Saving for kids' college

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

but.. I like my degree in early 20th century sci fi fiction... So useful.. Did you want a venti or grande mocha?

I am reminded of this...

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

I brew my own coffee and take it with me. The money I'm not spending on your overpriced black stuff is going into my 401k.

mtn wrote:

The_Jed wrote: I'll definitely be watching this thread. Helping my kids with college, in every aspect, not just financially, is a huge concern of mine. I would like their experiences to mirror those of MTN, and be as different as possible to my own. We discuss career paths almost daily. My daughter loves insects and being outdoors so she has decided she wants to be an entomologist, I fully support this. My son is completely obsessed with vehicles (like a deep GRM level obsession, not the "normal" 8 year old boy stuff) and has fantastic mechanical aptitude, so I'm gently pushing him toward mechanical engineering. Right now I'm socking away around $50 per week, sometimes less, sometimes more. There's only about 8 years left before the oldest reaches college age...YIKES!!!

Jed, feel free to send me a PM off the board and I'll fill you in with what I know (and post stuff here that is "general" knowledge and not quite so personal). Having a brother with a mechanical inclination but little math ability, be careful--my brother flunked out of his ME major. If your son really does want to do that you might consider supplementing his Mathematics curriculum at an early age.

I've got to say that I'm pretty damn bad at math, and struggled mightily through my 4 semesters of college calc, yet still managed (barely) to graduate with my bachelors in ME. Definitely not the fun way through that degree, and I'm not disagreeing with MTN that supplementing his math education in some way is a good idea, my point is merely that he should not be discouraged from pursuing that when the time comes just because he isn't Rain Man in terms of his math skills. I know some very good engineers who aren't that great at math but have excellent mechanical aptitude, and some very bad ones who rock at solving equations but have zero aptitude.

Sorry if I'm ranting, I just think a lot of students get discouraged from STEM paths because they think they aren't good enough at math.

Furious_E wrote:

mtn wrote:

The_Jed wrote: I'll definitely be watching this thread. Helping my kids with college, in every aspect, not just financially, is a huge concern of mine. I would like their experiences to mirror those of MTN, and be as different as possible to my own. We discuss career paths almost daily. My daughter loves insects and being outdoors so she has decided she wants to be an entomologist, I fully support this. My son is completely obsessed with vehicles (like a deep GRM level obsession, not the "normal" 8 year old boy stuff) and has fantastic mechanical aptitude, so I'm gently pushing him toward mechanical engineering. Right now I'm socking away around $50 per week, sometimes less, sometimes more. There's only about 8 years left before the oldest reaches college age...YIKES!!!

Jed, feel free to send me a PM off the board and I'll fill you in with what I know (and post stuff here that is "general" knowledge and not quite so personal). Having a brother with a mechanical inclination but little math ability, be careful--my brother flunked out of his ME major. If your son really does want to do that you might consider supplementing his Mathematics curriculum at an early age.

I've got to say that I'm pretty damn bad at math, and struggled mightily through my 4 semesters of college calc, yet still managed (barely) to graduate with my bachelors in ME. Definitely not the fun way through that degree, and I'm not disagreeing with MTN that supplementing his math education in some way is a good idea, my point is merely that he should not be discouraged from pursuing that when the time comes just because he isn't Rain Man in terms of his math skills. I know some very good engineers who aren't that great at math but have excellent mechanical aptitude, and some very bad ones who rock at solving equations but have zero aptitude. Sorry if I'm ranting, I just think a lot of students get discouraged from STEM paths because they think they aren't good enough at math.

And I don't disagree with you, but if you can't get through Calc III and Dif EQ, it is a moot conversation as you won't get the degree.

(I was a Math major, and am not all that mechanically inclined)

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

And those same people that claim they are "ruined" by $152k in debt for nearly double the effective earnings are "bankrupt" when they miss one paycheck. The average person with only a high school diploma earned $23,900/year in 2015, versus $48,500 for their college graduate peer group. It doesn't take long to pay off $152k with over $20k/year in additional earnings. Of course the average person takes on a lifestyle that saddles them with expenses beyond the increase in earnings - but does that mean a smart person should turn down $152k in debt for a million dollars in extra earnings in their lifetime? Of course not.

Tuition growth has been ridiculous, and people need better financial education to be sure. But the student loan crisis is pretty seriously overblown.

dculberson wrote: Tuition growth has been ridiculous, and people need better financial education to be sure. But the student loan crisis is pretty seriously overblown.

Agreed. The people I know that struggle with student loan debt also live in nicer places than me (although that is changing on my front), have better phones and data packages, and more tv channels. They usually buy cars new and get Starbucks daily.

My wife and I struggle with our student loan debt only because we put too much towards our 401k's and are on the most aggressive repayment plan the loan service offered.

Look at what the average person has today that they can't live without. Much of it is new in the past 20 years, and unnecessary. Did we get wage increases for cell phones? What about for internet packages? Cable packages? Look hard at your life and decide if you need it or not--and no, you don't need to check instagram every 5 minutes. Then tell my wife to stop using her data all the time.

mtn wrote:

Furious_E wrote:

mtn wrote:

The_Jed wrote: I'll definitely be watching this thread. Helping my kids with college, in every aspect, not just financially, is a huge concern of mine. I would like their experiences to mirror those of MTN, and be as different as possible to my own. We discuss career paths almost daily. My daughter loves insects and being outdoors so she has decided she wants to be an entomologist, I fully support this. My son is completely obsessed with vehicles (like a deep GRM level obsession, not the "normal" 8 year old boy stuff) and has fantastic mechanical aptitude, so I'm gently pushing him toward mechanical engineering. Right now I'm socking away around $50 per week, sometimes less, sometimes more. There's only about 8 years left before the oldest reaches college age...YIKES!!!

Jed, feel free to send me a PM off the board and I'll fill you in with what I know (and post stuff here that is "general" knowledge and not quite so personal). Having a brother with a mechanical inclination but little math ability, be careful--my brother flunked out of his ME major. If your son really does want to do that you might consider supplementing his Mathematics curriculum at an early age.

I've got to say that I'm pretty damn bad at math, and struggled mightily through my 4 semesters of college calc, yet still managed (barely) to graduate with my bachelors in ME. Definitely not the fun way through that degree, and I'm not disagreeing with MTN that supplementing his math education in some way is a good idea, my point is merely that he should not be discouraged from pursuing that when the time comes just because he isn't Rain Man in terms of his math skills. I know some very good engineers who aren't that great at math but have excellent mechanical aptitude, and some very bad ones who rock at solving equations but have zero aptitude. Sorry if I'm ranting, I just think a lot of students get discouraged from STEM paths because they think they aren't good enough at math.

And I don't disagree with you, but if you can't get through Calc III and Dif EQ, it is a moot conversation as you won't get the degree. (I was a Math major, and am not all that mechanically inclined)

Ugh, now you're just dredging up some horrific repressed memories . All I'm saying is that is you're not truly good enough, but that's the path you want to take, find that out the hard way. Can always revert to Plan B.

In reply to mtn:

The offer is much appreciated, and I will likely take you up on that. :)

He is very gifted in mathematics as well, no worries there. I try to make the most of every day opportunities for education, but could always use some advice on things that may better prepare him (and her) for higher education.

dculberson wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: And those same people that claim they are "ruined" by $152k in debt for nearly double the effective earnings are "bankrupt" when they miss one paycheck. The average person with only a high school diploma earned $23,900/year in 2015, versus $48,500 for their college graduate peer group. It doesn't take long to pay off $152k with over $20k/year in additional earnings. Of course the average person takes on a lifestyle that saddles them with expenses beyond the increase in earnings - but does that mean a smart person should turn down $152k in debt for a million dollars in extra earnings in their lifetime? Of course not. Tuition growth has been ridiculous, and people need better financial education to be sure. But the student loan crisis is pretty seriously overblown.

I don't disagree with you. However, imagine coming straight out of college and being saddled with what is essentially a pretty good sized mortgage payment, right away. Yes, this debt was taken on voluntarily. However, it seems pretty strange to me that I was able to get a 4 year engineering degree and walk out of school with what (at the time) was a pretty good car payment's worth of a student loan, and that same education now requires a mortgage's worth of a loan.

The crisis isn't necessarily in student loans, it's in the cost of higher education. It's increased faster than any other cost in the country- more than health care, which is it's own sore subject. But, like health care, you've got essentially unlimited demand and a very finite supply. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where the cost is going to go. Add on top of that all these "generous" loans, and "easy" money provided to a group of people who barely have any experience of what it's like to earn a buck or deal with a budget....yeah, there's a problem.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

Great points. I have 2 comments:

1. College kids are the golden market for marketers and companies. They are naive, and they are spending from nearly unlimited coffers of money that they haven't even had to earn yet.
2. At least in health care, the doctors/providers get paid a butt-ton of money. Teachers and professors are highly underpaid, so where is all this university money going?

Robbie wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: Great points. I have 2 comments: 1. College kids are the golden market for marketers and companies. They are naive, and they are spending from nearly unlimited coffers of money *that they haven't even had to earn yet*. 2. At least in health care, the doctors/providers get paid a butt-ton of money. Teachers and professors are highly underpaid, so where is all this university money going?

1. Exactly

2. Management and Administration. There's now more people working at colleges who don't ever teach a single class. There's also been a butt-ton of money spent on luxury accommodations, gyms, multi-million dollar student centers, etc. My alma-mater just plunked down 9 figure money for some state-of-the-art electronic media center.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

gulp. 9? as in hundreds of millions?

Was it farted on by Kanye West or something?

Damn. I'm impressed some of you guys are hitting those 401k/Roth limits. $47k or 23.5k (single income) into savings every year is damn good.

I save a small amount in a 529 for my son & a small monthly contribution. I'm more focused on our family finances by shoving a ton of money into 401k, Roth IRAs, and investments (and currently my wife's MBA). If we are in a great position financially when the boy hits college age, I'll be happy to help out a bit. The hope is that I will be retired by then. If so, I don't mind working at a job of my choosing for a few years to help the kids get through school... but it will be something I enjoy with hours I enjoy.

I fully intend to have discussions prior to school about getting a useful degree, doing so with cost of the degree in mind, saving money, and a realistic salary & expense expectations upon graduation.

I'm thankful that I made most of the right choices in that regard purely by accident, and that my parents helped me out with school so much. Were I to do it now I'd be taking the much cheaper route to an engineering degree and leaving the extra $ in my parents pocket or in my investments.

Robbie wrote: 2. At least in health care, the doctors/providers get paid a butt-ton of money. Teachers and professors are highly underpaid, so where is all this university money going?

My college Chemistry professor made 6 figures/year and actually taught less than a dozen lectures per semester. His TAs (grad students) handled the rest of the lectures and all of the labs. He taught the same content year after year too, so he was just repeating the same info on the same slides that he'd put together years prior.

It might be an outlier, but there's plenty of money to be made working in higher education.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

9 figure electronic media center? Does it go by a 5 letter acronym? We very well may have attended the same college, there can't be that many multi hundred million dollar media centers out there...

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

I won't argue against those points; I certainly agree. And find it telling that at the same time as state budget cuts and massive tuition hikes the local state university built a $250mm rec center and a $1.2bn hospital expansion. I'm sure the hospital funds probably don't come from tuition dollars but it's still breathtaking.

Furious_E wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: 9 figure electronic media center? Does it go by a 5 letter acronym? We very well may have attended the same college, there can't be that many multi hundred million dollar media centers out there...

Ha, ditto.

Furious_E wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: 9 figure electronic media center? Does it go by a 5 letter acronym? We very well may have attended the same college, there can't be that many multi hundred million dollar media centers out there...

Ha, very possible. Does your alma mater go by (or, at least, historically...) a three-letter abbreviation?

Interesting to see at least 2 other potential graduates of my undergrad college on this forum, commenting on this topic.

dculberson wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: I won't argue against those points; I certainly agree. And find it telling that at the same time as state budget cuts and massive tuition hikes the local state university built a $250mm rec center and a $1.2bn hospital expansion. I'm sure the hospital funds probably don't come from tuition dollars but it's still breathtaking.

Yeah, but where DO you think those hospital dollars came from?

This:

As a former 529 owner, I was pretty much already sold on it for our little one. Simple reason: the 529 my parents set up for me survived 2 rounds of probate court with lawyers trying to go after it (which is a separate level of screwed up...). I'm well aware of how the money can be distributed with and without penalty.

My basic reasoning for the 529 is that I work hard to fund it for my daughter. If she uses it for higher education, great. If not, she can get it and pay the penalty. There's the other option that if she doesn't go on to higher education, but another child does the money can be transferred. I know that second part differs from state to state though, so check with your advisor.

We did the 529 which was okay but it allow any generous relative, like Grandpa to also send in funds for a birthday or Christmas gift.

Also look at the price of school as you would the sticker of a new car – your goal is to see how you can reduce the cost. Here is what my son did to get his college costs down.

1. He studied hard in high school and took AP classes and tests. This allowed him to get college credit and skip his last semester.

2. He applied for every scholarship in high school – he hit a few - $500, $1,000, and a $1,500. Not a lot but he then hit a local road contractor that gave him $20,000 to use.

3. He worked every break and summer and saved all his money. He saved enough to pay the tuition bill for one semester.

4. He was an RA for two years. That helped save $2,000 each year.

5. He cut out the schools cafeteria food plan the last two years and cooked for himself – he figured he cut out $2,000 off his yearly school bill.

6. He left school with $21,000 in federal loans and since he is in grad school can defer them until he finishes. He told me the other day he has them down to $18,000.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

Yup, that's it haha. Grand opening was during my first semester of freshman year. I could go off on a massive rant on that thing, but I'll do my best to resist.

If you and I are 1 and 2, who's the third GRM member?

Edit: Nvm, I'm retarded.

In reply to mikeatrpi:

Your 280Z isn't yellow is it?