ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter)
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/19/25 9:29 p.m.

tl;dr:

I have my old house sold, but cannot find an installer that can provide a replacement heat pump, despite months of trying. The obstacles seem to be a lack of installers who work on heat pumps, a nationwide heat pump shortage, and frequent mandated refrigerant changes which apparently make it impossible to fix units running last-year's refrigerant-du-jour, and I'm risking losing the house sale as a result. Does that sound legit, or am I being taken for a ride?

Full-blown details for those who are interested:

I bought a new row-house style condo spring of last year, and put my old high-rise condo up for sale. The heat/cooling in the old place is via heat pump and had been acting up, so fixing it went on the list of pre-sale action items.

The old heat pump is a Whalen water/air unit that heats/cools my unit. The compressor, condenser, and air handler are inside my unit in a closet and are my responsibility as owner. The evaporator is outside the building (I believe on the roof) and is the HOAs responsibility, and I believe they may be interconnected/shared. This is in a 26-story high rise built in 2006-2007.

I was struggling to find anyone to come out and look at it, so my real estate agent offered to take over that task and utilize his connections to get bids, and with my approval, schedule the work. He did not have an easy time either, and eventually we got some assessments and bids.

The old compressor had failed, and theoretically could be rebuilt, but isn't allowed to because it uses a refrigerant that isn't allowed anymore as of 2024. Replacing the entire compressor involves removing the chassis from the building and taking the unit offsite, and the cost of doing so matched or exceeded replacing the entire thing, and there were doubts expressed that such a replacement compressor would be available and compatible, so we started down the replacement path.

The HVAC installer said that the new heat pump was backordered, but hopefully should be available soon. Fast forward a few months and a few delays, and the first update of any substance beyond delays is that we are down to the wire in terms of timing before yet another mandated refrigerant changeover, but that we should OK as we placed the order while the old was still allowed, and therefore won't run afoul of 2025 rules even if installing it in the new year. I was told that there are widespread shortages of heat pumps and associated parts, and it could be weeks.

The market here has been dismally slow. No showings, let alone offers. I did a bunch of work, a few upgrades, dropped the price significantly, had two open houses, and zero people showed up. There was only one comparable unit sold in the previous four months, and a dozen comparable units on the market. Mine was in great condition, and priced very aggressively. Good news in late December! I got an asking-price cash offer, contingent upon a home inspection. My agent had been up front about the condition of the heat pump and the scheduled replacement. The buyer's repair addendum was brief, replace the heat pump as had been discussed, and replace one outlet and one old smoke detector by mid-February. Cool! We had a guy out to fix the outlet and detector within a day and a half.

Here we are nearing the end of January, and there is still no ETA on the heat pump we ordered last year! The HVAC folks say there are still nationwide shortages.

As a backup, my agent sought some more bids. The only one we got is over twice as much as the earlier bid we accepted last year! $20k for a new heat pump, all due to a failed compressor! The explanation is that there are limited options that are compatible with the building-side part of the system, 2025 refrigerant-compatible, and fit within the closet (average-sized, roughly 4' x 3.5' x 8' tall or so.) 

Does all this check out or am I being taken for a ride? Any ideas on alternatives from folks familiar with HVAC?

I really don't want to lose this buyer, but I don't know how to get the repair done. However it happens, the contractor needs to bonded to keep the HOA happy, and I need receipts to keep the buyer happy, so sadly no DIY compressor rebuild and re-charge! When I started calling around in spring 2024, about 9/10 local HVAC companies said they don't service heat pumps like mine and that I should call someone else. I wouldn't suspect a 2006-ish water/air heat pump is a rare and finicky beast, or so old that it is obsolete. Did I somehow unknowingly age quickly and end up as the homeowner equivalent of the old man calling around to local general auto repair shops, baffled as to why nobody can service the points and multiple Webers on my 60's European exotic? 🤣

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
1/19/25 9:59 p.m.

With some margin of error, most of what you are saying checks out.

The Federal regulations for new refrigerant went into effect 1/1.  It is illegal for vendors to sell 2024 systems, and every time these requirements are upgraded there is a long delay in getting new spec units into the pipeline. So delays and shortages don't seem unusual.

Heat pumps are super common, but not in your area of the country. So installers may be in short supply.

However, older spec refrigerant is always available for repairs to older units. It was probably a mistake to consider a new unit instead of rebuilding the old compressor.

Any chance of renegotiating the contract to allow repair instead of replacement?

Maybe call HVAC contractors in the South (where heat pumps are common) to find a licensed/ bonded rebuilder?  Could you ship the compressor unit for a rebuild and have a local person install it and charge the system?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
1/20/25 8:01 a.m.

Sounds plausible, and it sucks.  Good luck!

11GTCS
11GTCS SuperDork
1/20/25 9:42 a.m.

Can you post a picture of the Whalen unit nameplate? I can try to find out what you have specifically and hopefully get you some straight answers.  

Whalen units are made for buildings with repeating floor plates (high rise condos, apartments, dormitories)  The heat pump section is typically a chassis that can be removed from the base unit fairly easily by disconnecting the water hoses and the electrical harness.  The chassis includes the compressor, the refrigerant to water heat exchanger, the refrigerant reversing valve and the indoor air coil / associated refrigeration piping. The base unit has the fan, condenser water piping that extends up and down to the other floors and duct passages to your unit built into it.  They're pretty specific to the application so I'm afraid the best you can do is hope for a replacement chassis or replace the bad compressor in the one you have. 

Nothing I'm aware of prevents replacement of the unit compressor from a refrigerant regulation perspective, the contractor would be required to recover and re-use or recycle the existing refrigerant.  R-410a and R-22 are still available to purchase as a recycled product, R-22 is getting very expensive now as it has been out of production for more than 10 years.

The new refrigerants proposed to replace R-410a are R-32 (major ingredient in R-410a) and R-454b.  Both of these new refrigerants are classified as "A2L" meaning they are slightly flammable.  There's still a lot of confusion as to what if anything will change in terms of sensors and controls due to the slight flammability, add to that the mandated switch in production to the new refrigerants and you have a shortage of replacement equipment.  For what it's worth both R-32 and R-454b have been in use in the EU and Asia for several years already.

Edit for a link to a Whalen replacement chassis catalog: 

https://whalencompany.com/images/site_images/Products/Literature/Whisperline-Heat-Pumps/bro/WL046_Whalen_1234_Version_Chassis_Brochure-0623.pdf

 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle PowerDork
1/20/25 9:49 a.m.

I always cringed when I see apartments and condos with a literal forest of "split system" condensing units filling the roof. Always thought a high efficiency central cooling tower (like a high rise office building has) would be highly desirable.

But apparently.. today I learned. Twenty years later and you're berkeleyed. I'm so sorry. Hopefully @11GTCS investigation will bear some fruit.  

11GTCS
11GTCS SuperDork
1/20/25 9:58 a.m.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

I think this is more an issue with contractors looking to take advantage of a customer.  Replacement of the compressor and reversing valve is allowed and would be the quickest path to resolving this if they can find a contractor to make the repair.  

Most apartment buildings with this type of unit have a few spare chassis in the maintenance shop so they can swap them out in the tenant's unit quickly and then repair them in the shop.  I personally changed plenty of compressors / reversing valves when I was in the van, it's pretty common. 

To the OP:  See if you can find a commercial contractor (as opposed to residential) that's willing to make the repair.  You might reach out to the building manager to see who they use.  These type of systems are more familiar to the commercial market and you might have better luck.  I'm on the opposite coast so of little help otherwise. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
1/20/25 10:32 a.m.

 

11GTCS Nailed it. 

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter)
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/20/25 8:05 p.m.

Thanks for all the super-helpful replies so far! This place really is the best.

I made it over to the old place this evening to snap some photos. Here's the whole thing with the front cover and filter removed.

Here's the tags/labels:

11GTCS
11GTCS SuperDork
1/20/25 8:18 p.m.

In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :

That information should help.  My new office is next door to the MA Whalen reps, I'll ping my contact tomorrow and see what I can find out about replacement chassis availability, at least then you'll know if they're back ordered or not.  (The chassis is the lower part with the indoor coil / behind the filter. ) 

I still recommend seeing if you can get a local commercial contractor to quote replacing the compressor if you can.

Edit: Just found some installation / operating / maintenance information that may be helpful.  Note that you're only replacing the chassis in this unit as the building piping risers are part of the main unit.  That means going to Whalen for the replacement chassis.

https://whalencompany.com/images/site_images/Products/Literature/Whisperline-Heat-Pumps/iom/IOM-WA-VI-CL.pdf

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter)
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/20/25 9:17 p.m.

In reply to 11GTCS :

Much appreciated! I will check out the link you shared this evening and call around for some additional quotes tomorrow!

11GTCS
11GTCS SuperDork
1/21/25 7:43 a.m.

In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :

I just reached out to the Whalen rep, I'll update when I hear something.  This company appears to make replacement chassis for Whalen units and the site shows there's a rep in Oregon, might be worthwhile to share: https://coldpointcorp.com/products/all-water-source-products/vertical-stack-chassis/adirondack-aire-vi/

 

11GTCS
11GTCS SuperDork
1/21/25 12:06 p.m.

In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :

Update, i just heard back from the Whalen rep; their current lead time to ship from placement of an order for these units is running 8-10 weeks.  Sorry that I don't have better news.  Hopefully you'll be able to find someone who can repair the existing chassis for a reasonable price.

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter)
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/21/25 5:06 p.m.

In reply to 11GTCS :

Thank you so much; I really appreciate the help!

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