Safety systems sometimes scare me

I work in a dealership for a major car manufacturer. Most of the cars we sell have pretty amazing technology designed and advertised to help keep us safer. I usually am of the mindset, at least for my personal junk, that these systems are just more that can go wrong and cost money. That said, one of the considerations when buying my wife's new car was safety.

Anyway, this morning a customer came in who bought a new van last week, and was raving about how nice the new systems are. Things like lane change alert and blind spot warnings. I genuinely am glad to see happy customers, but this got me thinking. This particular customer is well into his 80s. I don't think old people should be banned from driving and I can see where these systems are really helpful, but I worry that as these safety nannies become more common that people may learn to rely on them too much, and start to neglect habits we should all have as we drive, i.e. checking blind spots, watching speed, signal use...

What does the collective think about all these new technologies? Are they good? Are they bad? I really see both sides and just want to see what other people think.

I think the technologies are going to reach the point where it's OK for people to rely on them too much sooner than people's over-reliance on those technologies becomes a major problem. There are going to be some accidents in the transitional period though, like that Tesla that ran clean into the back of a parked firetruck the other day. Apparently today's semi-autonomous cars aren't good at noticing when someone changes lanes in front of you and reveals a large stationary obstacle.

I agree with you.  Soon we will have rail systems in the roads that you lock in to with your "car" and a computer will take over.  

In reply to barefootskater :

Yeh nasty old safety stuff. Let’s go back to hand cranking cars to start them and wooden spoked wheels. 

Remember the good old days when 60,000 people a year would die in auto accidents?  Now days national fatalities are down to numbers from the 20’s and 30’s. 

I do hope you understand sarcasm.  I’ll stop now.  

That guy in his 80’s? He’s had 65 + years of checking his mirrors and looking over his shoulder.  I applaud him for recognizing traffic density is much higher now and he can use some help.  

Not everyone is a perfect driver and scolding people for mistakes is not the right way to make them perfect.  

Yes self driving cars are not yet perfect.  That does not mean they won’t get better.  Nor does it mean they aren’t already better than many drivers.  

I would have to guess this is approximately the 832nd time this topic has been brought up on this board. 

In reply to z31maniac :

I was thinking the same thing.

z31maniac said:

I would have to guess this is approximately the 832nd time this topic has been brought up on this board. 

Minimum.

z31maniac said:

I would have to guess this is approximately the 832nd time this topic has been brought up on this board. 

Ya but we are running low on dead horses.   

A shiny stainless steel spike mounted in the middle of the steering wheel would make some people pay closer attention, but might not be an ideal solution.

I presume a guy would get used to all the flashing and beeping if you drove the same car for a while, but driving different cars all the time, I find it terribly distracting.  "What the hell is it yelling at me for now??" 

I have these gizmos on one of my cars now.  I like them more than I want to like them.  With the poor outward visibility of modern cars, it comes in handy.

One that I specifically do not like is the LCD rear view mirror. I never use it because of eye lag changing focal distances switching back and forth between looking out the windows and close focusing on the LCD.   Quick glances are impossible, the human eye takes too long switching.

While some of the safety features offered today do truely make cars safer, I think too many just promote relying on the nannies to save you because you weren't pay attention. I frequently hear people talking about how they can do "X" because the car will take over. Scarry that we share the roads with these people.

Streetwiseguy said:

I presume a guy would get used to all the flashing and beeping if you drove the same car for a while, but driving different cars all the time, I find it terribly distracting.  "What the hell is it yelling at me for now??" 

^ This. I rent cars all the time for work and last week I got some KIA Cute Ute thingy that saving me from certain death and probably saved the lives of several dozen pedestrians as well by letting me know that my steering wheel was turned when I started the engine. Boy that was close, I usually start my trips by flooring it with my eyes closed.

The newest car I own is a 1997 Eclipse. I won't buy anything newer. I don't need a car that thinks it's smarter than I am. I am fully capable of operating the controls all by myself. I believe if they'd let me purchase a brand new car equipped the way I want it, I could get it for about $2,500.

Almost didn't buy my Outback.  Salesman gave me one with all those "nannies" on it to test drive.  Since it was just the wife and I for 1/2 hour I gave it a real test.  All that light flashing and beeping really turned me off and I told the salesman so when we got back.  Fortunately he had one without all that stuff to try.

I was thinking the same sort of thing, on my morning commute in my '77 C10 on an icy slick road, when someone moved just as if they were going to pull in front of me.

They didn't, but I have no stability control, traction control, or ABS.  I have a brain, eyes, ears, mirrors, and (questionable) intellect. I can gauge how well I and others should be able to stop given the level of traction and no nannies.

I'm waiting for the time when my insurance no longer covers me, because my "old" vehicle has no safety features.

Seeing how many people drive around here, I think the nannies are a darned fine idea. Although some of the nannies can be pretty annoying - like lane departure warnings in urban driving - tight lanes, bike lane stripes, fire dept. road stripes... - looking at you mercedes with the vibrating seats and beeps

Give me the cross traffic alert for backing out of parking spots and back up cameras but stuff the rest in a dumpster.  

As far as bad drivers go... most people are going to drive at minimum twice a day, every day, from the time they are 16 till they die or someone takes the keys away.  There’s something else that most people do once or twice a day, and I sure hope they’re better skilled at that then they are at driving... or more people are really wearing depends all day than one would think. 

ncjay said:

The newest car I own is a 1997 Eclipse. I won't buy anything newer. I don't need a car that thinks it's smarter than I am. I am fully capable of operating the controls all by myself. I believe if they'd let me purchase a brand new car equipped the way I want it, I could get it for about $2,500.

 

No offense, but they are smarter than you are.  And smarter than I am. 

If you don't want anything newer than '97, great, but don't complain if you come out on the loosing end in an accident with a newer car.

Sure, I understand the idea why people complain about them, and believe me, I fully understand challenges and pitfalls...probably more than many here considering what I do for a living.  I also see the other side of it, and it's an incredibly bright one.  Drivers have to adapt, and learn to work with the technologies, not think the technology does all the work for them.  Those beeps and lights can be annoying, no doubt.  But if you ask me which car I'd rather run into a wall at 35mph in...a 1991 Lincoln Towncar or a 2018 Honda Civic...I'll take the Honda every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Some of the tech in cars now is pretty impressive. The self parking stuff always weirds me out. Probably always will. But some stuff (blid spot warning, tpms, back up cameras) you'd have a hard time convincing me is bad. 

The constant beeps and crap out of some of those cars can be super annoying but overall I feel like they are good for a majority of people. And backup cameras are nice especially for parallel parking and I'd assume hitching trailers.

I just wish you could see out of modern cars.

Of course I have never owned anything built in this century but I image when we have a kid one day that will change. The trouble is there is very little made post '00 that I have any interest in. 

I wonder if people were having this same conversation when they started putting seatbelts in cars? "People aren't going to try to avoid crashes because they think their fancy schmancy lap belt will save their life! I don't have no lap belts in my '32 Plymouth, I have this thing called a brain." And on and on it went. 

A couple weeks ago I came within inches of backing into a car in a gas station parking lot. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that the driver was still in the other car, he realized I didn't see him, and blew his horn. If he hadn't it would have been my steel bumper vs his door and fender, and it would have been very expensive. Now if a car can watch all angles all the time and save me from myself I don't think that's bad.

ncjay said:

The newest car I own is a 1997 Eclipse. I won't buy anything newer. I don't need a car that thinks it's smarter than I am. I am fully capable of operating the controls all by myself. I believe if they'd let me purchase a brand new car equipped the way I want it, I could get it for about $2,500.

 

Uh, no.  You'd barely see the actual cost difference.  The entire reason most of these systems are on cars is that they are so cheap to produce.   Sensors are cheap, computers are cheap, software is free (other than development).  It may be astonishing to hear that there are more than 10 computers running stuff on cars these days, but remember there's another thread right now that points out that you can get a full blown raspberry pi computer for $35- and that's the commercial price to you for a general machine.  Cut the machine down to proper size, and bump up the volume to millions at a time- they are cheap- more like Arduino cheap.

It's also not just a matter of smarter or not- but more skillful.  You'd have to get in the top of the top racing drivers to find someone who can outperform ABS.  And, yea, I know about the gravel and snow excuses that have come on over the years- but be honest- how often do you REALLY drive in deep gravel or snow?  Same for traction control.  If all drivers who said they were so skilled at traction control and ABS were that skilled, the amount of really high quality racing drivers would an order of magnitude higher.

I like the *concept* of having a simple car, too- which means my '99 Miata will always be in my fleet.  But I know that the 2016 Focus I drive right now is a far safer car in every single aspect of driving.  Far as I can tell, I've not lost the skills I had, and processes I use to drive- they are just enhanced with the computers.

gearheadmb said:

I wonder if people were having this same conversation when they started putting seatbelts in cars? "People aren't going to try to avoid crashes because they think their fancy schmancy lap belt will save their life! I don't have no lap belts in my '32 Plymouth, I have this thing called a brain." And on and on it went. 

A couple weeks ago I came within inches of backing into a car in a gas station parking lot. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that the driver was still in the other car, he realized I didn't see him, and blew his horn. If he hadn't it would have been my steel bumper vs his door and fender, and it would have been very expensive. Now if a car can watch all angles all the time and save me from myself I don't think that's bad.

People used to think it was safer to be thrown free of the car and that being trapped in it via a belt was way more dangerous.  So, yes, people had this conversation with seat belts.

I don’t have a problem with the safety stuff if/when it works well. Unfortunately the vehicles I’ve driven with lane departure warning, traction control, and blind spot warning have not convinced me that the technology is helpful.

In all cases the computer assist felt, to me, clunky and distracting. I was left with the feeling that the systems were slower to notice things than I was and, in the case of traction control, more of a hindrance in icy driving than a help.

My experience has been with a new Transit, our 2012 Focus, and a Chrysler minivan.

In reply to alfadriver :

I'd bet that even the most skilled race car driver in any discipline couldn't outperform a top level ABS system or even traction/stability control.

And no, I am not saying we should willfully turn all control over to computers.  I love running around a race track in a 25 year old pick up truck with minimal electronics...around 100 other cars in the same boat.  But there's no denying the computers are smarter and more capable than I am.