping business employing 10 guys, multiple trucks, 100k in equipment, taking home $70k a year. He ended up selling it all because of Health Insurance for his family of 4. He said it didn't make sense to work so hard for $50k a year.
On the flip side, I know a family who owns a business installing accessibility lifts (chair lifts, elevators, etc) and they are doing really well, but well enough to retire completely? Nope. They will likely be the guiding force of the business until their 60's.
I still think the best options are A) Good paying job with lots of flexibility and vacation so its tolerable to work later in life B) living for free, where your or someone else pays your mortgage, so you can work a fun job and retire on comparatively less money C) Making a boatload real quick then using that money to earn passive income.
In reply to pheller :
That's something I watched my parents deal with. They are both veterinarians and they owned two practices. Employed 6-10 people each. At the end of the day their businesses we worth the building, discounted contents, and a much smaller than expected amount for the name and records/client base. As much as anything else a buyer was paying to no have to compete by starting a practice in the same area. The overwhelming bulk of the value was in the real estate. Decades of building two businesses and the businesses themselves were worth about a year's pay. If that sounds depressing, my sister owns a restaurant, and that's even worse.
Most small businesses that I've been around are little more than streams of income. This is great when you can figure out how to step away from the work and maintain the stream, but that doesn't happen as often as people like. I've watched a couple people build businesses with the intention of passing them on to their kids. When it was all said and done, they weren't passing on anything more than a job. If their kid didn't have a passion for that same job, then it was a pretty crappy gift.
STM317 said:frenchyd said:Further your advice is unwarranted unwanted and unneeded.
10-4. I'll abstain from responding to your posts from here on.
I would like to point out that the few posts in this thread where you openly acknowledged your role in previous failures made me a little proud of you. It was the first time that I'd seen you own it, rather than deflecting blame. I like that version of frenchy a lot more than the guy that devotes a large percentage of his posts to complaining about the world or blaming society for some situation.
If we ever meet in person, I hope you'll allow me to buy you the beverage of your choice and I'll happily listen to your stories about racing cool old cars with famous people, or your time in the service if you're comfortable sharing. Those are the things that I want to hear from you. Happy posting.
The world is not perfect. Nobody is, myself included. You may find it acceptable to ignore the flaws and accept others limitations on you. Some just continue to play a game where they are at a disadvantage.
I don’t. I have a responsibility to make America better. To that end I’ve served my country, I ran for office, I’ve raised a family, and I’ve contributed to society. I need to do more, to be better. So yes I’ll point out flaws and shortcomings.
You have a legitimate right to disagree with my viewpoints. I will try to listen to you and where we agree I’ll say so, even if that forces me to rethink, reconsider, and accept something I previously disagreed with.
The limitation of the internet means we can’t hold a normal conversation. Quickly clarify things to allow a clearer understanding.
I’m still trying to master this manner of communication. Where hours and days may separate comments.
As you said we may meet personally and quickly arrive at common ground. Or we may be wildly different people.
But all those shortcomings aside some communication is better than nothing
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to pheller :
That's something I watched my parents deal with. They are both veterinarians and they owned two practices. Employed 6-10 people each. At the end of the day their businesses we worth the building, discounted contents, and a much smaller than expected amount for the name and records/client base. As much as anything else a buyer was paying to no have to compete by starting a practice in the same area. The overwhelming bulk of the value was in the real estate. Decades of building two businesses and the businesses themselves were worth about a year's pay. If that sounds depressing, my sister owns a restaurant, and that's even worse.
Most small businesses that I've been around are little more than streams of income. This is great when you can figure out how to step away from the work and maintain the stream, but that doesn't happen as often as people like. I've watched a couple people build businesses with the intention of passing them on to their kids. When it was all said and done, they weren't passing on anything more than a job. If their kid didn't have a passion for that same job, then it was a pretty crappy gift.
It seems to be a common issue when a small business owner wants to sell. If an owner really wants to make sure a business survives after they're gone and maybe provides them some level of, they need to start on a succession plan early. Often a small business makes enough money to sustain a number of employees, but cannot sustain a business loan as well.
Ovid_and_Flem said:There seems to be a common Thread running here that many people want to retire in their fifties or earlier. Really?
While we look at statistics and they suggest life expectancy may be into your early 70s, you are likely to live longer if you make it to your 50s. Based on his birth year my father's life expectancy statistically was something like age 62. But he died at age 84. The statistics are skewed because they include infant mortality as a factor for determining a population's life expectancy.
In my father's case he retired from the military at age 38 with 23 years service. Not a typo. Do the math. Lied about his age and went into the military at age 15. Was wounded in both Korea and Vietnam but survived that mess. After the military he continued to work in the private sector until about age 53 at which time he retired again and began raising cattle in a semi retired but very active state. He was still active on the farm until 3 months before his death.
But I digress. Perhaps we are looking at retirement in the wrong way. Maybe we are really saying we will have a succession of careers throughout our life that shift and change over an extended period dependent on what life throws us . I know that has happened to me albeit voluntarily at times and involuntarily at others. After graduating college I was in the bar business. Then went to work for the federal government for a while. Then did Law School and went into private practice. And now I'm a stroke addled barrister looking for my next chapter.
I cannot fathom retiring completely at any age.
I'm confused why you think retiring early is a bad thing.
I've seen too many people die while working or withing a year of retiring that I want to make sure that I can enjoy parts of my life, and my time is not dominated by the work I have done.
And there is a secondary benefit, too- once I retire, it opens up a position for someone younger to take a good career job that allows them to save really well for retirement, or kids, or whatever they want to do. Basically, it's good for the economy to not hoard way more money than I need and let others have a good job.
Unless you think people are just going to sit around, watching TV and the internet all day long. Most people put something off, or a lot of things off, that they want to do so that they can have a good career. Which is what we will be doing.
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to pheller :
That's something I watched my parents deal with. They are both veterinarians and they owned two practices. Employed 6-10 people each. At the end of the day their businesses we worth the building, discounted contents, and a much smaller than expected amount for the name and records/client base. As much as anything else a buyer was paying to no have to compete by starting a practice in the same area. The overwhelming bulk of the value was in the real estate. Decades of building two businesses and the businesses themselves were worth about a year's pay. If that sounds depressing, my sister owns a restaurant, and that's even worse.
Most small businesses that I've been around are little more than streams of income. This is great when you can figure out how to step away from the work and maintain the stream, but that doesn't happen as often as people like. I've watched a couple people build businesses with the intention of passing them on to their kids. When it was all said and done, they weren't passing on anything more than a job. If their kid didn't have a passion for that same job, then it was a pretty crappy gift.
The only way to sell a business is to hire your replacement. Train him, teach him, mentor him. When you are actually ready to walk away let the bank write the loan for the Realestate and assets. But the rest has to be on a contract between the new and the old. You’re both protected. You know what the business will generate. The new owner will have effectively run the business long enough to get comfortable with the ability to pay.
If you just want cash, you’ll quickly find out how little the bank really thinks of you.
Duke said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
What works in a country the size and population of an average US state (or smaller), with a long history of relatively homogenous ethnic composition, isn't necessarily going to work in America.
And that's about all I'm going to say on that subject.
And the only reply- I don't think you really understand the culture around the people who do that. It's a very different mindset than here in the US- and has nothing to do with homogenous ethnic composition.
The only part I agree with is that it would be virtually impossible to change our culture to accept that. Which is really sad (since my background is is in that culture, and you don't know what you are missing). BTW, it's as far from Communism and Russia as you can get, pretty much.
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