Right Thing, Wrong Time (Job Offer)

So, less than two months after starting a job that I'm happy with, I of course get an offer from another brewing company I've been trying to get a good relationship going with. Well... I sort of get an offer. They clearly want me to come work for them, but they have not told me what the offer is beyond being a Head Brewer position at a particular brewpub about two hours from here. They want me to call them to work everything out. Trouble is, every time I've called they haven't really been able to talk. I've suggested e-mail is a better way to discuss things. Response I got about everything was:

"As for the position, everything is open for discussion. We are looking for a long term relationship and want it to be fair on both ends."

So... want to know that accepting a new position would offer me more opportunities than where I'm at now. Don't really want to move again when I'm still getting settled and SWMBO really REALLY does not want to do another move for about a year. If the offer is good enough, I'm happy to work somewhere two hours away from her. Since they're the ones trying to recruit me rather than me looking for a job, I feel like it's their responsibility to tell me what they're offering and be the proactive ones to contact me.

If they are leaving the offer that open though, does that mean I can potentially dictate the terms? Should I try to milk it for all it's worth? I just don't know.

don't be afraid to tip the scales in your favor, just don't get super greedy.

I was in a similar situation. After starting the position, I wish I had asked for more.

A bunch of years ago I got an offer from a company. I wasn't really looking for a change, but they wanted to know what it would take for me to work for them. I threw out what I thought was a ridiculous number. They took it. Shocked the hell out of me. I went from $30k a year to $50k a year with that switch. Don't be scared to throw a big number. Even if you think it's a joke, they may take you seriously.

This is worth the price charged, but here goes:

I would suggest that you move the dialogue along rather than wait... since your current job seems to be working out... and let the prospective employer know that re-starting your life (again) will require a special opportunity.

Stress to them that a) you are interested but b) you need a more clear understanding of the terms they have in mind.

Do they know your present compensation?

Did your current new employer pay for you to move?

OHSCrifle wrote: This is worth the price charged, but here goes: I would suggest that you move the dialogue along rather than wait... since your current job seems to be working out... and let the prospective employer know that re-starting your life (again) will require a special opportunity. Stress to them that a) you are interested but b) you need a more clear understanding of the terms they have in mind. Do they know your present compensation? Did your current new employer pay for you to move?

This is spot on advice. I would do this and see what happens. It's a great position to be in.

Biggest obstacle will be SWMBO. She adamantly does not want to move again for another year. I am trying to figure out what it will take to make her willing to move. I would be willing to do all the work and cover all the expenses.

Alternately I am trying to decide how sweet the deal would have to be to live two hours away from her or work for a year. Although if work here sticks me on swing shift like it appears they are I wouldnt necessarily be spending much less time with her.

Beer Baron wrote: Biggest obstacle will be SWMBO.

At the end of the day, is a job really worth the sacrificing of (no matter what you think you can do to alleviate it) the stress of your SO?

I've moved 25 times in my life, and I'm not even a military brat (real estate market parents). Moving sucks, but I do what I have to do. Most people I know lived in the same house from birth to high school grad. Moving is stressful, it sucks, and it is a double whammy when life starts to seem to have gotten just a "bit" normal again.

Really, I'd frame this in your mind of what is in it for HER, and what she gets out of it (pros and cons). If the cons for her outweigh the pros for her, as your SO, and also as someone who has already dealt with these shenanigans once (and you've said you've got a good job), it might be best just to sit tight.

Not every opportunity has to be taken. Of course, if you were going to earn an extra $20k per year, well...

HiTempguy wrote: At the end of the day, is a job really worth the sacrificing of (no matter what you think you can do to alleviate it) the stress of your SO?

Nope. And I'm putting in a lot less effort to make this happen than I would otherwise.

Really, I'd frame this in your mind of what is in it for HER, and what she gets out of it (pros and cons). If the cons for her outweigh the pros for her, as your SO, and also as someone who has already dealt with these shenanigans once (and you've said you've got a good job), it might be best just to sit tight. Not every opportunity has to be taken. Of course, if you were going to earn an extra $20k per year, well...

Yeah, it might be an extra $20k/year. It would have to be at least another $10k/year for me to take it. Job is good in that I like the work (although some days it can be hard and dirty), I like the company, and I like the opportunities in the company and prestige if I decide to work elsewhere. However, the current starting pay is crap (although I am pretty sure I can be getting significant raises over the next year or two). Also, the job being offered would be a lot more fun and give me the creative control I won't have where I'm at now.

In my mind moving again when you haven't had a chance to settle in is better than establishing yourself for a year and then taking off.

OHSCrifle wrote: This is worth the price charged, but here goes: I would suggest that you move the dialogue along rather than wait... since your current job seems to be working out... and let the prospective employer know that re-starting your life (again) will require a special opportunity. Stress to them that a) you are interested but b) you need a more clear understanding of the terms they have in mind.

Pretty much what I have in mind

Do they know your present compensation? Did your current new employer pay for you to move?

No and no.

My .02: Something else to consider is just how long a time would you be employed by the new company? Are they willing to commit to something IN WRITING?

I know a guy who was offered a position with an Acura dealership, big increase in pay etc so he sold his house and moved his family ~200 miles, bought a much more expensive house, his wife had to start over in a new job etc. Then six months in, the owner of the dealership sold it and this guy immediately lost his job because the new ownership (a large chain, United Auto) brought in their own management team. No opportunity was given to even apply with the new company, he was called in on a Friday afternoon and dismissed, no severance package etc.

Sales of something as big as a dealership do not happen overnight, the actual sale is normally after roughly a year of negotiation, drawing up contracts etc meaning the upper management was pretty well aware of the impending transfer before this guy was ever hired.

FWIW, my dad also knew this fellow, he called me and asked my opinion of the whole thing before the guy took the job and my advice was not to do it because the previous ownership was pretty well known for high turnover even before the sale. It pays to do your homework, then 'trust, but verify' and get something in writing.

Is $20K worth the extra 4 hours a day, 4hrs x 5days x 50weeks = 1000 hours of driving alone, or $20 an hour. The gas alone is a significant amount of that, say 100 miles at 20 mpg, 5 gallons at $3 @ way or $30 a day, I wouldn't do it for less than $40K to make it worthwhile to drive every day.

Otherwise wait out the year and then see if they still want you.

YMMV

Beer Baron wrote: Job is good in that I like the work (although some days it can be hard and dirty), I like the company, and I like the opportunities in the company and prestige if I decide to work elsewhere. However, the current starting pay is crap (although I am pretty sure I can be getting significant raises over the next year or two). Also, the job being offered would be a lot more fun and give me the creative control I won't have where I'm at now. In my mind moving again when you haven't had a chance to settle in is better than establishing yourself for a year and then taking off.

I am not 100% sure I am following you. Is the current job the one with crap starting pay, and about to move you to swing shift?

Reading between the lines, it appears you want the new job. I'd pester the potential employer, ASAFP.

Has SWMBO started a new job already?

Beer Baron wrote: SWMBO really REALLY does not want to do another move for about a year.

A wise, wise man once said to me, "Never make a decision based on a woman you're not married to."

Hammer out a few more details about the new job, if it's good, take it.

It sounds like you really don't want to do this. However, you are young, and it sounds like a great opportunity. Because of that, I'd figure out an astronomical figure. Then add another 10k to it.

At this point, my biggest frustration is how damned hard it is to get ahold of the guy to find out what the deal is. They decided to contact me and say we need to discuss things ASAP while, the guy is on vacation and he either can't or won't discuss things in e-mail. Don't say, "We need to talk. It's important," and then not be available.

If the offer is good, the way I see it working most likely is that I find housing in the town with the job (they offered me free room in the pub owners' house next door to the brewery), stay there during the week, drive back here Friday after work and get up early to go work Monday morning.

SWMBO is a programmer who works from home and has the ability to relocate just fine. She just doesn't like the hassle of moving (which I understand). The house we are renting is on a month-to-month arrangement, not a lease with some term.

I'm hoping I can get a deal worked out, set up a place where the new job is, and slowly move furnishings over as I travel back and forth on weekends, so we just have one weekend where I hire movers for the big furniture and she doesn't do any lifting, much packing, or spend any money; and can keep working uninterrupted.

mtn wrote: It sounds like you really don't want to do this. However, you are young, and it sounds like a great opportunity. Because of that, I'd figure out an astronomical figure. Then add another 10k to it.

That's greedy. If I was the headhunter and somebody pulled that E36 M3, the offer would be rescinded.

Beer Baron wrote: At this point, my biggest frustration is how damned hard it is to get ahold of the guy to find out what the deal is. They decided to contact me and say we need to discuss things ASAP while, the guy is on vacation and he either can't or won't discuss things in e-mail. Don't say, "We need to talk. It's important," and then not be available. .

Doesn't sound like anybody I'd want to work for.

The ball is in his court. Don't try to contact him again, and you'll see how serious he is(n't).

Zomby Woof wrote: Doesn't sound like anybody I'd want to work for. The ball is in his court. Don't try to contact him again, and you'll see how serious he is(n't).

Got word from him and sounds like things are a bit more in order. We've scheduled to talk mid-day Wednesday. There is a deal going down with his small brewing company and the small brewpub nearby. He wants to discuss what their plans are with me before doing a 3-way conference call in the next couple of weeks.

His junior partner was the one who first contacted me, and made it sound like things were more urgent to get an answer from me than they actually are. Suspect that the senior partner was also not entirely sober when I first called him, since he had been touring through Napa at the time.

So, less sense of urgency now. That relieves some tension for me.

Osterkraut wrote:

mtn wrote: It sounds like you really don't want to do this. However, you are young, and it sounds like a great opportunity. Because of that, I'd figure out an astronomical figure. Then add another 10k to it.

That's greedy. If I was the headhunter and somebody pulled that E36 M3, the offer would be rescinded.

That is the point. They would have to really make it worth it for him.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Good luck with the prospect

mtn wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

mtn wrote: It sounds like you really don't want to do this. However, you are young, and it sounds like a great opportunity. Because of that, I'd figure out an astronomical figure. Then add another 10k to it.

That's greedy. If I was the headhunter and somebody pulled that E36 M3, the offer would be rescinded.

That is the point. They would have to really make it worth it for him.

There's really worth it, and there's greedy. I imagine that's not a good reputation to have in a community I'd imagine is pretty tight-knit, and reputation is always everything.

Osterkraut wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: SWMBO really REALLY does not want to do another move for about a year.

A wise, wise man once said to me, "Never make a decision based on a woman you're not married to."

Who said that? I need to buy his book... It's been a crappy day...

Osterkraut wrote:

mtn wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

mtn wrote: It sounds like you really don't want to do this. However, you are young, and it sounds like a great opportunity. Because of that, I'd figure out an astronomical figure. Then add another 10k to it.

That's greedy. If I was the headhunter and somebody pulled that E36 M3, the offer would be rescinded.

That is the point. They would have to really make it worth it for him.

There's really worth it, and there's greedy. I imagine that's not a good reputation to have in a community I'd imagine is pretty tight-knit, and reputation is always everything.

I am not greedy but I will make the most of being actively recruited to get the best deal for me. I have three figures in my head: bare minimum I will consider moving for, solid number I want and think I am worth, and very high end of what I am potentially worth. If they leave it to me to set an opening figure I will start with the biggest one.

What's new, Baron?