I've fought leaks around the 2 entry doors on my shop since we bought the place. I have 2 steel inswing doors sitting on a concrete slab that I've bodged and tried to rebuild several times. The slab sticks out an inch or better beyond the sill, plus now the bottom ends of the frames have rotted out. I've replaced sills and minimized the leaks, but it still leaks when it rains. Today I was snooping around the net and discovered door sill pans. Well E36 M3, that's how they should have been built in the first place.
I've decided the easiest route is to pull the doors out and replace them both, this time with sill pans under them.
I'm thinking I'd like to go to outswing doors with captured hinges. It seems like they would be more secure and be easier to keep water tight, not to mention not intruding into the shop.
Any of you construction types think it would be an issue to pull an inswing door and replace it with an identical outswing door?
Also, is it worth special ordering the doors with deadbolt cutouts, or do you think locking doorknobs are enough? The shop is behind my house in a low-crime area. Never had any issues here even when left open, so I'm leaning toward just knobs.
In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :
Those are special order doors no matter what you do.
The frame will be hard to swap. It's most likely filled with concrete.
If you tap on it and it sounds kinda metallic and hollow, it's not filled. If you tap on it and it is completely solid and unyielding and hurts your knuckles, it's filled with concrete.
You can still replace it, but you will need a lot of time with a hammer drill to chip out the concrete, and you will want to order the frame drilled and dimpled for wedge anchors.
Get the dead bolts. They are too hard to add later.
BTW, an outswing door is more likely to leak than an inswing door. The door is closer to the outside of the frame, and weatherstripping doesn't fit well.
What's outside the door? No, not the backyard, is there an overhang? That would deflect rain away from the doors.
Hang on- to clarify....
You said steel doors. Do you mean residential style stamped doors in a wood frame (and wood wall), or commercial style flush steel doors in a metal frame (usually a block wall)?
I answered as if they were commercial steel doors in a block wall. Different answer if they are residential steel doors in a wood wall.
No overhangs, definitely part of the issue.
These are residential style, stamped steel with wood frame. You can buy them prehung at Home Depot for about $200 each.
Interetingly, the local HD stocks the inswing in deadbolt config and single-hole, but the outswing is only stocked in single-hole.
I'll come back to the thread and post a pic in a sec.
Pic of the one that doesn't leak as much:
I wonder how hard it would be to cut the lower 12" off the frame uprights and splice in new wood? If I cut that out and remove the sills I could put in still plates while I was in there.
The door itself is in decent shape.
From the picture it looks like the door is in a damp spot. An overhang as suggested above will help, along with whatever you can do to slope grade away from the door so water runs off.
Well, it is in a shaded spot, but the other one isn't and it's worse. Hard to tell in that shot but the top of the slab is 6" above grade there. Water running in isn't the problem, just rain running down the door and then in. Whoever built the shop wasn't big on details like proper flashing. It might have been the PO and some friends actually.
Gotcha. Ignore what I said earlier.
Wood frame doors are pretty easy to swap.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Any input on the idea of cutting out the bottom of the frames and patching in with cut sections from a door frame kit?
In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :
I've seen it done many times.
I think it always looks like E36 M3.
The door frame kit will cost almost as much as the prehung door.
Your leak is almost certainly coming under the threshold. Sill pan won't change that much not recessed into floor.
Your final installation will be reliant on sealant. With or without the pan.
I'm not too concerned about looks since it's the shop, more concerned about finally stopping the water intrusion. It can be SIGNIFICANT at the other door on a heavy rain. THis morning there's an area that's...10x10 still wet from last night's rain.
So you don't think the sill pan is worth it? How would you approach sealing under and around the sill? I assume silicone caulk under them, but what about the ends where they meet the wood frame? Well, assuming I splice in wood so it has something to seal to in the first place...
My garage pedestrian door frame is a tad rotted, going to replace 12" with a white plastic board that looks like wood. I reframed two 12 pane windows last spring with it, very nice! No rotting, no paint.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
I'm not too concerned about looks since it's the shop, more concerned about finally stopping the water intrusion. It can be SIGNIFICANT at the other door on a heavy rain. THis morning there's an area that's...10x10 still wet from last night's rain.
So you don't think the sill pan is worth it? How would you approach sealing under and around the sill? I assume silicone caulk under them, but what about the ends where they meet the wood frame? Well, assuming I splice in wood so it has something to seal to in the first place...
Caulk the crap out of it.
If you have no sill pan, you will be caulking the threshold and door frame to the concrete floor and wood framed wall.
If you have a sill pan, you will he caulking the sill pan to the concrete floor and wood framed wall.
The one big advantage of the sill pan...
The sill will flex over time as you step on it, etc. If the sill is sealed directly to the building, this flexing will eventually break the sealant bond. If you have the sill pan, that won't matter. The pan will be sealed to the floor, and the flexing of the sill won't be breaking the bond.
You talk about piecing together good wood into the existing frame. Just get a new prehung door and replace the old frame entirely. It's so easy it'll go faster than fixing what's there. The existing trim is even the standard brickmold that comes with most entry level prehung doors. The new door will come with that too. It's not worth piecing in a door frame.
Due to the constraints of shopping and travel I've decided to give the existing doors one more shot. I was able to Amazon a doorframe kit for $75, the same that the local HD charges. I've got a bunch of caulk and stuff here. THis way I can have it all delivered, and if it takes a little longer than hanging a door.....well, what else have I got to do? If it doesn't work I'll get the doors, but the $200 ones don't come with the brick mold. Which is fine, I've been replacing rotten brick mold areound the property with the PVC version anyway.
