I am not exactly sure how anyone can possibly defend the kids/parents involved in this.......I seriously cannot even fathom in my mind how anyone could. My dad would have told them to at least take me to Juvie after beating me half to death in front of the cops. If this weren't in NY, I can assure you the parents would be held liable for damages. Also, why were these kids NOT taken to a juvenile hall IMMEDIATELY?!?!?
I'm not defending the kids or parents. I said that in my first post.
It appears this guy has legal grounds to do what he did. A little google makes it look like he has to of announced that he is making a citizens arrest but that he can do that for any offense he witnessed. Personally I stand by I would not make that choice as he still will have to defend himself and it is possible he did wrong with the law. I was surprised to learn that it does appear in most States you can make a citizens arrest of any person so it seems minors are included. It does seem that in most states property owners are allowed to detain offenders so my original response is incorrect we do live somewhere where someone can lock 8 year olds in a closet. I was wrong about that.
Simply because I do not wish to make a citizens arrest or forcibly protect my property due to potential financial or physical harm to myself or my family does not remove my property rights. It may in certain situations decrease the likelihood of those rights being enforced meaning bad guys get away but I would still have the legal rights afforded by law. If you are saying that the only reason you are not a criminal is because you fear what the property owner may do and without that fear you will become a criminal than I guess you will be smashing my crap.
No, respect and common decency keep me from being a criminal. As well as all the lessons taught to me about how to be a decent human being that were taught to me by my parents.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks, just like these people and their kids who don't really give a damn about your rights.
Years ago, a work friend had his son and nephew who was living with him do some minor damage to a house under construction in their neighborhood. He was a bit more than upset, but responsed in a calm manner. He called in late to work the next morning and marched the young boys to the job site to meet and apologize to the foreman.
The forman was flabbergasted. Vandal damage is an expected cost and he had never had anyone bring their children accountable. My firend insisted they work off their damages. The youngest could not, he was too young but the nephew could. It took 2 weeks. At the end of the 2 weeks the formena offered him a job doing the same menial labor (cleaning up, picking small pieces of scrap, running boxes of nails and the like to the different sites). By the end of the summer the kid had acutally picked up some carpentry skills and the nexty summer got a good job (great by high school pay standards) building sheds on the reccomendation of the foreman.
Its not hard to teach kids right from wrong, but this kind of counter suite non sense is setting these little punks up to fail.
Yes, the man had a right, and to a degree, I would aurgue an obligation to attempt to hold the little brats until the cops arrived. By force? Of course not, but at that age it is quite possible to enforce a mob mentality by strength of personality. They knew they were wrong, and they knew they were busted, enforcing that belief is just a matter of deep bass in your voice and strong eye contact.
9:00 at night and your 8 year old is out on the town with a hammer?
mad_machine wrote: yes, I am ok with him holding the kids in a closet until the Police arrived. He did not harm them, he did not molest them (I am waiting for those charges) and I am sure the police arrived in a fairly reasonable amount of time. Holding onto 1 eight year old is hard enough... 4 would be like herding cats
If it were my kid who did the damage to the house, and got locked in the closet for it, I'd let the guy who did it know that I'm totally OK with him also leaving a few bruises if there is ever a next time. Yes, I want my son protected from injuries, but I want him protected even more from growing up to be a habitual felon.
MadScientistMatt wrote:mad_machine wrote: yes, I am ok with him holding the kids in a closet until the Police arrived. He did not harm them, he did not molest them (I am waiting for those charges) and I am sure the police arrived in a fairly reasonable amount of time. Holding onto 1 eight year old is hard enough... 4 would be like herding catsIf it were my kid who did the damage to the house, and got locked in the closet for it, I'd let the guy who did it know that I'm totally OK with him also leaving a few bruises if there is ever a next time. Yes, I want my son protected from injuries, but I want him protected even more from growing up to be a habitual felon.
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaap.
And an amen for good measure.
How did the police justify going over there and arresting the man, days later? Not legally, but on a human level. That must have sucked for them, knowing that they are helping to create 4 more criminals that they will have to deal with in the future.
I'm sorry. I'm not a Bob Costas that won't stand up for what he believes, or for what he owns. Those kids deserved to be locked up.
pinchvalve wrote: How did the police justify going over there and arresting the man, days later? Not legally, but on a human level. That must have sucked for them, knowing that they are helping to create 4 more criminals that they will have to deal with in the future.
They did that based on the statements of four snot nosed little punks. The guy will be lucky if they don't claim he touched them inappropriately.
I'd say the kids got off easy. I think most people would have picked up the smallest of them and use him as a club to beat the other ones with.
Sky_Render wrote: I'd say the kids got off easy. I think most people would have picked up the smallest of them and use him as a club to beat the other ones with.
Then call the cops and claim it was........BATMAN!
It looked to me like the arrest of the guy was not as much for the detaining of the kids (which certainly seems reasonable under the circumstances), but for rough handling of the kids. (It said something about grabbing one by the throat). Sort of like excessive force while being arrested. This is the primary danger of doing citizens arrests I have heard. Being sued after wards.
It is of course very easy to see how very difficult it would be NOT to be at least somewhat physical with the kids.
Question: If spanking a child (reasonably) is not technically illegal, can a stranger legally spank you child? Is it a guardianship issue?
If it's legal to spank spoiled brats if they're not yours, my hand is going to get tired.
aircooled wrote: It looked to me like the arrest of the guy was not as much for the detaining of the kids (which certainly seems reasonable under the circumstances), but for rough handling of the kids. (It said something about grabbing one by the throat). Sort of like excessive force while being arrested. This is the primary danger of doing citizens arrests I have heard. Being sued after wards. It is of course very easy to see how very difficult it would be NOT to be at least somewhat physical with the kids. Question: If spanking a child (reasonably) is not technically illegal, can a stranger legally spank you child? Is it a guardianship issue?
TWO DAYS LATER they arrest the guy for "roughing" the kids up. Kinda sounds to me that moms and pops got all stirred up, drilled the kids and came up with a story. I call bullE36 M3.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: My parents probably would have killed me and started over if I did that.
+1
GameboyRMH wrote:Kenny_McCormic wrote: My parents probably would have killed me and started over if I did that.+1
Mine wouldn't have....until I repayed my debt and cleaned up my mess. THEN they would have killed me and started over.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: My parents probably would have killed me and started over if I did that.
lol this.
Several years back a buddy had a CR500 Honda stolen out of an enclosed trailer in his back yard, the kids cut the lock. He called the police and got a shrug basically, so my bud did his own detective work and found out who it was. He calls the kid (who was 16 at the time) and told him 'either I get my bike back or I call the police'. The kid agrees, meets him to give the bike back and gets lippy with my bud who punched him in the gut. Maybe not the best reaction but sorta understandable.
Two days later, a City of Charleston cop shows up at my buddy's door in full regalia and starts in on him about the punch in the gut. Turns out this is the kid's dad. He threatens to arrest my bud for assault on a minor, my buddy responds that okay fine he will press charges for theft, the cop leaves.
We conferred, he contacts the chief of police and reports the incidents. The cop gets called into the chief's office, his story was that he was off duty and was there in his capacity as a father, not a police officer. He told the chief he was definitely going to press assault charges if my buddy pressed theft charges. Some father that is, covering the kid's ass like that. These parents sound very much like him.
One of my best friends in High School dad was a state trooper. If he'd have done something like this (or curmudgeon's example) I think he would have likely disappeared. His dad didn't tolerate that E36 M3. Hell, he'd have helped put the case together against his son to teach him a lesson.
I would love to see the parents held responsible for the cost of repairing the damage.
rainydave wrote: I would love to see the parents held responsible for the cost of repairing the damage.
Oh, they will. Which is why they are bitter and trying to press charges against the home owner.
In reply to Cone_Junky:
Thats my thoughts as well. As far as the "Threatening, traumatizing, and confinement" thing, since when did those in commission of a felony have any claim to rights other than Miranda?
Cone_Junky wrote:rainydave wrote: I would love to see the parents held responsible for the cost of repairing the damage.Oh, they will. Which is why they are bitter and trying to press charges against the home owner.
This. $40k split 4 ways is still a lot of money, if they can build some kind of a BS case against the guy they'll push hard to generate a situation like my bud faced.
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