Shouldn't a CPO car be... nice?

The next chapter in the ongoing saga of helping my girlfriend buy a car. She's decided on an RX-8. Ideally would like to find an 06+, single owner, roughly 30k on the odo, for $mid-teens. She also likes the idea of buying from a reputable dealer who she can go to if she has any issues. A local Nissan/Mazda dealership has a Certified Pre-Owned '06, 35k miles, that we went to see yesterday, pretty much expecting to buy it.

A couple months ago I helped my grandparents get a CPO Acura TL from the dealer literally across the street from the Mazda place we went to. That car was gorgeously detailed with no hint that there would be anything to worry about.

We looked at this RX-8, and they'd hardly bothered to detail it at all. They Armor-All'ed the engine cover and upholstery, but that was about it. The paint was chipped, exterior trim was loose, the rear bumper cover wasn't quite aligned. Inside, the cup holders had dried crud in then, there were stains in the ceiling, the roof liner was sticking out below the rubber of the door seal (I think the detailers shoved the seals up when wiping them off), and the rear cup holder had been chewed on by a dog. Nothing really bad. I would expect wear like this on a private party car. But I would expect a dealer car to be detailed better and a CPO car to be completely immaculate.

Then there were the tires. They were "Nankang" brand. I told the sales guy I had never heard of that brand and didn't like them. This is a sports car, we plan to use it as such, and it should have proper name-brand performance tires. He basically told us, "You can (spend extra money to) do what you want with the tires (but we're not going to change them)."

Then we test drove it, and it shifted funny. The other two RX-8's we drove had nice smooth shifting. This one kinda clunked or crunched into gear. It felt like the synchro's had been worn down like how mine feel on my 140k '94 Miata. Then the shift gates were weird. 1/2 and 3/4 were spaced appropriately, but 5/6 were way too close 3/4. Putting the car into 6th, I kept worrying I was sliding it into 4th.

Needless to say, we didn't buy it. But we were really pissed off. We went expecting and wanting to buy a car. I figure when a car is labeled as Certified Pre-Owned it should be a forgone conclusion that it is as perfect as a used car can be and the only thing to worry about will be agreeing on the price. Hell, given the things I found, I was a bit doubtful that they even did the inspection and didn't just slap a 'CPO' sticker on it to jack the price up.

CPO doesn't mean much at all from what I've seen. I honestly think it means that they certify that it was in fact pre-owned.

Your expectations are too high. It's all part of buying used.

If you don't want to look at junk, buy a new car.

zomby woof wrote: Your expectations are too high. It's all part of buying used. If you don't want to look at junk, buy a new car.

Is this sarcasm?

I guess it's kinda like the Energy Star ratings, they'll slap it on anything nowadays. What you had was a pretty terrible experience, enough to justify boycotting that dealer for a very long time. Certified in the public imagination nowadays is a guarantee of quality, nothing less.

that care definatly certified that it was a car and a used one at that. Be thankfull you ran far away

Report it to Mazda USA. They back up the warranty on CPO. They also collect a fee from the selling dealer to "cover" any future repairs.

One thing you must understand about cpo cars is due to the success of such programs most of them are lease turn ins or repos bought from auction. I don't think i need to explain to you that these type of owners aren't the kindest to a car or keep up with them as they should. A lot of reconditioning usually has to occur to get them up to snuff..

mtn wrote: CPO doesn't mean much at all from what I've seen. I honestly think it means that they certify that it was in fact pre-owned.

Stole the words from my mouth--"yes, this car was indeed owned by someone previously"

As a detailer, it pisses me off that they couldn't have given the thing a decent cleaning. I realize it's not cost-effective to do a 7 hour detail, but a decent interior cleaning and a good wash aren't much to ask of something that represents the standards of your business.

I spent 8 hours detailing my 00 Civic sedan beater after it was bought from a small used car lot. At least they gave it a thorough cleaning before it went on the lot.

Yeah and i think it goes without saying that if the thing shifted funny/showed any other sign of neglect or abuse, you probobly don't want it. Rotary engines under that care have a nasty habit of eating themselves. Whats to say while the previous owner was beating it senseless while a dog ate the rear cup holders, he/she wasn't checking the oil and ran it low a few times?

To me it works like this: You plan to charge me a premium for this car. As such, I expect you to pick the premium examples that come in, and do premium care prepare them for sale. If you're going to spend minimum money and effort preparing it for sale, charge me a minimal markup.

I can go to any back lot dealer and get a car in this condition with a half-assed detailing job, that shifts funny. Don't brag to me about how you're the "Largest brand dealer in 10 states", post letters from customers on your wall about what great service you provide, orchestrate a conversation of two sales reps to walk behind us saying, "A CPO car, nice... they really won't have any issues to worry about then", and then try to pass off a dirty, scratched car that shifts funny.

We were thinking of writing a letter to the dealer about our experience. I like the idea of writing to Mazda USA better.

Oh, this place is also supposed to be a MazdaSpeed dealer.

We also really didn't like the sales droid. He knew jack E36 M3, but then managed to have an ego. He admitted knowing pretty much nothing about the car in question... even though he actually OWNED one.

Salanis wrote: We also really didn't like the sales droid. He knew jack E36 M3, but then managed to have an ego. He admitted knowing pretty much nothing about the car in question... even though he actually OWNED one.

We (my wife and I) made a point to praise our salesman to his bosses because of his knowledge and professionalism when we bought her new Fit. I mean, I knew everything he was telling us, but as a retail rat, it's great to see someone who actually knows their product and is a professional.

I drafted a letter to the dealership. I think I'll come up with a version of this to send to Mazda USA. I think this has a good balance of politeness and "up yours":

Dear Sir or Ma’am, I accompanied my girlfriend to your dealership on Saturday, September 11 to help her buy a car. She had planned to purchase a Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) 2006 RX-8 from your lot. However, we had a terrible experience with an unhelpful salesman on a sub-par quality car. I race a Miata, belong to the Mazda Speed competition program, and knowing you to be a Mazda Speed dealer, expected a higher level of quality from you. When being asked to pay a premium price on a CPO vehicle, I would expect a prime example. Firstly, there were obvious cosmetic issues with the vehicle. It had not been properly detailed. There was extensive chipped paint and loose trim on the exterior. The interior had dried crud in the cup holders, stains on the headliner, and a dog had chewed on plastic in the back seat area. It had “Nankang” brand tires; a budget tire not intended for performance use. The RX-8 is a performance car. When I pointed these out to the sales rep, he informed us that we could, “… do whatever we want with the tires,” and explained that most people buying an RX-8, “…just want to show it off in their parking lot at their office.” The clear implication was that those were the cheapest tires you could find and he would not work with us to install quality tires. Worst of all was the actual test drive. We have tested a few other RX-8s. This CPO car shifted horribly. The transmission was clunked into gear. It felt like the synchro gears were worn like the ones on my 150,000 mile, racing Miata. Additionally, the shift gates were not evenly spaced, and it made finding the correct gear difficult. The driving issues combined with the, frankly, half-assed detailing make me wonder if this car was truly inspected. Our experience drove us away from your dealership, when we came planning to buy. I understand you are a new dealership, and would suggest that these practices will not help the longevity of your business.

Ceritified Pre-Berkeleyed?

CPO or not the fundamental problem with this scenario is that a dealer is involved. I sold vehicles for a living for a year or so, and even in the comparatively honest world of a multi-line American-European motorcycle dealer it's a slimy business.

Assuming that I know about cars, follow the market, and can spot a turd - I'll take a car from a private party any day. If you show up and it's a hinky deal - walk away. You show up and it's a one owner car that has obviously belonged to a mechanically sensitive person who keeps themselves and their property in good shape - you buy. It's easy.

Oh, for anyone living in the greater Sacramento area, this was Elk Grove Mazda/Nissan.

Salanis wrote: I drafted a letter to the dealership. I think I'll come up with a version of this to send to Mazda USA. I think this has a good balance of politeness and "up yours":

Dear Sir or Ma’am, I accompanied my girlfriend to your dealership on Saturday, September 11 to help her buy a car. She had planned to purchase a Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) 2006 RX-8 from your lot. However, we had a terrible experience with an unhelpful salesman on a sub-par quality car. I race a Miata, belong to the Mazda Speed competition program, and knowing you to be a Mazda Speed dealer, expected a higher level of quality from you. When being asked to pay a premium price on a CPO vehicle, I would expect a prime example. Firstly, there were obvious cosmetic issues with the vehicle. It had not been properly detailed. There was extensive chipped paint and loose trim on the exterior. The interior had dried crud in the cup holders, stains on the headliner, and a dog had chewed on plastic in the back seat area. It had “Nankang” brand tires; a budget tire not intended for performance use. The RX-8 is a performance car. When I pointed these out to the sales rep, he informed us that we could, “… do whatever we want with the tires,” and explained that most people buying an RX-8, “…just want to show it off in their parking lot at their office.” The clear implication was that those were the cheapest tires you could find and he would not work with us to install quality tires. Worst of all was the actual test drive. We have tested a few other RX-8s. This CPO car shifted horribly. The transmission was clunked into gear. It felt like the synchro gears were worn like the ones on my 150,000 mile, racing Miata. Additionally, the shift gates were not evenly spaced, and it made finding the correct gear difficult. The driving issues combined with the, frankly, half-assed detailing make me wonder if this car was truly inspected. Our experience drove us away from your dealership, when we came planning to buy. I understand you are a new dealership, and would suggest that these practices will not help the longevity of your business.

Good letter, but I wouldn't use "half-assed". Try sloppy, depthless, careless, non-existent.... But I'd avoid the half-assed, although it is hard to get the point across without such language.

mtn wrote: Good letter, but I wouldn't use "half-assed". Try sloppy, depthless, careless, non-existent.... But I'd avoid the half-assed, although it is hard to get the point across without such language.

Yeah, I was debating on that. I figured the rest of the letter was formal, and the minor cursing conveys how bad the job was. But maybe it is too informal. It wasn't "non existent" because they'd done some... but they clearly had not done a complete job.

Careless, maybe. Perhaps: sloppy, unprofessional, incomplete. Or maybe "careless and incomplete" or "incomplete and unprofessional".

Well, look at it this way, because they did almost no detailing/pre-purchase prepping on this car, it looked like crap and therefore put you guard to REALLY go over the car with a fine tooth comb, so to speak.

As far as a Honda saleperson being as professional, or more professional that the average....it's my experience with Honda dealers and their salepeople that they seem to have a requirement that the folks are VERY knowledgeable about what they sell. The cars COULD sell themselves, but most of the time the salesfolks take the time to point out EVERY feature as you consider your purchase.

CPO....like "factory warranties", only as good as the dealer that sells them or stands behind them.

integraguy wrote: As far as a Honda saleperson being as professional, or more professional that the average....it's my experience with Honda dealers and their salepeople that they seem to have a requirement that the folks are VERY knowledgeable about what they sell.

Wait... what? Honda hasn't come up yet. Acura came up, and they were good. We've been to multiple car dealers, this was far and away the worst we'd been to (aside from the crappy used-car lots). We actually liked the other nearby Mazda dealer, and really liked the sales guy we dealt with. Also had good experiences at the Ford dealer we checked out, and pretty good experience with another local Subaru/Nissan/Toyota family.

Even without going over it with a fine toothed comb: I noticed the tires before looking in the interior (I'm a GRM guy; good tires are paramount), and the shifter really was bad. I had trouble figuring out if I was in the correct gear.

Not immediately relevant to your issues, but I've never had a good experience at a Mazda dealership. Don't know why, but every single one I've been to has been terrible (sales and service).

Shame, because I like the brand, and if I stay FWD, I'd probably be looking for a 3 hatchback to replace the Protegé.

The_Pirate wrote: Not immediately relevant to your issues, but I've never had a good experience at a Mazda dealership. Don't know why, but every single one I've been to has been terrible (sales and service).

The other local Mazda dealer (Roseville) was quite good. Don't know if that's because it's also Subaru, but whatever. The sales guy there was the best we've dealt with: young and enthusiastic, reasonably knowledgeable without trying to show it off, knows when to shut up, knows when to suggest something else we might like. One of only two car salesman to give follow-up cars that were actually appreciated ("That RX-8 sold, but we just got in another one. Here are the details.").

Actually his higher-ups were a bit annoying. When we're talking about RX-8's, WRX's, and used STi's - explaining that we planned to do real performance driving... and he doesn't have any, in so he's suggesting Legacies and base Imprezzas on all-season tires.

mtn wrote:

zomby woof wrote: Your expectations are too high. It's all part of buying used. If you don't want to look at junk, buy a new car.

Is this sarcasm?

No.

This is his second thread on being pissed at seeing less than excellent used cars.

If you're looking at used, you WILL see stuff you consider to be junk.

zomby woof wrote:

mtn wrote:

zomby woof wrote: Your expectations are too high. It's all part of buying used. If you don't want to look at junk, buy a new car.

Is this sarcasm?

No. This is his second thread on being pissed at seeing less than excellent used cars. If you're looking at used, you WILL see stuff you consider to be junk.

Gotcha, I misinterpreted that as "the only cars that are not junk are new".

Too bad man, screw the dealer, buy it elsewhere. I'd definitely use this as a learning experience to convince your gf not to look solely at CPO cars and save a few bucks going private party anyway. When you get a better car for less money (not as if they would actually honor any actual warranty during your 'performance driving' anyway) do big donuts in their parking lot with it. Write the letter to Mazda, some business suck.