Wanderer wrote: I understand the authorities are not into appeasement, but pick your battles people. I'd just leave this one alone.
You mean like the groups running off the stale farts of the civil rights movement should have chosen a better fight than Treyvon Martin or Michael Brown?
They would have had a much better chance with the Tamir Rice shooting in Cleveland, that is, if anybody even gave a damn what they said anymore.
Wanderer wrote: Well I feel bad for the business owners if they charge the dad, guess they're ready for a round two? I understand the authorities are not into appeasement, but pick your battles people. I'd just leave this one alone.
Well, those business owners also probably want someone to blame for their businesses being destroyed, so this might not apply too much. A bunch of them are pissed because they lost their livelihood when their business burned down...
aircooled wrote:Bobzilla wrote: Break the law, go to jail. That's how it is. The sooner some people learn it, the better off everyone will be.It would be nice if that applied to the Police a bit more often. (the issue they probably should be protesting)
This is true, of course. However, police are also guaranteed a certain amount of immunity due to the nature of their job (in ways like use of force, and etc). This makes perfect sense, too, and I have no argument to it.
Though many cops are actually punished if they are caught being corrupt and dirty cops/ But the news didn't want to run those stories.
yamaha wrote:Wanderer wrote: I understand the authorities are not into appeasement, but pick your battles people. I'd just leave this one alone.You mean like the groups running off the stale farts of the civil rights movement should have chosen a better fight than Treyvon Martin or Michael Brown? They would have had a much better chance with the Tamir Rice shooting in Cleveland, that is, if anybody even gave a damn what they said anymore.
Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were definitely bad fights. They need to get there facts straight if they're going to protest this stuff... Though nothing has really changed with what they police do, just how the media reports it.
As for Tamir Rice, if you've seen the video it's obvious they did what they had to do. The moment they pulled up the guy lifted a weapon on them. It had the orange piece removed so they had no clue it was fake. I feel bad for the twelve year old, but it looks like suicide by cop.
In reply to Wanderer:
You get the behaviour you reward, plan and simple.
That's how we're in this mess to begin with.
Not punishing people when they break the law for fear of what they may do in retaliation sends the message that it's ok to break the law.
If they riot again, come down twice as hard.
If there were some consequences to breaking the law and those consequences are applied to everyone equally, regardless of ethnicity, folks would think twice.
The judges up here in Canada have been handing out slap-on-the-wrist sentences for a while now and the problem is getting worse not better.
In reply to EveryQuarterMile:
Ehh, there hasn't been enough evidence for me to really form an opinion yet on that one.....I'd make a bad journalist evidently, I'd rather wait until most of the facts are in before reporting it.
yamaha wrote: In reply to EveryQuarterMile: Ehh, there hasn't been enough evidence for me to really form an opinion yet on that one.....I'd make a bad journalist evidently, I'd rather wait until most of the facts are in before reporting it.
I have a ton of different news sites I look at from all across the board, just to try and get a good picture. But considering they released the video of the entire thing going down with Tamir Rice, I don't see them acting out of turn at all. We don't know everything yet, but it seems straightforward for that one.
Now as for the Eric Garner case, we need more information. All we got was a single obscured video and I don't like that. Not enough to go on. I'm very careful before I form an opinion on any of these things so this one bothers me because there is such a lack of information.
In reply to Trans_Maro:
Problem is that more than a "slap on the wrist" consequence costs a ton of money. It doesn't have to be fair, but that's why things are that way.
And when they rioted before the media accused the police of "militarizing" when the responded with the necessary force in order to stop them from occurring. It didn't work, either way, and now people hate the Ferguson PD even more.
Trans_Maro wrote: If there were some consequences to breaking the law and those consequences are applied to everyone equally, regardless of ethnicity, folks would think twice.
That's the problem we have locally with natives. I'm two minutes from a reserve. There's a group on the Rez that is constantly doing things that would not end nicely if I did them, but they have a free pass. They shut down highways, occupy and take over building sites, run hundreds of illegal businesses, and do pretty much whatever they feel like doing and nobody will do anything about it.
i can't believe i just +1'd a bobzilla post.
In reply to EveryQuarterMile:
When I get a few minutes I can try to explain the Garner case but even most conservative radio hosts many cops here can't believe there was no indictment, especially given the petty nuisance crime he was being taken in for.
Trans_Maro wrote: I have no frame of reference because I am white but... Would black people get offended if a white person from South Africa called themselves "African American"? The only people I've ever seen who could actually be called "African Canadians" were three guys I used to work with who were whiter than I am. My landlord was black and I'm 99% sure he had never even seen Africa.
The Goode family adopted Ubuntu, a white African baby.
AngryCorvair wrote: i can't believe i just +1'd a bobzilla post.
Do you feel dirty? I feel dirty just KNOWING that someone +1'd a Bobzilla post.
yamaha wrote:z31maniac said: Also for cops, their deaths on duty from felonious acts is at a 54 year low.That just means that policies, training, and equipment are getting better.
I'd put the cause of that equally, if not more, on how violent crime in general has been steadily dropping to all time lows since the 90s.
Dumbasses are shutting down our roads again, at 6 and 10. This E36 M3 is getting old.
Too bad there isn't some way to hold the media accountable for "stoking the fires" as it were.
I'm sure they're to blame for a lot of this, considering the way the stories are distorted.
In reply to Zomby Woof:
I'm familiar with the problem, we have it in B.C. as well.
I realise that there is no way to make up for what was done to the natives here but I also feel that the system we have now makes them dependent and causes a lot of the problems it was intended to fix.
Wally wrote: In reply to EveryQuarterMile: When I get a few minutes I can try to explain the Garner case but even most conservative radio hosts many cops here can't believe there was no indictment, especially given the petty nuisance crime he was being taken in for.
Trust me, I already know all the details that have been released. I don't need anything explained to me.
What it comes down to is that the guy was resisting arrest, which warranted force to be used (it is very clear that he resists arrest in the video). And despite the fact that the media keeps calling it a "chokehold" it was actually a headlock, which restricts one's movement but doesn't cut off air passage (you can tell by the placement of his forearm in the video).
The crime the guy was committing doesn't really matter when it comes to the indictment. The guy was resisting arrest, so they would analyze whether of not the officer acted within legal limits. I have a hard time saying I'm smarter than a grand jury, so there very well may be evidence that we do not know. But even if there was wrong done, it has more to do with the policies of the NYPD then with a single cop.
Trans_Maro wrote: Too bad there isn't some way to hold the media accountable for "stoking the fires" as it were. I'm sure they're to blame for a lot of this, considering the way the stories are distorted.
My thoughts exactly. Darren Wilson could actually bring cases against the media outlets for libel that really harmed him and his career (Huffington Post was one of the worst for this through the whole Ferguson ordeal). I think he should pursue a legal venue against the one reporter that exposed his address to the New York Times.
The media has really created many of the issues being protested. It's ridiculous.
Though here in Austin, TX we have one positive cop story right now: The police sergeant (I believe he was a sergeant) that shot and killed the guy shooting up the APD headquarters with one shot from over 300 feet. The media does not like to report positive stories about cops anymore, but here is one last nice one:
In reply to EveryQuarterMile:
That's because we are berkeleying tired of this E36 M3 here in Indiana and keep our local media outlets in check while holding them accountable. We must have somehow kept our collective morals.
yamaha wrote: In reply to EveryQuarterMile: That's because we are berkeleying tired of this E36 M3 here in Indiana and keep our local media outlets in check while holding them accountable. We must have somehow kept our collective morals.
I'm tired of everyones E36 M3. Here, TV, everywhere. Quit protesting, acting on crap.you don't know about and go back.to berkeleying work.
Trans_Maro wrote: Too bad there isn't some way to hold the media accountable for "stoking the fires" as it were. I'm sure they're to blame for a lot of this, considering the way the stories are distorted.
It's coming and when it happens, everybody will be looking for a way to make the media pay (which has had a free ride for a long time) for pretty much everything they can get away with. And the media will be reporting on it. And nothing will change.
In reply to EveryQuarterMile:
The reason I feel there should have been an indictment is that in NY the grand jury simply was to see if the evidence showed if the officer's actions could have led to the suspects death, not to find if he was criminally guilty. The threshold is far lower. Unfortunately the Grand Juries in New York are sealed so we will never know what went on.
I have seen the NYPD make many of these arrests. Everyone of them has had that much or more resistance. What generally happens is that one or two cops talk with the guy he calms down and when he's not paying attention two other cops grab an arm and he's cuffed and on his way before he knows what happens. On occasion you get an officer who is tired of arresting the same guy over and over again and his temper gets the best of him. From all the evidence that has been released this is what happened which shows he was negligent. I don't believe it was intensional but it is certainly worth of a trial to see all the facts. I doubt he would be convicted criminally but going through the process would have ensued everyone acted correctly.
The part that bothers me knowing the area and dealing with people like Mr Garner is the feeling that there was no evidence clearing the officer but that jurors were happy one of these skels were off the street. Under the new mayor these guys have become very aggressive they hurt the businesses in the areas they are in blocking entrances asking for money, they follow women to train stations until they give them money. No one wants them around and certainly didn't mind that a cop killed one. As much as I understand the sentiment as I have had a number of run ins with these piles of human debris we still have to treat them like people while we are collecting a check from the city.
Wally wrote: The reason I feel there should have been an indictment is that in NY the grand jury simply was to see if the evidence showed if the officer's actions could have led to the suspects death, not to find if he was criminally guilty....
From what I hear, that really is the "problem" they should be protesting / trying to change. The prosecutor that is presenting these cases to the grand jurys against these officers, is the same prosecutor that works WITH these officers on most all other case to prosecute criminals. It's a bit of a "self-policing" situation.
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